2061 réponses à ce sujet

[KoorahUK]

Class description (Dragon Age wiki ):

"As a class, mages focus on spells in order to deliver damage and debilitate their enemies, as well as support and heal their allies."

 

This is still a valid description of the mage class in DA:I

[Heimdall]

Maybe it is and the lore says so but then ...

 

In the short period of time (during the events of DA:O and DA:A), and in one small area of the Thedas (Ferelden) there was no problem to find 2 Healers and not just simple healers - spirit healers. Wynne and Anders.

 

12 available specializations (Origins) + 6 (Awakening) that gives us 18 available specs.

13 available companions in both games.

 

 

So 18 specs and 13 companions and two of them happen to be Spirit healers (plus potentially another one - the PC).

 

So if it was so rare what would be the chance for that happening ?

 

That's why it is, for some of us, so hard to belive and swallow that pillow Bioware is giving.

About the same chance of two mages becoming abominations and retaining their own minds (Mostly)?  Or would you argue that that is common as well?  Anders and Wynne were highly unusual individuals already.  Stumbling upon them was a matter of chance (read: Plot) not to imply that they have common skillsets (If anything, companions tend to exceptional rather than average individuals).  And the PC is always super special and skilled, so no comment there.

[Heimdall]

Val22 already posted this, but perhaps it bears repeating: 

 

Class description (Dragon Age wiki ):

"As a class, mages focus on spells in order to deliver damage and debilitate their enemies, as well as support and heal their allies."

 

See?  Spells to heal their allies.  Lore.  Just like they use spells to damage and debilitate - and where else do you do that but in battle?  Or are they going to retcon that as well??  Wynne healed herself in battle (in the scene where she reveals that she can tap into the power of the spirit keeping her alive) - if she hadn't, she'd be dead now.  How will they explain that in their Retcon World?

Wiki descriptions are not official, and as previously noted, mages can still support their allies in Inquisition.

 

Knight Enchanters can do that as well, as I understand it, their Focus ability involves calling on a spirit to heal and revive their allies (Someone in this thread mentioned that anyway).  So yes, that's still there as an extreme last resort and only through calling on the direct aid of a spirit.

[KoorahUK]

You might prefer it, I don't!  And I'm not mixing anything up - my Spirit Healer could heal in battle.  That was lore, not gameplay.

Lore is the framework from which the gameplay mechanics are derived. It is Lore that healers exist in Thedas but it has always being described as rare and challenging. 

The gameplay in earlier games revolved around you having healing to repair the damage you took, so you were provided with a healer in game, or the ability to do so yourself, so that you could survive. 

However BioWare feel the combat that arose from such conventions needed improving, and by removing healing they could change the combat and better balance encounters.

According to the devs, the availability of healing in this game is much closer to the intended lore. The fact that you had access to it previously was a concession to gameplay rather that a scripture of Lore. if anything arguments that "we had them before so we must have them now" are evidence of tradition, not lore. 

[xkg]

About the same chance of two mages becoming abominations and retaining their own minds (Mostly)?  Or would you argue that that is common as well?  Anders and Wynne were highly unusual individuals already.  Stumbling upon them was a matter of chance (read: Plot) not to imply that they have common skillsets (If anything, companions tend to exceptional rather than average individuals).  And the PC is always super special and skilled, so no comment there.

 

Ok, but now I am supposed to be the leader of powerful organiztion and the events span across the large area of Thedas and I can't even find one healer ?,

And I am not even talking about spirit healer, just a simple healer, with "Heal" spell knowledge.

 

AFAIC It has nothing to do with the lore. Bioware just revamped entirely their game mechanics to try "something diferent", and they are "good" (not really) at it.

The new mechanics is designed to work with no healers available. That is the simple answer, not the lore.

[Heimdall]

Ok, but now I am supposed to be the leader of powerful organiztion and the events span across the large area of Thedas and I can't even find one healer ?,

And I am not even talking about spirit healer, just a simple healer, with "Heal" spell knowledge.

 

AFAIC It has nothing to do with the lore. Bioware just revamped entirely their game mechanics to try "something diferent", and they are "good" (not really) at it.

The new mechanics is designed to work with no healers available. That is the simple answer, not the Lore.

Perhaps you can, but their abilities are only useful for noncombat conditions.  The "Heal" spell as it appeared in previous DA gameplay never made sense in the lore.

 

I don't think anyone's saying that lore was the main impetus for the change.  Obviously it was the desire to change the gameplay.  The presence of healing forced them to design each battle to be a full party knockout for there to be challenge, (Which usually meant that the enemies did proportionally far more damage and had far more health than the party).  This gives them a bit more latitude in encounter design, amongst other things.  It just has the added bonus of bringing gameplay and lore closer together.

[dutch_gamer]

Ok, but now I am supposed to be the leader of powerful organiztion and the events span across the large area of Thedas and I can't even find one healer ?,
And I am not even talking about spirit healer, just a simple healer, with "Heal" spell knowledge.
 
AFAIC It has nothing to do with the lore. Bioware just revamped entirely their game mechanics to try "something diferent", and they are "good" (not really) at it.
The new mechanics is designed to work with no healers available. That is the simple answer, not the lore.

And you have already found that "simple" healer namely Vivienne who as a KE can heal, only not that often. The amount of times you could heal during battle was never lore.

[Lilaeth]

We're never going to agree on this, guys.  It's still a shitty retcon, and it still sucks big time, as far as I'm concerned.

[KoorahUK]

Ok, but now I am supposed to be the leader of powerful organiztion and the events span across the large area of Thedas and I can't even find one healer ?,

And I am not even talking about spirit healer, just a simple healer, with "Heal" spell knowledge.

 

AFAIC It has nothing to do with the lore. Bioware just revamped entirely their game mechanics to try "something diferent", and they are "good" (not really) at it.

The new mechanics is designed to work with no healers available. That is the simple answer, not the lore.

The argument about "why don't I have a healer in my party?" also has nothing to do with Lore, but rather narrative and plot. The counter to that of course is "why would I want to find a healer when the mages I do have at my disposal can stop me getting hurt in the first place?"

 

Honestly, i agree with you it has nothing to do with Lore but it isn't don't think Heimdall is making that claim at all. The change is not being made "because of Lore" but it doesn't break it either.

 

[Urazz]

We're never going to agree on this, guys.  It's still a shitty retcon, and it still sucks big time, as far as I'm concerned.

Is it a retcon in lore?  I don't think so but I do think that they did change healing spells a bit to the point where it's not feasible in combat to use, requires time to use, alot of concentration, and tires out the mage doing the healing.  After all, destroying things is much easier than creating things or fixing things.

[Heimdall]

We're never going to agree on this, guys.  It's still a shitty retcon, and it still sucks big time, as far as I'm concerned.

Well this is sort of the point: it is a major shift in gameplay, but it doesn't violate any tenants of lore.  Thus, not a retcon.

[Lilaeth]

We're not going to agree on this either; sorry to sound curt, but nothing that's been said to me so far has changed my mind, and my arthritis is bad today, so I'm trying to cut down on typing now!

[Star fury]

Ok, but now I am supposed to be the leader of powerful organiztion and the events span across the large area of Thedas and I can't even find one healer ?,

And I am not even talking about spirit healer, just a simple healer, with "Heal" spell knowledge.

 

AFAIC It has nothing to do with the lore. Bioware just revamped entirely their game mechanics to try "something diferent", and they are "good" (not really) at it.

The new mechanics is designed to work with no healers available. That is the simple answer, not the lore.

Your opponents always forget that the ultimate heal called "Resurgence" still exists in DAI and it's far more powerful than any pesky heal spell from both DA:O & DA2.   Resurgence will heal 100% of health AND resurrect the whole party.

[Heimdall]

Your opponents always forget that the ultimate heal called "Resurgence" still exists in DAI and it's far more powerful than any pesky heal spell from both DA:O & DA2.   Resurgence will heal 100% of health AND resurrect the whole party.

Not forgotten, but that's an extremely advanced spell that summons a spirit that actually does the healing, not unlike what Wynne did in that cutscene where she reveals that it drains a bit of her life with every use.  Not something to use at the drop of a hat.

 

That's lore friendly.

[Xilizhra]

Not forgotten, but that's an extremely advanced spell that summons a spirit that actually does the healing, not unlike what Wynne did in that cutscene where she reveals that it drains a bit of her life with every use.  Not something to use at the drop of a hat.

 

That's lore friendly.

While the lack of Creation healing spells is not.

[Heimdall]

While the lack of Creation healing spells is not.

Though the lack of combat healing is.

[Xilizhra]

Though the lack of combat healing is.

I could live with a lack of combat healing, maybe (it still isn't lore-friendly) if there was out-of-combat healing.

[Incantrix]

You might prefer it, I don't!  And I'm not mixing anything up - my Spirit Healer could heal in battle.  That was lore, not gameplay.

That was YOUR lore. Head canon. The official lore makes healing much more intricate and delicate. 

[Zoltansbeard]

Im actually Ok with the Gameplay choice

 

but i would love to get an official "Lore" explenation either from the devs or even better ingame...

 

yes you can argue that only very few can heal and your mages just dont

 

but in DAO and DA2 the PC could heal as well... so as a ubertalented Inquisitior we cant heal?? 

 

as i said im ok with the decision!!  it would be a nice touch if it where explained a bit more "lore" wise

[Zoltansbeard]

That was YOUR lore. Head canon. The official lore makes healing much more intricate and delicate. 

I dont know. you are right when talking about the PC as a healer. But is Wynne "Head canon" ? she is a fixed companion  and a healer

 

the problem for some people seems to be "gameplay vs official canon" or not... in combat healing was there... we crave an explenation why its gone other than "our mages just arent healers"  well in DA:O every mage could learn Spirit healer...   its ok that its gone  it would just be nice to get an official lore "reason"

[Muspade]

I dont know. you are right when talking about the PC as a healer. But is Wynne "Head canon" ? she is a fixed companion and a healer

the problem for some people seems to be "gameplay vs official canon" or not... in combat healing was there... we crave an explenation why its gone other than "our mages just arent healers" well in DA:O every mage could learn Spirit healer... its ok that its gone it would just be nice to get an official lore "reason"

You have 65 pages. Go through them and find the answer...

[DLaren]

In DA:O every mage could learn Spirit healer... its ok that its gone

No, it isn't.

It's not ok that entire class, playstyle, & role-playing perspective has been removed from the series.

[Malvus]

Dark Souls: Inquisition. Way to go Bioware. I'm guessing they want to drag on the battles to mask the lack of content. An RPG in 2014 with no healing spells... why not make it game over when the inquisitor dies as well? Even JRPGs do it better. This is gonna be such a steaming pile of ****. I can already imagine the 10 million trips from the camp and exploring and back and forth and back and forth. Way to make this **** an offline MMO. **** off, Bioware.

[Almostfaceman]

I'm guessing 

 

[KoorahUK]

Dark Souls: Inquisition. Way to go Bioware. I'm guessing they want to drag on the battles to mask the lack of content. An RPG in 2014 with no healing spells... why not make it game over when the inquisitor dies as well? Even JRPGs do it better. This is gonna be such a steaming pile of ****. I can already imagine the 10 million trips from the camp and exploring and back and forth and back and forth. Way to make this **** an offline MMO. **** off, Bioware.

Wow...thats some drama overload.

There are plenty of people discussing this like grown ups. Perhaps go and read those threads rather than make absurd posts like this based on misunderstanding and misconception.