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No healing spells whatsoever


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#1526
Dunbartacus

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It's not fake difficulty, per se; rather, it's real tedium and apparently ridiculous things like potion tables right before bosses.

Why are they ridiculous if the potion tables are placed at the end or throughout long dungeons it prevents the tedium of reaching a boss fight with no potions and having to backtrack.



#1527
Xilizhra

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Why are they ridiculous if the potion tables are placed at the end or throughout long dungeons it prevents the tedium of reaching a boss fight with no potions and having to backtrack.

Ridiculous lorewise.


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#1528
Star fury

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Ridiculous lorewise.


Potion tables where you can refill just before a dungeon boss? Nothing to see here, move along. More seriously, it does break immersion.

#1529
Dunbartacus

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Ridiculous lorewise.

Maybe the boss likes having healing potions nearby :P.

 

Anyways without the tables you'd be complaining about the tedium, and when they take steps to prevent tedium its an abominable lore violation.


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#1530
dirk5027

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from the videos i've seen it's one big "potion popping party"..............to be honest i don't think this is gonna go over to well, we'll see



#1531
Nohvarr

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Maybe the boss likes having healing potions nearby :P.

 

Anyways without the tables you'd be complaining about the tedium, and when they take steps to prevent tedium its an abominable lore violation.

Bioware: "Everyone get's a Pegasus to make traveling between Orlais and Ferelden quicker!"

 

Fan 1: "There are no Pegasus in Thedas....you're breaking the lore!"

 

Fan 2: "I want a Griffon!"

 

Fan 3: "Baby Dragon!"



#1532
Jester

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Ridiculous lorewise.

Depends on where they'll really be. They can be in a secret mage laboratory, just before we enter his room. Or just around castle, not necessarily right before the boss. 

If they're are in a middle of Deep Roads, then it surely is riddiculous. But we don't know how it is implemented yet.



#1533
Incantrix

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I'm not sure why everyone is up in arms about this. Just. Adapt.

 

This game might teach us to not rely on potions as a crutch and if what they've said is true, then good strategy will make you not need a chug down potions like water. 

 

Sometimes I'm not sure what you guys want. You say you want DA1 strategy and they give it you then you complain. (DA1 was also a game where you could cheese by chugging potions and spamming heal among various other cheese mechanics). Folks, they're giving strategy to you on a silver platter. Stop complaining!


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#1534
Medhia_Nox

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There are demagogues that should be banned on this forum for spreading vitriol. 

 

We don't know how any of these mechanics work - stating anything about them as fact is calumny and lies.


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#1535
Xilizhra

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Maybe the boss likes having healing potions nearby :P.

 

Anyways without the tables you'd be complaining about the tedium, and when they take steps to prevent tedium its an abominable lore violation.

Well, they could have just left healing spells in, which would have solved both problems.



#1536
Medhia_Nox

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@Xilizhra:  You don't know that. 



#1537
Xilizhra

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@Xilizhra:  You don't know that. 

It seemed plain enough logic to me.



#1538
Medhia_Nox

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@Xilizhra:  That's nice, you don't know it.  

It's just what you want. 


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#1539
KoorahUK

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Well, they could have just left healing spells in, which would have solved both problems.

...And completely fail to address the combat balancing problems that brought about the changes in the first place.

 

Appreciate you feel burned by this, I don't blame you, but it is what it is. BioWare felt that improved combat balance for all players was more important than protecting the play style of some.


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#1540
The Elder King

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Potion tables where you can refill just before a dungeon boss? Nothing to see here, move along. More seriously, it does break immersion.

It does (though it'd on people's threshold in suspension of disbelief. Some people might not have their immersion Broken by this).
Thankfully my immersion was Broken in DAO already, so I'm already in a story/gameplay segregation mode.

#1541
KoorahUK

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It does (though it'd on people's threshold in suspension of disbelief. Some people might not have their immersion Broken by this).
Thankfully my immersion was Broken in DAO already, so I'm already in a story/gameplay segregation mode.

Works fine for me to be honest. I always found it weird that my health would magically refill within seconds of combat ending. It makes more sense to me that the enemy would have locations in their strongholds for their minions to grab heal potions. We have them at camps, why shouldn;t they have them in their bases? The fact there are ones outside boss encounters is just a gameplay contrivance, much like regenning health. 


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#1542
Xilizhra

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...And completely fail to address the combat balancing problems that brought about the changes in the first place.

 

Appreciate you feel burned by this, I don't blame you, but it is what it is. BioWare felt that improved combat balance for all players was more important than protecting the play style of some.

I don't even see the alleged problems as evident in DA2, and in DAO, they were pretty easy to stop with Mana Clash.



#1543
Solar1101

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I for one look forward to the challenge.  I will start off on the normal difficulty and if I find that I require a greater challenge...then of course I will go harder.  If the only challenge at this point is then optimizing the party to control the battlefield in a manner that works for me (including my Inquisitor) then that is also a strategy.

 

It is possible that given the mix of NPC's a certain Inquisitor race, profession and specialization will be quite key t a victory at the highest levels...as mages tend to be a bit squishy at least at lower levels.  Having one big tank in the party with two archers and a mage (assuming one is limited to 4 people) would seem optimum to me.  However I could see one archer and 2 mages, but if one ever did 3 warriors and 1 mage there might be trouble.  2 Warriors and 1 melee rogue might be even worse.  But all of this will also depend on positioning and which enemy it is you are fighting.

 

Maybe some battles will get over with quickly with overwhelming melee force and others result in insta-death.  Whenever I get to start the campaign I will probably record all of my sessions and post them.  



#1544
Medhia_Nox

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It's called a "Forward Operating Base" (not literally in game - I'm stating what they are) - and you have to clear enemies to advance to them. 

 

You're "The Inquisition" - not "Five plucky high school archetypes fighting the good fight against impossible odds".  

 

"You" didn't get to that spot... the Inquisition got to that spot.  With luck - there will be guards there too - standing around "holding" the position.  If not - I'll live.  

 

I would actually imagine most successful military organizations set up forward operating bases right before any major force of opposition they want to be able to resupply easily from.


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#1545
Straton

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it just seems counter intuitive in a single player game that this would even be an issue.. so what if someone spams a healing spell? it has no effect on the rest of the player base, and the back and forth between camps after every other fight will get old fairly quick I can imagine.. let the actual 'difficulty selection' at the beginning of the game determine how hard the game is to play, not by taking away an almost needed and hallmark element from the rpg genre

#1546
Straton

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it just seems counter intuitive in a single player game that this would even be an issue.. so what if someone spams a healing spell? it has no effect on the rest of the player base, and the back and forth between camps after every other fight will get old fairly quick I can imagine.. let the actual 'difficulty selection' at the beginning of the game determine how hard the game is to play, not by taking away an almost needed and hallmark element from the rpg genre

#1547
Straton

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it just seems counter intuitive in a single player game that this would even be an issue.. so what if someone spams a healing spell? it has no effect on the rest of the player base, and the back and forth between camps after every other fight will get old fairly quick I can imagine.. let the actual 'difficulty selection' at the beginning of the game determine how hard the game is to play, not by taking away an almost needed and hallmark element from the rpg genre

#1548
PhroXenGold

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it just seems counter intuitive in a single player game that this would even be an issue.. so what if someone spams a healing spell? it has no effect on the rest of the player base, and the back and forth between camps after every other fight will get old fairly quick I can imagine.. let the actual 'difficulty selection' at the beginning of the game determine how hard the game is to play, not by taking away an almost needed and hallmark element from the rpg genre

 

It's not about being "difficult". It's about allowing Bioware to have far more flexibility when it comes to designing encounters and the pacing thereof.


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#1549
Catastrophy

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What is the difference between "fake" and "real" difficulty though?

When the game cheats on me. Like e.g. arbitrarily damaging or freezing the character with no reasonable explanation. Magical spawns right behind the back. Magical spawns right behind while freezing the character in a dialogue or so, leaving no time to react. Magic insta heal enemies. Enemies that ragdoll the character excessively. Unexplicable invulnerability. Omniscient enemies, FoW peekers (especially in RTS). The Geth Prime's combat drone and its turret. Overly heavy screenshaking and vision blur.

You get the idea and I'm sure there are things you also loathe.

 

My personal top on the difficulty shitlist: Throwing me into a "boss fight" and not explaining any objective: That last Bioshock fight with the airships? It was even worse than the Deus Ex boss fights (I uninstalled the game on the 2nd playthrough when I came to the 1st bossfight). There is simply no point in doing another playthrough if you know you'll just rage some point in the game.



#1550
KoorahUK

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I don't even see the alleged problems as evident in DA2, and in DAO, they were pretty easy to stop with Mana Clash.

Unless you have credentials you are not sharing with us, you are not a combat designer for video games though. The people designing these encounters feel that it was difficult to do and while I appreciate you personally may not have had any problems, many, many people did. All I hear on these boards is how bad the combat in DA2 was - not a position i agree with myself but its a very common complaint. DA:O seems to be more favourably remembered but I always found it a bit weak, people waving weapons at each other with little feeling of blows being traded. 

Combat in both games did have had balancing problems for many people. Becasue of healing, every encounter had to be potentially lethal and that was difficult to judge for the game designers precicely because max hit points was somewhere between not many and virtually infinite - hence why a lot of people found the game a bit of a joke in later stages. 

Taking out healing wasn't the goal of the change; better combat was. While I haven't tried it I think this new approach may well deliver it. 


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