It's a bit of gameplay practicality. DA:O's gameplay was design around healing, therefore the player needed access to healing spells early, even if the lore doesn't support it.
All the things the lore don't support is starting to become one very long list, though.
Still, as I said. If we get an in-game explanation for it, its perfectly ok. All that is needed is Vivienne or someone saying that healing spells haven't worked since the Fade tore open. One line, really.
I don't get why you keep bringing up Merril as some good example. She is arguably the dumbest character in Thedas. No wonder she can't master a simple healing spell.
Because she was a talented Mage who managed to pull of some impressive magics despite her flighty nature. She's obviously got a lot of skill and ability considering what she can do, but was unable to Healing magic. That's not a slam against her, it just shows that not all mages have that gift. Just like how not every composer can reach the levels of Bache or Mozart.
That's probably the case, but tbh this is a very poor justification for healing spells not being in the game... a hermit like Solas would probably have needed to know some kind of healing spells to stay alive in the woods for so long
And yet he apparently has gotten on just fine without them. We know he's a Rift mage, we Know Vivienne was in line to be First Enchanter and Dorian is from Tevinter and yet none of them have this ability. It would suggest that some Mages just are not able to do that kind of magic.
What will you do when the game tells you this isn't what the Templars have been doing at all? Because it will.
I presented one possibility that fits with the information we currently have, It's not the only valid explanation. For all you know the Inquisitors connection to the fade makes casting Healing magic in close proximity a problem. For all you know the very spirits that used to help Spirit Healers were adversely impacted by the explosion that begins the game. You will just have to wait and see.
They probably should... I could have sworn I heard something about a beneficial ability that could also help enemies if they got caught in it... was it the grenades they were talking about? Unless I imagined this... that is also a possibility.
Yes they should. Otherwise they would be intelligent, and probably sentient grenades.
I see Rawgrim still can't grasp the fact that DA:O and DA2's healing gameplay was not canon lore.
I see Rawgrim still can't grasp the fact that DA:O and DA2's healing gameplay was not canon lore.
We see it used as a level 1 spell in both games. All the time. That makes the spell canon.
And it was only "healing gameplay" if you, as a player, chose to spam it.
I see Rawgrim still can't grasp the fact that DA:O and DA2's healing gameplay was not canon lore.
Should "canon" and "lore" even be used in the same sentence if we're talking about this franchise? I mean, just what part of it hasn't been changed or ignored?
I see this newest change as mechanical in nature, nothing more... there is no lore justification for not having healing spells. The devs even said long ago that their focus was to change DA's combat to make it more challenging and "strategic." Lore never entered their minds when they made these choices... at least, they never told us it did but they did tell us the exact opposite... if the devs never claimed that lore was a factor, why are the fans doing that?
All the things the lore don't support is starting to become one very long list, though.
Still, as I said. If we get an in-game explanation for it, its perfectly ok. All that is needed is Vivienne or someone saying that healing spells haven't worked since the Fade tore open. One line, really.
Well, yeah, there's a huge amount of gameplay that doesn't fit the lore. Why do you seem surprised at this? Have you never played an RPG - computer or PnP - before? Gameplay is always a massive abstraction of the lore/story. Otherwise, well, it wouldn't be fun.
We see it used as a level 1 spell in both games. All the time. That makes the spell canon.
And it was only "healing gameplay" if you, as a player, chose to spam it.
And ignorance Is still bliss, it seems.
Well, yeah, there's a huge amount of gameplay that doesn't fit the lore. Why do you seem surprised at this? Have you never played an RPG - computer or PnP - before? Gameplay is always a massive abstraction of the lore/story. Otherwise, well, it wouldn't be fun.
Actually I have played plenty, and most of them base gameplay around the lore. Its actually the norm. I also work for an rpg company as a designer, author, and lore-writer.
And ignorance Is still bliss, it seems.
So you are saying that everything we have seen being done in the previous games should be tossed aside, and ignored. Just because gameplay might change later. Gottcha.
So you are saying that everything we have seen being done in the previous games should be tossed aside, and ignored. Just because gameplay might change later. Gottcha.
I'm saying that you've chosen to ignore that it, lorewise, has been written as exhausting as hell to heal and rare. You choosing to say "DAO and DA2's" healing methods are "canon" is ignorance.
Do continue to swim around in it, though. I'm certain you'll get somewhere.
I'm saying that you've chosen to ignore that it, lorewise, has been written as exhausting as hell to heal and rare. You choosing to say "DAO and DA2's" healing methods is ignorance.
Do continue to swim around in it.
Actually I did say that the healing spells were exhausting to the mage. And DA2 did it "the most right" with the long cooldowns for the spell.
Ignorant about that fact, arn't you? Its further back in the thread.
So since I actually agreed with you on that fact....you are swimming in it with me, arn't you?
Folks, as I stated before, DAI is ultimately a game and not a book. With that being understood, even with this being BioWare, they will never let lore, story, or any other reason cause a detriment to the fun and experience of the game itself. Dedicated healing, for all intents and purposes, is bad for variety, flexibility, and is an unoriginal and stringent crutch to lean on. Much like in an MMORPG, the entire "purpose" an a healer is to keep the rest of the party alive because of their own role limitations. This is why the holy trinity in a lot of ways is a terrible and antiquated system by today's standards.
The entire philosophy of being dependent entirely on a healer to survive an encounter is a limitation and a narrow approach to role playing itself. By eradicating this unnecessary limit, we are now much more open to play with more variety and options in the roles and classes we choose. It leads to a scenario where we have to be more aware of our health pools and can't depend on a dedicated healer to resolve every dispute. This provides challenge, customization, new tactical opportunities, and allows other roles to be more fleshed out without needlessly being underpowered to legitimize a healer.
The only individual who should really be upset are those who generally prefer to be a dedicated healer. If you don't like to tank or deal damage, your role has been largely removed. That being said, there are still plenty of support abilities and opportunities that will be vital to a party's survival. You just won't be leaning entirely on health bars to survive an encounter now. It's unfortunate for fans of healing, but overall this is an amazing gameplay move on BioWare's part. It will only make the combat that much more impactful and memorable.
Very very good points Revan. A lot of players do play for the immersion, story, and the rich lore too, though.
Very very good points Revan. A lot of players do play for the immersion, story, and the rich lore too, though.
I do not disagree with that assertion. The immersion, story, and lore are largely what make BioWare games so amazing to begin with. However, BioWare is still in the business of making games, and they will compromise that experience only so far in order to maintain decisions or choices they may have made half a decade ago that don't necessarily make sense today. It's not a perfect solution, but knowing BioWare they likely will have a valid reason to explain this "anomaly" with DAI to put this uncertainty and concern to rest.
Very very good points Revan. A lot of players do play for the immersion, story, and the rich lore too, though.
That's understandable, but it's very easy for an RPG player (and by RPG here I mean role-playing video games) to have developed a gaming background wherein taking the strict interpretation of gameplay leads to a nonsensical experience, and so they don't do so. The game can tell me all it wants, for example, that Sephiroth is going to destroy the world with Meteor, but it also doesn't stop me from breeding Gold Chocobos instead of going to the Northern Crater to stop him. Enemies have inflated HP pools to balance increased damage numbers from players leveling up and wanting to see tangible stat progression expressed by those numbers. Monsters drop money.
In other words, many players have been conditioned to accept certain gameplay conventions as a sort of pseudo-reality. How else to explain characters in Final Fantasy dying and no one using a Phoenix Down on them? Items and abilities are I think the most central of these accepted conventions wherein devs can really bend the rules on lore and not evoke a negative response from players.
I do not disagree with that assertion. The immersion, story, and lore are largely what make BioWare games so amazing to begin with. However, BioWare is still in the business of making games, and they will compromise that experience only so far in order to maintain decisions or choices they may have made half a decade ago that don't necessarily make sense today. It's not a perfect solution, but knowing BioWare they likely will have a valid reason to explain this "anomaly" with DAI to put this uncertainty and concern to rest.
They are making games for EA now. That is where the difference is. And most of the people that were involved with the games that put Bioware on the map have left.
The removal of healing spells is disappointing to me simply because I like to play the role of a healer. And honestly, after reading more than a few pages of this thread, I still don't see the difference in limited healing potions and limited spells. What is the point of a grenade that heals the party when that could easily have been a group heal? As many have suggested, just go the Souls games route and limit heal spells to a specific number. This could easily be tied into how exhausting healing magic is anyway. Or, have it tied to a long cooldown and high fatigue system.
To balance out an archaic system:
Mages can't heal
Rogues can't pick locks
Warriors can't pull threat.
Because when everyone is special...no one is.
Considering I've been a huge fan of Dragon Age Origins and II, I always had a healer or two in my team and I was planning to have at least one for Inquisition. Knowing that this game is becoming more and more like some kind of Mass Effect with swords is a huge deal breaker for me.
Considering I've been a huge fan of Dragon Age Origins and II, I always had a healer or two in my team and I was planning to have at least one for Inquisition. Knowing that this game is becoming more and more like some kind of Mass Effect with swords is a huge deal breaker for me.
Really? 
Yes, really. The barriers now feel more like the Mass Effect handled them. It's like they're trying to merge both battle systems and trying to attract a different fanbase. This game to me doesn't feel like the two first games from what I've seen through the medias. The story seems interesting, but the gameplay so far is a huge turnoff for me.
I don't think the lack of healing spells is in any way related to lore. It's mechanical.
Health is a long term resource in Inquisition. Mana/Stamina is a short term resource. This is the opposite of many traditional Rpg systems where mana/spells are a long term resource and health can be regain quickly and cheaply. Final Fantasy and old D&D use this system so they have healing spells. In DAO and DAII both Mana and health were short term resources that would recharge quickly so they could also have healing spells.
In Inquisition traditional Healing spells that run off mana would break the system as it would turn health into a short term resource.
Placing a long cool down on the spell would not work as it might force people to wait to heal. Having to wait 5 mins to in real time just so you can heal up your party dose not sound fun. It sounds like a Facebook game.
There are three ways that healing is being implemented. all of which keep health a long term resource.
1. You can give a limited number of temporary hit points.- Mages have barrier which gives temp hp the and warriors also have a self protection mechanic.
2. A caped healing spell. By this I mean a spell that only heals to a certain extent. So a spell that revives a party member and restores 25% of there health.
3. Using a long term resource like potions.
I don't think the lack of healing spells is in any way related to lore. It's mechanical.
Health is a long term resource in Inquisition. Mana/Stamina is a short term resource. This is the opposite of many traditional Rpg systems where mana/spells are a long term resource and health can be regain quickly and cheaply. Final Fantasy and old D&D use this system so they have healing spells. In DAO and DAII both Mana and health were short term resources that would recharge quickly so they could also have healing spells.
In Inquisition traditional Healing spells that run off mana would break the system as it would turn health into a short term resource.
Placing a long cool down on the spell would not work as it might force people to wait to heal. Having to wait 5 mins to in real time just so you can heal up your party dose not sound fun. It sounds like a Facebook game.
There are three ways that healing being implemented. all of which keep health a long term resource.
1. You can give a limited number of temporary hit points.- Mages have barrier which gives temp hp the and warriors also have a self protection mechanic.
2. A caped healing spell. By this I mean a spell that only heals to a certain extent. So a spell that revives a party member and restores 25% of there health.
3. Using a long term resource like potions.
4. If its not broken, don't fix it.
4. If its not broken, don't fix it.
And if one feels it was broken?
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