2061 réponses à ce sujet

[ComedicSociopathy]

So, there's no conventionally healing in the game.

 

OK.

 

So now what? What is anyone here going to do about it? Are you not going to buy the game? Are you going to want for a mod to change it? Are you going to wait a for gamer scores to come out? 

 

What the are you going to do about it beside just talk about it?

 

For me personally, while I'm not thrilled by this new direction I'm not going to complain about it, because the point of complaining in the first place is to change something you don't like, and since this game is about to come out in a month or so my complaining won't change anything. 

 

There's just no point to it, beside the love to complain and argue. 

[PhroXenGold]

Forcing "balanced" parties in a single-player RPG is a deal-breaker. I love my all-warrior / all-rogue parties. Leave the balanced party nonsense to mmo's.

 

While I certainly agree you should be able to take single-class parties, I do feel that a certain amount of balance in roles should be required - so some of your warriors are more focused on tanking, others on crowd control/buffing and some on damage. A party where everyone is focused purely on hitting things as hard as they can should run into problems.

[In Exile]

Clearly, the absence of healing spells seems to be the consequence of other previous decisions related to the gameplay experience (rather than the contrary). I suppose that makes sense since health doesn't regenerate and that mages are allowed to cast spells between combats, so, even with a relatively long cooldown, it would have been easy to sabotage the system. In my point of vue, the question is not why can't we use healing' spells anymore but what's the point of limiting the possibility of healing in general. Perhaps the goal is to force us to be more strategic during battle? Or to be sure that, whatever we do in the beginning of the game, we will always be forced to come back to camp regularly, and thus, stay in the right path (story wise) without the possibility of gaining too much XP too fast?
Either way, the barrier spell does seems to be an alternative to the healing spell, with the "advantage" of be only usefull during battle and, thus, not be a threat to the system of "health doesn't regenerate, deal with it".

The goal is to make combat less of a grind. If the developers know that you're really squishy then they can design combat to be be different from standing around and hacking.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Icy Magebane:  No, if you get hit the timer of Barrier takes a hit. 

 

I was actually specifically watching for that when I watched the demo.  When the Inquisitor got hit - his Barrier dropped a chunk, and then began decreasing at the same speed as his allies. 

[Gannayev of Dreams]

What the are you going to do about it beside just talk about it?

 

For me personally, while I'm not thrilled by this new direction I'm not going to complain about it, because the point of complaining in the first place is to change something you don't like, and since this game is about to come out in a month or so my complaining won't change anything. 

 

There's just no point to it, beside the love to complain and argue. 

 

The point... in a very general sense, is to give feedback which might effect their design directions in the next game.  As a very successful franchise we all know there is going to be a next game.  While ultimately they're going to make the decisions they feel are best for the game, and have access to a perspective a player doesn't have, they can and do use feedback from the community.  Much of the changes from DA2 to DA:I were from such feedback.

[TheOriginalEddy]

It could be just the way I like to play, but I like this change. I hear people say they will have to travel back halfway through a dungeon to get potions, but you don't have to?

I appreciate it depends on how you like to play, but maybe that just means you need to change the way you tackle the next combat when you are low on potions.

I remember enjoying the challenge of the deep roads in DAO, I chose not to use a healer mage throughout whole play through and rely on potions. There was one point where I had two characters on critical health and only 2 potions. I could have used one on each and then have none left. Instead I used one on my tank, saved the other. The other character was a rogue (my warden) that I switched to a bow to avoid getting into combat, I could then save potion for tank in next battle. Rogue could then sneak and hide if he got into trouble (actually can't remember if this possible once in combat but I'm sure I would have if I could). I desperately had to search bodies for potions after battles - it was such a relief to find them.

Isn't there also opportunities to craft more potions if necessary?

I enjoyed this level of difficulty and having to treat the situation like a puzzle to get through.

[In Exile]

Mechanically HP is meaningless when compared with say shield-like barrier abilities. Low HP has no meaning other than as a threshold of being closer to 0 and incapacitation. A character with 1. HP can do all the things that one with 100 can do.

Healing might be different from just a shield or damage mitigation ability if there were increasing penalties that attached to falling HP values. Then heal would create new gameplay effects, especially on a longer cool down.

But right now HP is just another part of the DPS race.

[Iakus]

So, there's no conventionally healing in the game.

 

OK.

 

So now what? What is anyone here going to do about it? Are you not going to buy the game? Are you going to want for a mod to change it? Are you going to wait a for gamer scores to come out? 

 

What the are you going to do about it beside just talk about it?

 

For me personally, while I'm not thrilled by this new direction I'm not going to complain about it, because the point of complaining in the first place is to change something you don't like, and since this game is about to come out in a month or so my complaining won't change anything. 

 

There's just no point to it, beside the love to complain and argue. 

"What are you going to do about it?" is not a good way to ask for constructive feedback.  Nor to address concerns people may have for a product.

 

If anything, that's how you alienate people.

[ComedicSociopathy]

The point... in a very general sense, is to give feedback which might effect their design directions in the next game.  As a very successful franchise we all know there is going to be a next game.  While ultimately they're going to make the decisions they feel are best for the game, and have access to a perspective a player doesn't have, they can and do use feedback from the community.  Much of the changes from DA2 to DA:I were from such feedback.

 

But the game hasn't even come out yet. How can you give constructive feedback if you haven't even played the game yet? You don't know if having limited potions will always force you to retreat back to a outpost to restock. You don't know that in-combat companion resurrection will be properly able to replace healing abilities like Revive. And you know if their in-dungeon alternatives to healing like lyrium veins will exist or not?

 

It's like trying to properly give feedback about a burger and only knowing that there's cheese in it and not actually tasting it for yourself. 

[Iakus]

It could be just the way I like to play, but I like this change. I hear people say they will have to travel back halfway through a dungeon to get potions, but you don't have to?

I appreciate it depends on how you like to play, but maybe that just means you need to change the way you tackle the next combat when you are low on potions.

I remember enjoying the challenge of the deep roads in DAO, I chose not to use a healer mage throughout whole play through and rely on potions. There was one point where I had two characters on critical health and only 2 potions. I could have used one on each and then have none left. Instead I used one on my tank, saved the other. The other character was a rogue (my warden) that I switched to a bow to avoid getting into combat, I could then save potion for tank in next battle. Rogue could then sneak and hide if he got into trouble (actually can't remember if this possible once in combat but I'm sure I would have if I could). I desperately had to search bodies for potions after battles - it was such a relief to find them.

Isn't there also opportunities to craft more potions if necessary?

I enjoyed this level of difficulty and having to treat the situation like a puzzle to get through.

part of the whole potion ithing is supposed to encourage players to "choose their battles"

 

Okay, so how does one do that?  Say you're in a dungeon and there's darkspawn ahead of you.  Can you go around them?  Can you set off a trap they're conveniently standing on?  Lure a demon to them and have them fight it out?

 

If so, how is xp and loot handled for those situations?

[Iakus]

But the game hasn't even come out yet. How can you give constructive feedback if you haven't even played the game yet? You don't know if having limited potions will always force you to retreat back to a outpost to restock. You don't know that in-combat companion resurrection will be properly able to replace healing abilities like Revive. And you know if their in-dungeon alternatives to healing like lyrium veins will exist or not?

 

It's like trying to properly give feedback about a burger and only knowing that there's cheese in it and not actually tasting it for yourself. 

So, maybe they could give us more information on this and ease concerns?  Like they've done on a couple of things already?

 

Just a thought.

[Jester]

Mechanically HP is meaningless when compared with say shield-like barrier abilities. Low HP has no meaning other than as a threshold of being closer to 0 and incapacitation. A character with 1. HP can do all the things that one with 100 can do.

That's simply not true, because those abilities are temporary, while health is permanent. 

Also, those abilities have to be actively used, contrary to health which is a passive statistic.

[In Exile]

part of the whole potion ithing is supposed to encourage players to "choose their battles"

Okay, so how does one do that? Say you're in a dungeon and there's darkspawn ahead of you. Can you go around them? Can you set off a trap they're conveniently standing on? Lure a demon to them and have them fight it out?

If so, how is xp and loot handled for those situations?

You can run. Players never run anymore but not murdering everything in a genocidal run to get maximum XP used to me an option.

[ComedicSociopathy]

"What are you going to do about it?" is not a good way to ask for constructive feedback.  Nor to address concerns people may have for a product.

 

If anything, that's how you alienate people.

 

I'm sorry if I alienated you. Doing such a thing is highly improper and ridicidous on my part.

 

Once again, I'm sorry, Iakus .Will try to do better next time. 

 

I was sincerely asking "What are you going to do about it?" Are we going to create petition to Bioware to change this system? Kind of like the Take Kack Mass Effect 3 campaign? Our we all going to collectively not buy the game in solidarity? 

 

What can be done in this forum to change the no healing mechanic? 

[Traycor]

This was basically the direction taken by Baldur's Gate and I loved it. You had stacks of potions of lots of healing spells, but everything was a limited resource that you had to manage and had to rest to regain.

 

It worked wonderful back then and I love that feel.

[AlanC9]

The point... in a very general sense, is to give feedback which might effect their design directions in the next game.  As a very successful franchise we all know there is going to be a next game.  While ultimately they're going to make the decisions they feel are best for the game, and have access to a perspective a player doesn't have, they can and do use feedback from the community.  Much of the changes from DA2 to DA:I were from such feedback.

Sure. But feedback today for a game that we won't play for weeks isn't going to be taken seriously. Nor should it be.

We can discuss the theoretical implications of the design plenty, but without seeing the actual implementation there's nothing here for Bio to see.

[In Exile]

That's simply not true, because those abilities are temporary, while health is permanent.
Also, those abilities have to be actively used, contrary to health which is a passive statistic.

We're not talking about health. We're talking about healing. A times ability that prevents up to 100 damage is no different from a timed ability that adds 100 HP, and since (without avoid skills) HP constantly declines in combat, HP is mechanically indistinguishable from these other skills. Now healing restores the HP pool so the proper math would have some conversion factor that accounts for the relative utility but that's all just detail not substance.

[AlanC9]

If so, how is xp and loot handled for those situations?

We can always hope that combat XP just goes away. I'm OK with loot. Grinding combat should have some benefit for the folks who want to do it.

[ComedicSociopathy]

So, maybe they could give us more information on this and ease concerns?  Like they've done on a couple of things already?

 

Just a thought.

 

Ok. That sounds like an idea. Lets all leave here and go to the developers tweeter accounts and ask for them to explain more things about the game. 

[In Exile]

This was basically the direction taken by Baldur's Gate and I loved it. You had stacks of potions of lots of healing spells, but everything was a limited resource that you had to manage and had to rest to regain.

It worked wonderful back then and I love that feel.

D&D healing is different. With rare exceptions you couldn't really keep your healing up in battle. You usually exhausted spells quickly and used resting to restore spells then casted them afterward. This why BG 2 just let you autocast left over healing to save time.

[In Exile]

We can always hope that combat XP just goes away.

Given the whinning with ME2 I doubt it. Even though XP combat is a stupid RPG mechanic.

Killing bears teaches me how to lay bricks better? The ****?

[yullyuk]

my question here is, does each character have there own supply of potions or is it a set lot shared between the group?

[Wires_From_The_Wall]

 

 

 

 

Potions and grenades: limited.  May have to hike all the way back to camp to get more, unless they can be found as loot.

 

 

 

There are more serious and relevant problems I'd say. Healing is game mechanic and identity both.  Something for you to do in combat besides just  whackin them enemies. Something you - are - besides a whacker of enemies. To get rid of it is stripping one (well loved) mechanic from game and an idenity  from your players. It is mind numbing and ridiculous people are finding ways sugar coat this away by talking about potions. 

 

It is one step further from RPGs and RPG combat, one step more towards reactionary designed-for-pads action.

[In Exile]

There are more serious and relevant problems I'd say. Healing is game mechanic and identity both. Something for you to do in combat besides just whackin them enemies. Something you - are - besides a whacker of enemies. To get rid of it is stripping one (well loved) mechanic from game and an idenity from your players. It is mind numbing and ridiculous people are finding ways sugar coat this away by talking about potions.

It is one step further from RPGs and RPG combat, one step more towards reactionary designed-for-pads action.

Lots if great rulesets don't have healing. Just like lots of awesome rulesets don't have XP for combat.

[Gannayev of Dreams]

But the game hasn't even come out yet. How can you give constructive feedback if you haven't even played the game yet? You don't know if having limited potions will always force you to retreat back to a outpost to restock. You don't know that in-combat companion resurrection will be properly able to replace healing abilities like Revive. And you know if their in-dungeon alternatives to healing like lyrium veins will exist or not?

 

It's like trying to properly give feedback about a burger and only knowing that there's cheese in it and not actually tasting it for yourself. 

 

Feedback based on material released may be inaccurate because the whole picture isn't seen, but that doesn't mean it is meaningless.  At the very least it forms the baseline expectation from the fandom which the proper experience will be measured against.  And IF those expectations are particularly erroneous in their assumptions and criticisms, then it is actually very valuable for BioWare to consider.  It tells their marketing team what areas of exposure and publicity they need to correct to avoid such misinformation in the future.

 

There is no harm in discussing things.  Even if you're wrong.  Complaints might annoy some people but they're an important part of the discussion.  In my opinion.  The trick is not to take them personally, and not always to assume you can somehow solve that person's problem.