but those of us who play mages, and warriors to a lesser degree, are getting shafted with such a restriction
Mages were not useful because of heal. In fact, the 3 mage approach in DA:O (and to an extent DA2) made healing pointless. The only exception in DA:O was the infinite casting pool build with the SH/BM.
My canon Warden and Hawke were Spirit Healers. My canon Hawke was entirely a Spirit Healer/Creation mage, with no offensive spells whatsoever. Up to this point defensive mages have been my favorite to play.
DAI is a different game with a new design. It's kind of difficult to get upset when I haven't even played it yet.
My canon Warden and Hawke were Spirit Healers. My canon Hawke was entirely a Spirit Healer/Creation mage, with no offensive spells whatsoever. Up to this point defensive mages have been my favorite to play.
DAI is a different game with a new design. It's kind of difficult to get upset when I haven't even played it yet.
Same. Although they weren't pure healers, but half of their style incorporated healing. My Warden was a Primal/Spirit/Spirit Healer. Hawke was a Primal/Creation/Spirit Healer. Gonna miss that feature.
I don't think it takes a "master" to cast one spell from a particular school.... I think you're grasping at straws with this lore argument. It was a combat mechanics decision, unrelated to lore.
You might be able to caste Glyph, sure, but the human body is a complex thing, and using magic to heal it may not be as easy as you are thinking. Now did they do this strictly because of lore, most likely no, I just get annoyed when people assume something silly like "All mages have forgotten how to caste heal", especially since we have seen that not all mages can in fact caste that spell.
End of the day, nothing in the lore says that Heal is a basic spell. What we have seen is highly capable people in specific circumstances that can have access to that ability but that was as much a mechanic decision as is their current setup.
You might be able to caste Glyph, sure, but the human body is a complex thing, and using magic to heal it may not be as easy as you are thinking. Now did they do this strictly because of lore, most likely no, I just get annoyed when people assume something silly like "All mages have forgotten how to caste heal", especially since we have seen that not all mages can in fact caste that spell.
End of the day, nothing in the lore says that Heal is a basic spell. What we have seen is highly capable people in specific circumstances that can have access to that ability but that was as much a mechanic decision as is their current setup.
Combat healing has always been bullshit, even for games that have magic.
Same. Although they weren't pure healers, but half of their style incorporated healing. My Warden was a Primal/Spirit/Spirit Healer. Hawke was a Primal/Creation/Spirit Healer. Gonna miss that feature.
I found playing without offensive spells challenging in a really fun way, and man my Hawke was tough; by the end of Act 3 she had more constitution then Fenris. 
I understand missing the specialization; I love to play healers because I'm fascinated by healing as part of a character concept. I guess for me saying "DAI is a new game" is enough for me not to pine for it. I'm really excited to see how their new system works. There's a lot to discover, and I feel like a lot of fears will be mitigated once we're in the gaming environment and it all comes together.
The new design also seems like it may nudge me to play a different kind of character, which is something I like.
Combat healing has always been bullshit, even for games that have magic.
More or less agree....It's just BS people are comfortable with and are used to building tactics around. Change that up and we get this thread.
You might be able to caste Glyph, sure, but the human body is a complex thing, and using magic to heal it may not be as easy as you are thinking. Now did they do this strictly because of lore, most likely no, I just get annoyed when people assume something silly like "All mages have forgotten how to caste heal", especially since we have seen that not all mages can in fact caste that spell.
End of the day, nothing in the lore says that Heal is a basic spell. What we have seen is highly capable people in specific circumstances that can have access to that ability but that was as much a mechanic decision as is their current setup.
Okay that sounds fair. How easy or difficult some spells may be in comparison to others isn't something we can be sure of without any solid evidence, so it could be harder to learn Heal than I would assume... I can't prove otherwise. IMO I think that it's best if we all go by what the devs have said to us and accept that they sometimes ignore lore... however, I don't really see the harm in attempting to find a lore justification to counter certain lines of thought.
I found playing without offensive spells challenging in a really fun way, and man my Hawke was tough; by the end of Act 3 she had more constitution then Fenris.
I understand missing the specialization; I love to play healers because I'm fascinated by healing as part of a character concept. I guess for me saying "DAI is a new game" is enough for me not to pine for it. I'm really excited to see how their new system works. There's a lot to discover, and I feel like a lot of fears will be mitigated once we're in the gaming environment and it all comes together.
The new design also seems like it may nudge me to play a different kind of character, which is something I like.
Interesting, I had a different experience. One of my Mage Hawke's was totally support oriented. Only spec'ed into Spirit Healer, Creation, Spirit, Arcane, and Force Mage. Always had healing aura active. Only offense (somewhat) move I ever used was mind blast. I found it to be an almost BROKEN playthrough. Literally invincible.
Sustained Abilities always active: Healing Aura, Heroic Aura, Arcane Shield, Arcane Weapons.
Active Abilities: Heal, Group Heal, Revive, Haste, Mind Blast, Dispel, Glyph of Paralysis, Glyph of Repulsion, Gravitic Ring (<--most important)
I kind of miss this playthrough lol by the end of Act 2 I was a God.
But early in the game it was pretty challenging, considering I almost always played on Nightmare. Once I was about level 14, it was all over.
Interesting, I had a different experience. One of my Mage Hawke's was totally support oriented. Only spec'ed into Spirit Healer, Creation, Spirit, Arcane, and Force Mage. Always had cleansing aura active. Only offense (somewhat) move I ever used was mind blast. I found it to be an almost BROKEN playthrough. Literally invincible.
But early in the game it was pretty challenging, considering I almost always played on Nightmare. Once I was about level 14, it was all over.
As much as you can make a damage mage work in DA2, mage wasn't actually best used for damage.
As much as you can make a damage mage work in DA2, mage wasn't actually best used for damage.
Entropy always wins.
Oh sure Hawke and the Warden had a talent for it....but notice that none of the experienced mages in DAI have skill for and the Merill (herself a very powerful mage with access to ancient elven knowledge) was unable to caste heal as well.
As for potions, you'll have to spend the Inquisitions "Power" to allow you and all your forces to carry more potions if you so desire.
The DA:I mages are an experienced Hedge Mage who has managed to stay ahead of templars his entire life, and the first enchanter of Orlais's Circle of Magi, and they can't cast a healing spell?
seemslegit.gif
As much as you can make a damage mage work in DA2, mage wasn't actually best used for damage.
I gotta disagree. My nuker Mages were absolutely deadly on Nightmare, and no I didn't use Firestorm (friendly fire).
They weren't the best at DPS but they were definitely best at CC and debilitating bosses. Always prefer the Mage class because of their flexibility in comparison to the other classes. It also helps that they have a really unique story in this franchise.
Interesting, I had a different experience. One of my Mage Hawke's was totally support oriented. Only spec'ed into Spirit Healer, Creation, Spirit, Arcane, and Force Mage. Always had healing aura active. Only offense (somewhat) move I ever used was mind blast. I found it to be an almost BROKEN playthrough. Literally invincible.
Sustained Abilities always active: Healing Aura, Heroic Aura, Arcane Shield, Arcane Weapons.
Active Abilities: Heal, Group Heal, Revive, Haste, Mind Blast, Dispel, Glyph of Paralysis, Glyph of Repulsion, Gravitic Ring (<--most important)
I kind of miss this playthrough lol by the end of Act 2 I was a God.
But early in the game it was pretty challenging, considering I almost always played on Nightmare. Once I was about level 14, it was all over.
Ah you do bring up a good point that I didn't mention; it was challenging up until Act 3. By then I was indeed a god. (I played on Hard btw).
I gotta disagree. My nuker Mages were absolutely deadly on Nightmare, and no I didn't use Firestorm (friendly fire).
They weren't the best at DPS but they were definitely best at CC and debilitating bosses. Always prefer the Mage class because of their flexibility in comparison to the other classes. It also helps that they have a really unique story in this franchise.
entropy tree), but trash was easier to handle with rogues... unless the mage was Hawke or Bethany, in which case they just gravity comboed everyone and everything. Force magic was a beautiful, beautiful thing.
DA2 rogues picked up a lot of the CC, so it's a tossup which class was better at it. They had all the flasks, insane amounts of aggro control, and they could quickly trait their evade to do a mass stun.
I'd say mages won at single-target CC and general debuffs (
Or mix the best of both worlds. Have a rogue place aggro on a warrior, then have the Mage use CC like chain lightning, tempest, hemorrhage, pull of the abyss, gravitic ring, etc. to deal and set up massive AOE damage. Gets rid of all the trash/critter enemies so we can focus on the big guys.
Teamwork!
I'm hoping this means that you don't have to take a mage into battle necessarily, or can take as many as you want, and everything is still pretty balanced regardless. I always thought the idea of at least a 3 rogue or 3 warrior party was cool.
I'm hoping this means that you don't have to take a mage into battle necessarily, or can take as many as you want, and everything is still pretty balanced regardless. I always thought the idea of at least a 3 rogue or 3 warrior party was cool.
no as far as party make up this changes nothing. replace heals with barrier and you have the reason you "have" to bring a mage along. actually more so with potion limits.
A lot of people are picturing trying to play DAO/2 with no heals. Of course that wouldn't work, those games weren't balanced for that. But how well were they balanced with heals, really? I'm not a numbers guy, but I like a good fight. And here's what made it make sense for me.
There's a very simple reason why this is a good decision, and it's also why the balance in DAO/2 was all over the map. It's in the question "How many health points does a player have?" Because we need to know this before we can design an encounter and know how balanced it is.
<snip>
Just want to say....this was a really good post Lukas, so thanks for taking the time to post it and explain the logic.
I'm not sure yet how I feel about it. Will wait to see how it feels when I play. But I hear what you're saying, can see how it makes sense from a systems/balance POV. Just nervous that I'm going to find myself struggling to progress, or having to make annoying trips back and forth to camps/skyhold to bypass the limitation. I'll keep an open mind about it. I'm not one of those who plays on nightmare/insanity etc obviously
(Not as sanguine about the 8 slots in the PC UI though...)
Can someone from Bioware comment on the healing grenades mentioned repeatedly here? Do they replace potions? Or are they something else you can craft and carry a lot of around?
If they don't replace potions I guess you could farm a bunch of them and heal after fights.
Can someone from Bioware comment on the healing grenades mentioned repeatedly here? Do they replace potions? Or are they something else you can craft and carry a lot of around?
If they don't replace potions I guess you could farm a bunch of them and heal after fights.
bioware has to be trolling. the more I think about it. How are they going to take out healing magic out of a dragon age game. theres now way they did that....makes no sense.
they are just laughing at the reactions. why would they even take it out?
bioware has to be trolling. the more I think about it. How are they going to take out healing magic out of a dragon age game. theres now way they did that....makes no sense.
they are just laughing at the reactions. why would they even take it out?
Just not include it?
Because they want to?
they are just laughing at the reactions. why would they even take it out?
Because they wanna try something different?
Guest_El Topo Chico_*
El Topo Chico appreciates and accepts BioWare's challenge
Because they wanna try something different?
Handing the healing to the rogues via grenades sure is different. 
Retour en haut