Read back a few pages and you will see why people think about it. Your current post is 20 pages too late, and you will just revive stuff allready adressed several times.
we should have a cut and paste summary of what has been discussed and have it posted every new page.
Ok first, I should point out that making a dedicated healer (or even a part time healer) is also hog tying your character to "a small number of skills dedicated to not dying".
If you are imaging combat to be the same as in DA2, just without healing, then that would indeed suck, which is why that is NOT what is happening in DA:I. Combat has been rebuilt from the ground up to be balanced around not having access to healing.
I'm assuming you haven't seen it, so this post explains it very well (I'm really going to have to add this to my sig, lol)
http://forum.bioware...ver/?p=17416109
You will note that the devs 7 year old son played through on Casual for 2 hours with no problem. If that was your plan anyway you really have nothing to worry about.
I really don't get this though. Mages can rain fire from the heavens, fill enemies with terror, effectively slow down time, conjour magical barriers, bind spirits to their will, make their friends fight longer, harder and weaken their enemies yet they are as "mundane as every other shmoe" because they can no longer fill up a hit point bar?
I get that you liked playing a healer and despite being very in favour of this system, I do have symapthy for players who feel their role has been sacrificed in the interests of over all gameplay design, becasue quite frankly it has. However I do believe the system employed will improve the combat of the game significantly. I'm afraid its a "greater good" type of thing.
Warriors and rogues can do the same stuff mages can, by using grenades and over the top magical abilities, though. The mage doesn't really feel "magic" anymore.
Ok first, I should point out that making a dedicated healer (or even a part time healer) is also hog tying your character to "a small number of skills dedicated to not dying".
If you are imaging combat to be the same as in DA2, just without healing, then that would indeed suck, which is why that is NOT what is happening in DA:I. Combat has been rebuilt from the ground up to be balanced around not having access to healing.
I'm assuming you haven't seen it, so this post explains it very well (I'm really going to have to add this to my sig, lol
http://forum.bioware...ver/?p=17416109
You will note that the devs 7 year old son played through on Casual for 2 hours with no problem. If that was your plan anyway you really have nothing to worry about.
I really don't get this though. Mages can rain fire from the heavens, fill enemies with terror, effectively slow down time, conjour magical barriers, bind spirits to their will, make their friends fight longer, harder and weaken their enemies yet they are as "mundane as every other shmoe" because they can no longer fill up a hit point bar?
I get that you liked playing a healer and despite being very in favour of this system, I do have symapthy for players who feel their role has been sacrificed in the interests of over all gameplay design, becasue quite frankly it has. However I do believe the system employed will improve the combat of the game significantly. I'm afraid its a "greater good" type of thing.
Unfortunately i read the post and it still didn't allay my concerns. While my mages were able to heal in past games they also were able to rain fire down on enemies, (and all the other things you point out), but now, with them having spells that do the exact same things tanks and rogues do (mitigation of damage vs regenerative prowess), they seem a lot more mundane. I had dedicated healers, but I also had damage dealing power houses who didn't have to focus on regenerative prowess and used 'heal as a backup thing' in case potions were on cooldown. Now combat is scary, like doing a highwire act with no net.
Someone else's experience in the game (even a 7 year old) doesn't help me relate to what my experience will be.
And, ultimately, i guess I'm just angry that I feel like they've crapped all over my favorite class.
Warriors and rogues can do the same stuff mages can, by using grenades and over the top magical abilities, though. The mage doesn't really feel "magic" anymore.
Sorry no this is at best disingenuous
Can a Warrior or Rogue bring down a rain of fire? Encase their enemies in ice? Position a Wall of flame to lock down areas of the battle field? Conjoure an electrical storm from thin air incapacitating everyone around them? Summon Spirits to aid them?
Thats not even a thrid of some of the abilities a mage can bring to the party. If thsoe things don't make you feel 'magic' then.... I don't know what to say.
It's scary, like doing a highwire act with no net.
You have a net, it just looks different now. You have ways to mitigate damage, you have access to a mass heal, you have new specializations (Rift Mage, Necromancer) that provide new tactics and options.
And, ultimately, i guess I'm just angry that I feel like they've crapped all over my favorite class.
Don't take an attempt to improve the games challenge personally. They did it because fans asked for greater difficulty, and they realized that their past system needed an update.
Sorry no this is at best disingenuous
Can a Warrior or Rogue bring down a rain of fire? Encase their enemies in ice? Position a Wall of flame to lock down areas of the battle field? Conjoure an electrical storm from thin air incapacitating everyone around them? Summon Spirits to aid them?
Thats not even a thrid of some of the abilities a mage can bring to the party. If thsoe things don't make you feel 'magic' then.... I don't know what to say.
Nope but they can summon rocks by slamming the sword into the ground, teleport, skateboard across the ground, smash down castle gates with their shields + + +. Looks like magic.
Nope but they can summon rocks by slamming the sword into the ground, teleport, skateboard across the ground, smash down castle gates with their shields + + +. Looks like magic.
Well when you put mystic runes on shields and armor, you might notice some interesting effects. That said....who was teleporting in DAI?
Well when you put mystic runes on shields and armor, you might notice some interesting effects. That said....who was teleporting in DAI?
It's kind of like a flashing forward that Iron Bull has done in some videos. Backstabs are pretty magical looking too. I always felt everyone was an arcane warrior or a magic assassin or just a pure magic user in rpgs. 
You have a net, it just looks different now. You have ways to mitigate damage, you have access to a mass heal, you have new specializations (Rift Mage, Necromancer) that provide new tactics and options.
Don't take an attempt to improve the games challenge personally. They did it because fans asked for greater difficulty, and they realized that their past system needed an update.
Hmmm feels like the 'net' Bioware is giving us with this game is a clown holding up a butterfly net saying "Swing, I gotcha"... 
Nope but they can summon rocks by slamming the sword into the ground, teleport, skateboard across the ground, smash down castle gates with their shields + + +. Looks like magic.
They are trying to make each class visually satisfying to play for 80+ hours. I don't see any issue with that at all, especailly when many of these effects are due to magical runes being applied to weapons and armour. Mages don't have ownership on style I'm afraid.
Well when you put mystic runes on shields and armor, you might notice some interesting effects. That said....who was teleporting in DAI?
"Fallback Plan" is a rogue teleport ability... it teleports you back to the spot where this "device" was set up, and upgrades to it can heal the rogue to the amount of health they were at when this thing was set up or bring enemies along with them... (also relevant to the topic since it is a rogue healing spell)
Mages aren't the same as mundanes Even Without healing."Healing still exists in the game" but any sword swinging mook can drop a 'revive bomb' or quaff an (extremely limited number of) healing potions. Mages, once a unique, versatile and dynamic class, are now the same as any warrior off the street. Worse, they now seem hogtied to a small number of skills dedicated to not dying (buff/debuff/cc). Tanks and Rogues typically had the same type of skill sets, limiting damage vs regenerative capacity. Focus heal is what...once every 2 minutes? How many combats have you seen last that long? Especially when you don't have any natural regenerative capacity at all. I am imagining fights being like the DA2 Arishok battle, forever running around in circles, screaming like a little girl and taking pot shots at their knees, quaffing potions trying not to die.
I don't mind the only 8 skills active (I typically only used a few favorites each fight in previous games with a lot of passive abilities), so I don't really mind that part of the game, but I will truly miss the uniqueness of playing a character the way i wanted to play them.
I get that people are into the combat/tactical part of the game. I'm not, I find it boring. I like the story, it's why I play on Easy/Casual mode, so I can relax, have fun and enjoy the tale. If they wanted to make it harder, why didn't they just make nightmare truly nightmarish and take away the healing? Now it seems like no matter what setting it's on, it's going to be all 'nightmare mode' for me.
But I guess I'm glad to see they made someone happy with rendering mages as mundane as every other shmoe in Thedas.
They are trying to make each class visually satisfying to play for 80+ hours. I don't see any issue with that at all, especailly when many of these effects are due to magical runes being applied to weapons and armour. Mages don't have ownership on style I'm afraid.
The effects are still there with normal weapons. If you have no issues with it, great. But others do. Different tastes.
"Fallback Plan" is a rogue teleport ability... it teleports you back to the spot where this "device" was set up, and upgrades to it can heal the rogue to the amount of health they were at when this thing was set up or bring enemies along with them... (also relevant to the topic since it is a rogue healing spell)
True. And that teleporting\healing device is created by someone who has no magical ability at all.
A lot of people are picturing trying to play DAO/2 with no heals. Of course that wouldn't work, those games weren't balanced for that. But how well were they balanced with heals, really? I'm not a numbers guy, but I like a good fight. And here's what made it make sense for me.
There's a very simple reason why this is a good decision, and it's also why the balance in DAO/2 was all over the map. It's in the question "How many health points does a player have?" Because we need to know this before we can design an encounter and know how balanced it is.
So, how many HP? Well, we'd hope it starts with "somewhere between the minimum for a mage and the max for a warrior, varied based on party makeup." Okay, good place to start. That's a real number. We can build encounters that do somewhere within that range of total damage + effects.
Now add in healing. How many HP does the player have? "Somewhere between the minimum for a mage and the max for a warrior, plus somewhere between the minimum and maximum number of healing spells/potions and between the min/max of their mana/potions."
Okay, how much HP is that exactly? Since potions restore mana, and potions also restored HP, the actual number of potential HP was somewhere between the minimum for a mage and the total amount of gold you had available to spend on potions. And the later in the game it was, the more the top reached astronomical numbers. And so the greatest power the player had in previous games was not any one of their abilities, it was the ability to make the number of HP impossible to estimate.
And to counter effectively infinite HP, "balance" meant we needed to hit the player with far more potential damage than their characters could withstand, and do it all but instantly. In effect, replacing HP damage (unknown limits) with death/resurrection (known limits). Or we had to stop them from chaining potions, meaning more enemies that put them to sleep or confused them, or otherwise made the player not able to take action. Alpha strikes and crowd control, neither of which were tactics that were fun to face again and again, because they "balanced" by removing actions, by removing control.
Now in Inquisition, by reducing healing, by actually defining HP to a range that can have real numbers in it, we can better balance encounters. And no, players can't rely on chaining potions. So what do they get instead?
Abilities/gear/choices that actually have an effect on the battle that is greater than infinite health on your belt. And because your greatest ability isn't chugging potions, we need less effects that shut you down. You spend more time in control of your characters making more varied decisions to have a greater effect on the flow of the battle. You have regen from spells and potions and gear. You have effects you can craft that grant health on enemy deaths. You have damage mitigation through abilities and buffs and crafting. Limiting health and balancing enemies accordingly makes more tactical choices viable while keeping the challenge.
Does this make it more difficult? On Nightmare, Well, you asked for a challenge, and you'll have one that you can overcome in many more viable ways than previously possible.
But what about Easy? Well, last weekend, on Easy/Casual, starting the game with a mage and me not saying a word, my seven year old played for two hours that included many battles, including rifts and beating the crap out of a low level Pride demon. No party wipes. I covered his ears once.
I think you'll be fine.
Seven year olds these days most likely have better reflexes than me. That having been said, thank you for the vote of confidence.
"Fallback Plan" is a rogue teleport ability... it teleports you back to the spot where this "device" was set up, and upgrades to it can heal the rogue to the amount of health they were at when this thing was set up or bring enemies along with them... (also relevant to the topic since it is a rogue healing spell)
Interesting, hadn't heard that one. Should prove highly useful in combat.
Seven year olds these days most likely have better reflexes than me. That having been said, thank you for the vote of confidence.
Tactical menu
Interesting, hadn't heard that one. Should prove highly useful in combat.
Indeed... whatever other opinions I may have about it, this ability will prove very useful in dealing with the healing restrictions (escaping from combat in addition to the healing upgrade).
Interesting, hadn't heard that one. Should prove highly useful in combat.
Indeed. Like a get out of jail free card. Great when we get all kinds of advantages handed to us. Remove healing spells to make the game harder, but add teleport + healing to make it easier.
It would help a lot if they released a small demo of combat for the players just to test it out like they did for DA2. Nothing spoilerish or long, just a few combats to get a feel for the new system instead of just relying on word of mouth or videos to go by. Right now, with the emphasis on 'tactics and balance' I'm just picturing combat as one long ass nightmare of juggling tactics and micromanaging every little move my party makes--something I really didn't have to do much of in previous games.
And if warriors and rogues--and apparently rogues get to do something no Warden or Hawke has yet to do--get the same types of abilities as mages using devices/runes instead of mana, it won't matter what class I play.
Yeah - those items could be created by someone like Dagna.
Magi-Tech doesn't need mages to make it. Mages can't imbue magical items with magical properties... that's runecrafting. And mages can't runecraft.
These magi-tech items can EASILY be explained with new runes that are set into items.
You're going to meet Dagna - I don't see why she wouldn't explain her craft to you.
Why do people want Dragon Age to be static?
Depends on the difficulty. On casual I doubt there'll be much need For tactics andIt would help a lot if they released a small demo of combat for the players just to test it out like they did for DA2. Nothing spoilerish or long, just a few combats to get a feel for the new system instead of just relying on word of mouth or videos to go by. Right now, with the emphasis on 'tactics and balance' I'm just picturing combat as one long ass nightmare of juggling tactics and micromanaging every little move my party makes--something I really didn't have to do much of in previous games.
And if warriors and rogues--and apparently rogues get to do something no Warden or Hawke has yet to do--get the same types of abilities as mages using devices/runes instead of mana, it won't matter what class I play.
Yeah - those items could be created by someone like Dagna.
Magi-Tech doesn't need mages to make it. Mages can't imbue magical items with magical properties... that's runecrafting. And mages can't runecraft.
These magi-tech items can EASILY be explained with new runes that are set into items.
You're going to meet Dagna - I don't see why she wouldn't explain her craft to you.
Why do people want Dragon Age to be static?
She would still need a mage to help create parts with magical abilities for such a device. Even if the devs said teleporting is not possible in Thedas. Best ignore that comment they made about teleporting in this case, though.
Nope but they [warriors] can summon rocks by slamming the sword into the ground
Not this **** again.
It's just a graphical effect, demonstrating the power of the blow.
Mages don't make runes to my understanding.
What if someone like Sandal has developed a "Time Skip" rune which allows the rogue to dash backward faster than the eye can see making it appear like teleportation?
Let's forget for a second that it's really just "re-skinned teleporting to fit their claims" - to my understanding it's runesmiths (dwarves and Tranquil that create runes with lyrium). Mages have nothing to do with runes. Mages - to my knowledge - aren't casting "Fire" into a fire rune.
If all the mage in Thedas died - there would still be runes and Enchantment!
And mundanes have used magical items in these kinds of games since the1970's - do we also complain about the fire or ice effects around swords?
More importantly - you're Inquisitor is not a Grand Sage of All Things Enchantment... so why would the game sit there and explain "how" everything is available?
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