2061 réponses à ce sujet

[KoorahUK]

Yes, now we have to bring specced tanks around?

No you don't. you have to bring whatever party make up you feel gives you the best damage avoidance and mitigation that suits your play style.

[Xilizhra]

No you don't. you have to bring whatever party make up you feel gives you the best damage avoidance and mitigation that suits your play style.

As a necromancer, can I summon corpses to be meatshields for the party? If so, it might make up for this...

[KoorahUK]

As a necromancer, can I summon corpses to be meatshields for the party? If so, it might make up for this...

That is my dream so I hope so! I've always wanted to raise a skelly army. 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

As a necromancer, can I summon corpses to be meatshields for the party? If so, it might make up for this...

Between you and Dorian, I'd be surprised if you can't conjure up a decent number of minions.

[Rawgrim]

That is my dream so I hope so! I've always wanted to raise a skelly army. 

 

I'd rather want actual corpses for this, to be honest. Not "creating" skeletons out of thin air. The more corpses the more skeletons. Otherwise its actually teleporting skeletons.

[Rawgrim]

Levels are a gameplay mechanic, not lore. It could be said that all the mages are very experienced but the mechanic starts them at level one so folks can have fun building up the spells. The time the levels progress versus the lifetime of the character are not an "accurate" or "realistic" indication of "learning".

 

Bioware has redesigned the game and this time, you just happened to have mages who don't know much in the way of healing. Can fit in lore. Not lore breaking. 

 

 

One would think that the Inquisition would have access to healers, though. Given that they are trying to prevent the world being destroyed.

[falconlord5]

If you could write your thoughts more coherently, it would've been much appreciated.

 

 

What part of "I ditched Wynne early because I realized that Spirit Healer tree didn't have the spells I needed and Wynne wouldn't do what I wanted when I wanted" is incoherent? Please, tell me. I love being lectured by the illiterate.

 

 

 

Facepalm. If you suck that much at tactics, it's only your problem, hon. I never thought people would struggle so much with an extremely simple tactics system of DA:O.

 

I had absolutely no problem with tactics with any of the other characters. Alistair would tank properly, Leliana would kill-steal everything, and my warrior would clean everything else up. Only the two Mages consistently behaved in a manner different than what I would set as their tactics. And out of the two, Wynne was by far the worst in this regard.

 

This was consistent. Sten, the dog, Zevran, Shale and Oghren all worked fine. The two Mages did nothing. Throughout the game, the only thing my two Mages did was die. I would complain more about how bad the spell trees were for Mages, except they never lasted long enough for me to see what the spells did.

 

The only time I came close to the so-called 'gamebreaking' nature of Mages was when I played the Mage origin. Otherwise, I found Mages to be the single most useless class in DA:O

 

They got much better in DA2, though they still weren't as useful as my rogues and warriors. And I don't have high hopes for the Mages in DAI.

 

Back on topic, I still ran through two games in which healing was supposedly viable without healing spells, no problem. A game balanced for reduced healing should be a cakewalk.

[andar91]

I just had a thought (impressive, I know)...

 

Sometimes I get the impression that people are obsessed with "the build" being perfect, but I feel like that's getting away from the idea of "the build" in the first place (or at least, building your character).

 

I get that some people love power gaming and min maxing and such - I'm not really one of them, but I don't begrudge them their enjoyment. However, talk of "I MUST bring a tank or I MUST bring a healer/spirit mage" just seem so incredibly restrictive to me. Take DA2, for instance. Aveline was an awesome tank, and that was clearly her default design...but you get her early on, and you can absolutely focus her more on damage with the Vanguard tree and offensive W&S talents. Sure, she's maybe not going to reach exactly the same heights as Fenris, but that doesn't mean she was an ineffective bruiser if you wanted her to be. But anyway, saying "Oh, I must bring a healer"...well, what if I bring Dorian and Vivienne and they're both geared towards damage? I may lack Barrier and healing and such, but I've also just boosted my capacity to destroy enemies before they get me.

 

I think that, depending on how you use strategy and what you're fighting, many different kinds of parties and builds are viable, albeit in a varied manner depending on the situation. Sure, two fire mages are pretty useless against a bunch of rage demons...but isn't that the point?

 

Isn't the point of the build a particular style of playing? Is it really possible to build a character that is perfect in all situations? If that's true, that sounds like a fairly boring game and an overpowered character. When my original Hawke took Chain Lighting as her first spell, I knew that I was giving up the crowd control of Winter's Grasp (especially upgraded) or the incredible healing of the basic Heal spell, and both have been more useful in certain situations. But so was Chain Lightning. Whenever we level our characters, we take at least some risk that we'll regret not having the spells we didn't take. (This goes for all classes, of course). But that's part of the fun! (For me).

[Almostfaceman]

One would think that the Inquisition would have access to healers, though. Given that they are trying to prevent the world being destroyed.

 

Nevertheless you fight with the army you have, not the one you wish you have. The game mechanics still fit the lore, which seems to be the issue you have with them.

[Illyria God King of the Primordium]

One would think that the Inquisition would have access to healers, though. Given that they are trying to prevent the world being destroyed.

Maybe that's why you get healed up by being at camp.  The Inquisition healers there fix you up, and send you on your way.  

[Reaverwind]

What part of "I ditched Wynne early because I realized that Spirit Healer tree didn't have the spells I needed and Wynne wouldn't do what I wanted when I wanted" is incoherent? Please, tell me. I love being lectured by the illiterate.

 

 

 

I had absolutely no problem with tactics with any of the other characters. Alistair would tank properly, Leliana would kill-steal everything, and my warrior would clean everything else up. Only the two Mages consistently behaved in a manner different than what I would set as their tactics. And out of the two, Wynne was by far the worst in this regard.

 

This was consistent. Sten, the dog, Zevran, Shale and Oghren all worked fine. The two Mages did nothing. Throughout the game, the only thing my two Mages did was die. I would complain more about how bad the spell trees were for Mages, except they never lasted long enough for me to see what the spells did.

 

The only time I came close to the so-called 'gamebreaking' nature of Mages was when I played the Mage origin. Otherwise, I found Mages to be the single most useless class in DA:O

 

They got much better in DA2, though they still weren't as useful as my rogues and warriors. And I don't have high hopes for the Mages in DAI.

 

Back on topic, I still ran through two games in which healing was supposedly viable without healing spells, no problem. A game balanced for reduced healing should be a cakewalk.

 

Yea, I really had to micro-manage the mages to make them work, and remember ripping my hair out over the idiotic pathing and AI - lost count of the times in DA:O the mages decided they had to get within melee range first before they could do anything. DA2 sucked the fun right out of playing mages. 

 

My primary concern in DA:I are the immunities. I expect dragons to be resistant to certain elements, and some, but NOT all crowd control effects, for example. I'm not pleased with what one video showed - with that avvar  boss (forget the title) being immune to slow AND fear AND knockdown. That's BS.

[KoorahUK]

One would think that the Inquisition would have access to healers, though. Given that they are trying to prevent the world being destroyed.

I imagine they do, they are out there in the field with the thousands of normal everyday troops the Inquisition requires to establish and maintain order. As the Inquisitor, you get 3 of the most powerful available. Its just that those mages (including ourself possibly) have little affinity for the Creation school. 

I'd rather have a powerhouse who can't heal than middling mage who can.

 

Still no lore conflict here my old chum

[Allan Schumacher]

I imagine they do, they are out there in the field with the thousands of normal everyday troops the Inquisition requires to establish and maintain order. As the Inquisitor, you get 3 of the most powerful available. Its just that those mages (including ourself possibly) have little affinity for the Creation school. 

I'd rather have a powerhouse who can't heal than middling mage who can.

 

Still no lore conflict here my old chum

 

The concept of healing is indeed not absent from the game's narrative.

[HTTP 404]

One would think that the Inquisition would have access to healers, though. Given that they are trying to prevent the world being destroyed.

 

could it be quite possible that many mage/healers are not combat proficient?  Perhaps most healers are behind the front lines in the medical tents versus on the battlefield.

[Star fury]

I think many people from this thread wants DA:I to be like the right square RPG

 

 

Spot on. Game developers increasingly make games more simplified, streamlined, generally dumbing them down. Hopefully there will be more games like Dark Souls.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

The concept of healing is indeed not absent from the game's narrative.

This isn't because we meet the same enemy five times in varying states of "obviously reconstructed from what we left lying on the ground," is it?

[andar91]

Spot on. Game developers increasingly make games more simplified, streamlined, generally dumbing them down. Hopefully there will be more games like Dark Souls.

 

Not every game needs to be really easy/simple, but they don't have to be ridiculously hard either.

 

I like the middle-road myself, which is what Inquisition looks like to me. I HATED Dark Souls.

[The Elder King]

Wait, so what exactly are the various ways to heal? 
 
I know there are 
 
1. You have 8 potions.
 
2. Going to the keep heals you and restocks potions.
 
3. Some sort of health regen potion that works over time. 
 
Am I missing anything?

Wait, so what exactly are the various ways to heal? 
 
I know there are 
 
1. You have 8 potions.
 
2. Going to the keep heals you and restocks potions.
 
3. Some sort of health regen potion that works over time. 
 
Am I missing anything?

Group Heal, and grenades that restore health/increase health regen.

[Xilizhra]

Those grenades are driving me nuts, because they're significantly less lore-friendly than healing spells...

[andar91]

Those grenades are driving me nuts, because they're significantly less lore-friendly than healing spells...

 

I don't think so. Elfroot is a plant that has remarkable healing properties that can heal in an instant (and be made by non-mages, so they aren't necessarily magical). So you make a grenade that releases a gas or spores into the air of elfroot or whatever that helps instantly heal wounds.

[In Exile]

I think my main problem with the healing changes is that DA2's healing was actually pretty well balanced. Really, it was probably the main thing from DA2 I'd have been happy to see repeated.

So I'm sceptical about the new system because it's replacing something that worked.

DA2s problem wasn't balance with healing, it was that it failed to explain the mechanic. You had people potion hoard because they didn't know they didn't have to hoard.

[AlanC9]

Given that you clearly can't read, I will explain it one more time: I specced Wynne into Spirit Healer, but found that the spells didn't do what. I set up her tactics so that she would heal when I wanted her too. Wynne still spent all the time buffing the party, and did not heal me. At any point. No matter how I juggled her tactics, no matter what spells I picked,

Wynne did whatever her tactics told her to do. If she was buffing rather than healing, either the heals were all in cooldown or you botched the tactics setup.

I was presuming it's the former.Wynne needs other things to do besides heal since there aren't enough heals to keep her active all the time.

[Reaver102]

Merril is an exception, since all the other mages in DA:O and 2 can cast healing, and the basic healing spell can be learned at level ONE. that means the spell is an easy one. The lore says the creation school is hard to master, not hard to learn.

Merrill is actually a bad example, while in gameplay she had no healing, she did know healing spells. In the dalish origin she accompanies the warden to stabalize tamlen if found. It is stated she knows a bit of the keepers magic and can help him.

[falconlord5]

Wynne did whatever her tactics told her to do. If she was buffing rather than healing, either the heals were all in cooldown or you botched the tactics setup.

I was presuming it's the former.Wynne needs other things to do besides heal since there aren't enough heals to keep her active all the time.

 

Wynne. Did not. Ever. Heal. Not once. Even when I cleaned out her other tactics and only told her to heal, Wynne would not heal. In that case, she would run up to the enemy and hit them with her staff. That's it. The heal spells were never in cooldown because they were never used.

 

I'm getting very tired of people telling me my experiences didn't happen.