2061 réponses à ce sujet

[Jaison1986]

*sigh*

 

It's not about making things more challenging. It's about making different and more varied challenges. This isn't some "Dark Souls HARDCORE!!!!!" difficulty. If you are on an appropriate diificulty setting and fighting appropriate enemies, there's no reason what so ever to assume that you're going to have to backtrack regularly. If you find yourself doing so either find an area with lower level enemies, improve your playing skills or, if you don't find doing that enjoyable (which is a perfectly reasonably position and there's nothing wrong with it), lower the difficulty. Hell, it's been explicitly stated that even a 7 year old can pick up and play Easy.

 

And, actually, healing wasn't optional in previous games. Your health restored to full when you left combat. You were healed. And that is the basic problem with healing. It turns every single encouter into a self contained event, seriously limiting what can be done with the means of creating difficulty and the variety of challenges. By removing healing and controling the maximum amount of health that can be restored by limiting the maximum number of potions, the developers have far more flexibility in how they design encounters. No longer does every encounter worth fighting have to be able to kill the party. Instead they can have multiple encounters set up to wear you down over time. Yet, every now and then, they can still put in old style "party wipe" encounters by putting potion refills either side of them. Variety. The spice of life.

 

God, people will never listen.

 

This new system does not make the game more challanging. I'm sure I can easily wipe out most enemies and survive encounters. The problem is that I need to go back to camp from time to time to restock and heal. I am only human, and even if play with the best of my abilities, I'm sure there will be moments were enemies will deal some damage causing me to have to go back. And that is an waste of bloody time. This is an artificial difficulty, no challange is being added to the game, just an impractical system that causes us to spend time in this pointless activity while I could be just traveling instead.

[leaguer of one]

Then remove barriers and protection spells as well. They only server to keep you going longer between fights as well since it saves you health. It works both ways. The only way this could work properly is having lower difficulties have healing after combat back up to 100% like in previous games and higher difficulties having it disabled and having to rely on barriers and protection spells. Or just having a simple toggle for all difficulties in the gameplay option. You even know what an option entails?  You know the definition of optional? I'm fine with having a masochistic difficulty that forces no healing after battles and yada-yada but forcing it on everyone is not the way to go. Bioware games are very story heavy and some people just want to experience the story more than struggle through the combat and the healing system. Not everyone likes Dark Souls. Not everyone likes the same things you do and it doesn't need to be forced on everyone because you need to stroke your gaming ego.

It works way differently then you think. The old system tank and spank rewarded non-planning and charging in too much. The barrier system in place now make the player think before attacking. It not the same as just healing being that in one just fully restores while the current one is temporary. Barriers fade and have less power over time in dai and armor need to be set up. All of it requires timing and planning while healing just can be spammed any time.

[PhroXenGold]

Then remove barriers and protection spells as well. They only server to keep you going longer between fights as well since it saves you health. It works both ways. The only way this could work properly is having lower difficulties have healing after combat back up to 100% like in previous games and higher difficulties having it disabled and having to rely on barriers and protection spells. Or just having a simple toggle for all difficulties in the gameplay option. You even know what an option entails?  You know the definition of optional? I'm fine with having a masochistic difficulty that forces no healing after battles and yada-yada but forcing it on everyone is not the way to go. Bioware games are very story heavy and some people just want to experience the story more than struggle through the combat and the healing system. Not everyone likes Dark Souls. Not everyone likes the same things you do and it doesn't need to be forced on everyone because you need to stroke your gaming ego.

 

Why exactly do you think this system will be more difficult than the previous one?

 

Not to mention, if all you want to do it look at the story, then play on easy difficulty. Surely such a mature adult as yourself could figure out how to do that, right?

[leaguer of one]

God, people will never listen.

 

This new system does not make the game more challanging. I'm sure I can easily wipe out most enemies and survive encounters. The problem is that I need to go back to camp from time to time to restock and heal. I am only human, and even if play with the best of my abilities, I'm sure there will be moments were enemies will deal some damage causing me to have to go back. And that is an waste of bloody time. This is an artificial difficulty, no challange is being added to the game, just an impractical system that causes us to spend time in this pointless activity while I could be just traveling instead.

It's not different from resting in bg 1 and 2 or going back to resupply in dao. That's not artificial difficulty at all.

[Heimdall]

Then remove barriers and protection spells as well. They only server to keep you going longer between fights as well since it saves you health. It works both ways. The only way this could work properly is having lower difficulties have healing after combat back up to 100% like in previous games and higher difficulties having it disabled and having to rely on barriers and protection spells. Or just having a simple toggle for all difficulties in the gameplay option. You even know what an option entails?  You know the definition of optional? I'm fine with having a masochistic difficulty that forces no healing after battles and yada-yada but forcing it on everyone is not the way to go. Bioware games are very story heavy and some people just want to experience the story more than struggle through the combat and the healing system. Not everyone likes Dark Souls. Not everyone likes the same things you do and it doesn't need to be forced on everyone because you need to stroke your gaming ego.

You do realize there is an easy difficulty level, right? One dev said his seven year old was able to breeze through the first parts of the game on easy, I doubt it'll be a problem for people that just want to experience the story. This isn't DAO or DA2 just without healing, the entire system and the encounters have been designed around the lack of healing. So don't confuse "It's going to be extremely difficult" with "there is no healing" one does not necessarily imply the other.

Oh, and "make everything toggles!" Isn't a useful argument.

[Jaison1986]

It's not different from resting in bg 1 and 2 or going back to resupply in dao. That's not artificial difficulty at all.

 

I never played BG games. And the thing is you don't actually need to ressuply in Origins. You can just buy potions from the merchants you run across and that should be enough. Now try to imagine if instead, you would need to stop in the middle of an major quest every half an hour or so, and fast travel back to the camp every time in order to heal and ressuply, and then only so you could continue the main quest. Does this sound practical or fun to you in any way?

[Heimdall]

God, people will never listen.
 
This new system does not make the game more challanging. I'm sure I can easily wipe out most enemies and survive encounters. The problem is that I need to go back to camp from time to time to restock and heal. I am only human, and even if play with the best of my abilities, I'm sure there will be moments were enemies will deal some damage causing me to have to go back. And that is an waste of bloody time. This is an artificial difficulty, no challange is being added to the game, just an impractical system that causes us to spend time in this pointless activity while I could be just traveling instead.

You won't need to until you find the next camp if you're very good with your barriers. It's not an "artificial difficulty", it's an added dimension to combat. You need to plan ahead instead of just getting through the current encounter. How is that "artificial"?

[leaguer of one]

I never played BG games. And the thing is you don't actually need to ressuply in Origins. You can just buy potions from the merchants you run across and that should be enough. Now try to imagine if instead, you would need to stop in the middle of an major quest every half an hour or so, and fast travel back to the camp every time in order to heal and ressuply, and then only so you could continue the main quest. Does this sound practical or fun to you in any way?

If you play dao above normal you do. You REALLY do. Especially if you make your own potions, use poisons, make bombs, traps, and items that buff you.

[Heimdall]

I never played BG games. And the thing is you don't actually need to ressuply in Origins. You can just buy potions from the merchants you run across and that should be enough. Now try to imagine if instead, you would need to stop in the middle of an major quest every half an hour or so, and fast travel back to the camp every time in order to heal and ressuply, and then only so you could continue the main quest. Does this sound practical or fun to you in any way?

It sounds like you need to rethink your combat strategy, or lower the difficulty if you're losing health so quickly.

Honestly though, how can you say anything like this without knowing how distantly spaced the camps are?

[Bigdoser]

If you play dao above normal you do. You REALLY do. Especially if you make your own potions, use poisons, make bombs, traps, and items that buff you.

Yup I remember my nightmare run having 99 health potions and 20 greater health potions. They throw so much damage at you its just ugh and and I hate when a mage casts fireball >_>

[Eudaemonium]

This isn't DAO or DA2 just without healing, the entire system and the encounters have been designed around the lack of healing.

 

I kind of feel like this misunderstanding is basically the root of about 90% of all the critiques of the new system.

 

The other 10% are presumably people who liked the RP-flavour of being a healer, which I tend to see as a valid complaint.

[Muspade]

Yup I remember my nightmare run having 99 health potions and 20 greater health potions. They throw so much damage at you its just ugh and and I hate when a mage casts fireball >_>

FORCEFIELD; AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA! 

Pretty much the spell that got me through Nightmare with ease.

[KoorahUK]

I never played BG games. And the thing is you don't actually need to ressuply in Origins. You can just buy potions from the merchants you run across and that should be enough. Now try to imagine if instead, you would need to stop in the middle of an major quest every half an hour or so, and fast travel back to the camp every time in order to heal and ressuply, and then only so you could continue the main quest. Does this sound practical or fun to you in any way?

No it doesn't, but you are not describing the game design accurately. In the middle of a major quest you will come across new camps allowing you to restock, so you don't have to fast travel back to camp. In addition, thay have said that there will normally be potion tables near major bosses. This is not DAo/2 combat without healing - the entire deisgn of the combat and the environment in which you quest has been designed to address the new approach. 

[ushae]

I personally think this is an excellent decision. Or at least a step in the right direction.

 

Healing has always made encounters trivial on easy and made the higher difficulties necessitate 2 healers (I always play on Nightmare) we get a lot more flexibility this way and won't have to rely on a single class for survival. The new mechanics sound like we will have a lot more control through gear, abilities, potions and barriers. I think the lack of healing between fights will make encounters feel much more intense and meaningful. I like the idea of going back to the nearest camp to catch our breath and rest, it reminds me of old school games like Baldurs Gate.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Eudaemonium:  I don't disagree with the RP healers... but I just don't see it.  My main will still be a Protecter/Healer - Mage Knight Enchanter.

 

I'll get a crazy Focus Heal - Revive - my barriers will be insane (I'm going full Spirit tree to make them even stronger and more frequent).  And when I'm not doing that I can toss heal grenades and - of course - attack.  

 

I know people are freaking about concepts like healing grenades - but this is a fantasy world and magi-tech SHOULD be part of it.

 

This game has a LOT of healing - it's just not the conventional variety people are accustomed to.

 

It's not just religious folks who get irrational when they hold something sacred.  

[Jaison1986]

If you play dao above normal you do. You REALLY do. Especially if you make your own potions, use poisons, make bombs, traps, and items that buff you.

 

And that's the thing. Because it sounds like I will need to do just that in Inquisition while playing on normal. I'm sure people will make an thousands arguments against this opinion. But what will really define if this an good change or not is the general reaction of the players once they play the game.

[Sviken]

*sigh*

 

It's not about making things more challenging. It's about making different and more varied challenges. This isn't some "Dark Souls HARDCORE!!!!!" difficulty. If you are on an appropriate diificulty setting and fighting appropriate enemies, there's no reason what so ever to assume that you're going to have to backtrack regularly. If you find yourself doing so either find an area with lower level enemies, improve your playing skills or, if you don't find doing that enjoyable (which is a perfectly reasonably position and there's nothing wrong with it), lower the difficulty. Hell, it's been explicitly stated that even a 7 year old can pick up and play Easy.

 

And, actually, healing wasn't optional in previous games. Your health restored to full when you left combat. You were healed. And that is the basic problem with healing. It turns every single encouter into a self contained event, seriously limiting what can be done with the means of creating difficulty and the variety of challenges. By removing healing and controling the maximum amount of health that can be restored by limiting the maximum number of potions, the developers have far more flexibility in how they design encounters. No longer does every encounter worth fighting have to be able to kill the party. Instead they can have multiple encounters set up to wear you down over time. Yet, every now and then, they can still put in old style "party wipe" encounters by putting potion refills either side of them. Variety. The spice of life.

You're judging this on what? The gameplay explicitly showed that there are no "appropriate" encounters, you just fight who you face. I'm sorry, but you're bound to lose health in most fights which means you will have to drink your potions, there is no way around that. The upgraded barriers don't last long enough, don't get me started on the ordinary ones. Ok, let's just say I agree about the varied encounters, why not just make the potions unlimited or something, but make them cost serious money? This way you won't charge into battle, but on the other hand you won't be forced to returning every 20 min back to camp because you drained all of your 12 potions or something.

 

Remove the automatic healing, keep the healing spells, increase the cooldown, make potions cost more and voilà, you have a balanced game. This is removing healing entirely which will force you to go back to camp in a middle of a mission. Play on easy? Why should I play on easy when I want my game to be hard, but not force me to backtrack through missions? Not force me to play on tactical CAM or spend 10 min strategizing an entire fight? Aren't games meant to be fun? Say you're going to kill a boss and in the middle of the mission you don't have any potions left, what then? Return back to camp and then back to the boss? And I have the sneaky feeling that the game will force you to use a tank which is definetly not variety, it's just tiresome and confining. I doubt a "glass cannon" party will survive very long which no healing and such a limited amount of potions.

 

And as I already said, what about the people that like to play as a healer? They just get shafted? That's restricting.

 

Btw, about Dark Souls, it uses a similiar system, but it's way more balanced than what I'm seeing with Dragon Age. If you play Dark Souls right  you can pass it in 1 hour without getting hit and yet, you still have way more healing than Inquisition (you have 20 Estus Flask and 99 Humanity). It's an action based game where you can dodge practically every attack, this is an RPG where you will get hit no matter what.

[KoorahUK]

And that's the thing. Because it sounds like I will need to do just that in Inquisition while playing on normal. I'm sure people will make an thousands arguments against this opinion. But what will really define if this an good change or not is the general reaction of the players once they play the game.

No I don't think anyone will argue that you won't need to restock, but the issue is how much of a hardship this will be.

The camps will be way points out in the world, there will be many of them, they seem to be quite close together and are going to be passed through on route to my destinations anyway, I personally don't see why this is going to be so onerous but I do understand that its an unknown quantity.

[Morroian]

Well, yeah, healing is an archaic and outdated mechanic. Why would you want it in a modern game?

 

Where did this notion come from? Sounds like a rationalisation. Healing is still used in the majority of rpg type games.

[PhroXenGold]

You're judging this on what? The gameplay explicitly showed that there are no "appropriate" encounters, you just fight who you face. I'm sorry, but you're bound to lose health in most fights which means you will have to drink your potions, there is no way around that. The upgraded barriers don't last long enough, don't get me started on the ordinary ones. Ok, let's just say I agree about the varied encounters, why not just make the potions unlimited or something, but make them cost serious money? This way you won't charge into battle, but on the other hand you won't be forced to returning every 20 min back to camp because you drained all of your 12 potions or something

 

Of course there are "appropriate encounters". You don't have to fight everything. See some tough enemies when you're low on potions? Avoid them, it's a (semi-) open world. See an area where everyone is 5 levels high than you? Come back later. That's what "appropiate encounters" means. And of course you're going to lose health in every encounter. Thats the entire point of designing the system in this way. You're meant to slowly lose health over time. You're meant to run low on resources over time. But as you do so, you should be pusing on towards another camp or a potion refill point. I'm not going to say that you'll never have to backtrack, but I'll be amazed if it's a regular thing unless you're trying to play at a difficulty above your skill or are fighting enemies above your level.

 

And no, making infinite but expensive potions doesn't solve anything. It makes things far worse. What happens when you've no money left because you tried to fight content too tough for you? Well, too bad, no healing for you. Guess you're going to have to go farming money for a few hours before you can progress.

 

 

 

Remove the automatic healing, keep the healing spells, increase the cooldown, make potions cost more and voilà, you have a balanced game. This is removing healing entirely which will force you to go back to camp in a middle of a mission. Play on easy? Why should I play on easy when I want my game to be hard, but not force me to backtrack through missions? Not force me to play on tactical CAM or spend 10 min strategizing an entire fight? Aren't games meant to be fun? Say you're going to kill a boss and in the middle of the mission you don't have any potions left, what then? Return back to camp and then back to the boss? And I have the sneaky feeling that the game will force you to use a tank which is definetly not variety, it's just tiresome and confining. I doubt a "glass cannon" party will survive very long which no healing and such a limited amount of potions.

 

Increasing the cooldown of helaing does nothing to solve the underlying issues of healing spells making every encounter self contained. It might be balanced, but it's not a solution. If anything, again, it makes it worse, as it encourages you to wait around doing nothing while your heals come off cooldown.

 

And if you get to a boss and are low on potions....you use the potion refill points that are placed near bosses to prevent that exact issue...

 

And a "glass cannon" party doesn't survive well with healing either. In fact, a glass cannon build is likely to be much better without healing as there no longer the risk of getting one- or two-shotted through the silly burst damage that is a neccesity for enemies in healing based systems.

 

 

 

Btw, about Dark Souls, it uses a similiar system, but it's way more balanced than what I'm seeing with Dragon Age. If you play Dark Souls right you can pass it in 1 hour without getting hit and yet, you still have way more healing than Inquisition (you have 20 Estus Flask and 99 Humanity). It's an action based game where you can dodge practically every attack, this is an RPG where you will get hit no matter what.

 

It doesn't use a similar system at all, as you've just descibed. It's balanced around completely different concepts to DA:I. So why the comparison?

[Malvus]

Why exactly do you think this system will be more difficult than the previous one?

 

Not to mention, if all you want to do it look at the story, then play on easy difficulty. Surely such a mature adult as yourself could figure out how to do that, right?

You're thicker than a 20 inch steel plated wall. The thing is that they force it on every difficulty. Also, having an option to enable and disable out of combat healing in the gameplay options could also fix this. Removing a whole class from the game isn't doing anyone any favors. Unless you're Napoleon and you go about playing a video game with delusions of grandeur. It's a video game, get over yourself. Not everyone expects to win an Oscar award the second they finish playing a game on masochist difficulties. 

[PhroXenGold]

Where did this notion come from? Sounds like a rationalisation. Healing is still used in the majority of rpg type games.

 

It was a silly little throwaway remark in response to that foul mouthed kid talking about "progress". I wasn't actually being serious.

[PhroXenGold]

You're thicker than a 20 inch steel plated wall. The thing is that they force it on every difficulty. Also, having an option to enable and disable out of combat healing in the gameplay options could also fix this. Removing a whole class from the game isn't doing anyone any favors. Unless you're Napoleon and you go about playing a video game with delusions of grandeur. It's a video game, get over yourself. Not everyone expects to win an Oscar award the second they finish playing a game on masochist difficulties. 

 

 Read your own posts kid, read your own posts.

[Sir DeLoria]

Welp, I now have no reason to ever take a mage with me.

[dutch_gamer]

Welp, I now have no reason to ever take a mage with me.

Not even for barrier?