2061 réponses à ce sujet

[Elhanan]

The 8 slots are for game balancing just like healing. They are looking to improve combat from being a giant healfest.  If they limit the abilities of players and also limit your ability to heal, then guess what, they don't have to have enemies capable of 1 hitting you for no reason or with eleventy billion hit points for no reason to make it a good fight.  So many of DAO and DA2's enemies had insane hitpoints and one hit attacks just to account for the healing ability of characters. This resulted in battles becoming grind fests of healing and attacking.
 
If you limit the abilities you can use enemies don't have to nonsensically have huge amounts of hitpoints, and if you massively redo healing, then combat can be a threat without having to result to one hit kills.  Sure some creatures will still have uber hitpoints- It makes sense on a dragon, not so much on a human or dwarf or Qunari you are the same level as.  Also if you are outleveled you will still possibly get one hit killed- giants with bolders-but when the monster you are attacking outlevels you by 8-10 levels that makes sense.
 
 
  Also, you don't fully heal after combat, because part of going on a quest/mission/dungeon crawl is to have the element of strategically using your supplies to get the job done without getting magically healed every battle.  It adds suspense and planning to the battles.
 
In addition they have said that often there are places that you can heal up or restock right before big battles, and that often if you are fighting and you beat a big boss, it will unlock a camp right after it for you to resupply at.
 
As for difficulty.  A 7 year old played on casual for 3 hours without dying.  I think those of you who don't want the combat to be difficult will be fine.

While I agree that the healing aspect should be fine, the removals made to eight slots are questionable. There are already set slots for potions, so that wasn't a factor, and with most healing magic absent, slot limitations do not seem to be a huge factor there either.

What it does accomplish is to limit choice during combat, and we either re-load, or leave and return with the correct combo needed. Prefer to have the options at hand the first time, then re-load if my tactics and/ or luck have failed.

And one does not apparently have to limit Attributes or abilities to have high HP; take another look at the bears as an example.

[Elevon]

While I agree that the healing aspect should be fine, the removals made to eight slots are questionable. There are already set slots for potions, so that wasn't a factor, and with most healing magic absent, slot limitations do not seem to be a huge factor there either.

What it does accomplish is to limit choice during combat, and we either re-load, or leave and return with the correct combo needed. Prefer to have the options at hand the first time, then re-load if my tactics and/ or luck have failed.

And one does not apparently have to limit Attributes or abilities to have high HP; take another look at the bears as an example.

 

 

I always liked  having more slots  and so more options  for my magic skills so another thing they have limited,forget about healing for the moment,all I keep reading  is this  a good thing they have done well I beg to differ, but as I keep saying I've concerns but  my final judgement will wait until I'm playing the game.

[animedreamer]

i dont understand  the idea of having to reload the correct load out. If you specced one party member to be a tank, then he should have the tank skills to tank, thats what you built him or her toward, they are a tank, there are multiple ways to tank but there is no NOT a tank option that can fool you into thinking you are one. Same goes for a rogue, if you specced the rogue to be a trap master, throwing down debilitating/control effects then you should have that as well as whatever other skills you picked for them. How many slots do you honestly need for that? 8 skill slots, filled with actual skills seems like more than enough. Spellcasters I can kind of understand if you look at it in the origin frame of mind. In Origins there are no passives, every spell bought is a active skill that can be used. However in DA2 and in DAI a lot of the skill points you will likely use will be to improve one or more active spells, so your load out isn't going to fill up to full by lv 8 unless you actively avoid all passives which in that case is likely weakening you anyway, no matter how many spells you have the option of throwing out.

[wcholcombe]

While I agree that the healing aspect should be fine, the removals made to eight slots are questionable. There are already set slots for potions, so that wasn't a factor, and with most healing magic absent, slot limitations do not seem to be a huge factor there either.

What it does accomplish is to limit choice during combat, and we either re-load, or leave and return with the correct combo needed. Prefer to have the options at hand the first time, then re-load if my tactics and/ or luck have failed.

And one does not apparently have to limit Attributes or abilities to have high HP; take another look at the bears as an example.

The bear has a lot of hitpoints true, but playing on hard they will have more hitpoints-as they were in that stream- but it still doesn't have millions of hitpoints like some of the enemies in the previous games.

 

This isn't anything new btw. In most RPGs there were a limit to how many spells you had access to or how many times you could cast that spell.  It is slightly overpowering to have a mage in DAO or DA2 that can just spam big AOE spells as long as they have mana. The cool downs don't mean anything if you have 4 or 5 spells to rotate through.

[SlyTF1]

After combat, Heath regen is set at 50% for Easy, 25% for Normal, and 10% for Hard/ Nightmare, I believe.

 

50% is good enough for me. 

[Elhanan]

The bear has a lot of hitpoints true, but playing on hard they will have more hitpoints-as they were in that stream- but it still doesn't have millions of hitpoints like some of the enemies in the previous games.
 
This isn't anything new btw. In most RPGs there were a limit to how many spells you had access to or how many times you could cast that spell.  It is slightly overpowering to have a mage in DAO or DA2 that can just spam big AOE spells as long as they have mana. The cool downs don't mean anything if you have 4 or 5 spells to rotate through.

Personally I turn off HP indicators for Health and Damage; too many effects become too busy for my senses. And I do not recall being able to spam AoE spells in either previous game, though I did overlap some when another Mage was included in the party. Waiting for a decent length of time on cooldowns cannot be called Spamming, which is more like the rapid use of the same effect.

[Elhanan]

50% is good enough for me.

The recent stream indicated that Alchemy stations may be used to craft Regen potions, too; should help.

[Gothfather]

While I agree that the healing aspect should be fine, the removals made to eight slots are questionable. There are already set slots for potions, so that wasn't a factor, and with most healing magic absent, slot limitations do not seem to be a huge factor there either.

What it does accomplish is to limit choice during combat, and we either re-load, or leave and return with the correct combo needed. Prefer to have the options at hand the first time, then re-load if my tactics and/ or luck have failed.

And one does not apparently have to limit Attributes or abilities to have high HP; take another look at the bears as an example.

 

limited load outs isn't new, Guild Wars had 8 slots only and that was for PC only. One of the effects of having a limited active skill set is that it creates buzz in the community as people talk about what combos are the "best" and why. That is important to the long term health of a game. The more people are excited about a game the more they talk about and the more they talk about the more likely they are to buy a DLC the more people buy a DLC the longer a game is support and the more content is provided.

 

I don't see the issue with attribute like you do. I see they removed the choice with attributes from the lvl up to screen and instead added this type of choice to the crafting screen. I can still build non standard stat builds but now I get flexibility. I can build different stat builds with the same character via different sets of equipment. giving me more versatility than i had before.

[Elhanan]

i dont understand  the idea of having to reload the correct load out. If you specced one party member to be a tank, then he should have the tank skills to tank, thats what you built him or her toward, they are a tank, there are multiple ways to tank but there is no NOT a tank option that can fool you into thinking you are one. Same goes for a rogue, if you specced the rogue to be a trap master, throwing down debilitating/control effects then you should have that as well as whatever other skills you picked for them. How many slots do you honestly need for that? 8 skill slots, filled with actual skills seems like more than enough. Spellcasters I can kind of understand if you look at it in the origin frame of mind. In Origins there are no passives, every spell bought is a active skill that can be used. However in DA2 and in DAI a lot of the skill points you will likely use will be to improve one or more active spells, so your load out isn't going to fill up to full by lv 8 unless you actively avoid all passives which in that case is likely weakening you anyway, no matter how many spells you have the option of throwing out.

Offensive vs Defensive choices, Elemental selections, Crowd Control or AoE, etc; lots of possibilities that are now more limited during battle. Recent Stream revealed that certain Spellcasters were Immune to Cold; good luck when armed with those as primary effects on your Mage.

Prefer to have tactical options on the table; not back in camp.

[Elhanan]

limited load outs isn't new, Guild Wars had 8 slots only and that was for PC only. One of the effects of having a limited active skill set is that it creates buzz in the community as people talk about what combos are the "best" and why. That is important to the long term health of a game. The more people are excited about a game the more they talk about and the more they talk about the more likely they are to buy a DLC the more people buy a DLC the longer a game is support and the more content is provided.
 
I don't see see the issue with attribute like you do. I seee they removed the choice with attributes from the lvl up to screen and instead added this type of choice to the crafting screen. I can still build non standard stat builds but now I get flexibility. I can build different stat builds with the same character via different sets of equipment. giving me more versatility than i had before.

Our vision differs a lot.

If MMO's are to be emulated, then I prefer the Patch from SWTOR that allowed for Player Customized UI. One could have as many, or as few abilities loaded as they wished. Player controlled seemed to work well there.

DLC is starting for DA-MP; not planning on using it much myself, so am as likely to skip it as I did for ME3-MP.

Removing options from the base design and greater restrictions likely means less use of those Attributes not considered core values. Or Crafting items that have +36 Magic that will vanish if switched to another Elemental type, or are confiscated or stolen. Prefer the character to have the bonuses,; not just the items. Both would have possible been so much sweeter.

[animedreamer]

Offensive vs Defensive choices, Elemental selections, Crowd Control or AoE, etc; lots of possibilities that are now more limited during battle. Recent Stream revealed that certain Spellcasters were Immune to Cold; good luck when armed with those as primary effects on your Mage.

Prefer to have tactical options on the table; not back in camp.

 

And you think this never came up in any other game system? One of the most basic rules of wizardary is to learn at least one non elemental spell, in DnD it's magic missile, in Dragon Age it was Arcane Bolt. We also know that some spells change their elemental component based on what type of elemental staff you are wielding so in that case carry 2 staffs around (god knows with upgradable inventory slots you can carry 3 or 4 different sets of armor and a few spare weapons),. My point is, if you think about it you can probably figure out another way around any obstacle. Worried about your wizard who only has ice spells going up against wizards who are immune to ice, what about your other 3 companions? Don't tell me they are all specced the same exact way? have the Warrior Grappling Hook him and kick him to the ground only after having set up a nice trap to spring when he gets their by having the rogue set up a caltrops trap, then proceed to backstab the hell out of the downed mage while presumably you mage and the 4th companion throw up barriers and attack other targets.

[Elevon]

And you think this never came up in any other game system? One of the most basic rules of wizardary is to learn at least one non elemental spell, in DnD it's magic missile, in Dragon Age it was Arcane Bolt. We also know that some spells change their elemental component based on what type of elemental staff you are wielding so in that case carry 2 staffs around (god knows with upgradable inventory slots you can carry 3 or 4 different sets of armor and a few spare weapons),. My point is, if you think about it you can probably figure out another way around any obstacle. Worried about your wizard who only has ice spells going up against wizards who are immune to ice, what about your other 3 companions? Don't tell me they are all specced the same exact way? have the Warrior Grappling Hook him and kick him to the ground only after having set up a nice trap to spring when he gets their by having the rogue set up a caltrops trap, then proceed to backstab the hell out of the downed mage while presumably you mage and the 4th companion throw up barriers and attack other targets.

 

Not quite the  same thing,as  my main mage  character I like to pick my offensive,defensive,AOE,heal spells etc ,to me this part of the fun in gaming,reducing them is reducing my fun,you can argue all day about this but suddenly my mage is more like a padawan,good move not.

 

Reducing choices and options not a good idea.

 

Tell you what I stick to pac man that way  I'll not worry about spells or slots and  healing,attributes,see my point?

[animedreamer]

Not quite the  same thing,as  my main mage  character I like to pick my offensive,defensive,AOE,heal spells etc ,to me this part of the fun in gaming,reducing them is reducing my fun,you can argue all day about this but suddenly my mage is more like a padawan,good move not.

 

Reducing choices and options not a good idea.

 

How so? Elhanan named 4 types of choices he likes on a mage, you have 8 slots to fill with active skills, thats 2 of each of those types of choices though technically healing isn't even taking up one of those slots since you can always use a heal potion which is counted separately, but like you said, if you don't want to reason or adapt then no amount of arguing will persuade you.

[Elhanan]

And you think this never came up in any other game system? One of the most basic rules of wizardary is to learn at least one non elemental spell, in DnD it's magic missile, in Dragon Age it was Arcane Bolt. We also know that some spells change their elemental component based on what type of elemental staff you are wielding so in that case carry 2 staffs around (god knows with upgradable inventory slots you can carry 3 or 4 different sets of armor and a few spare weapons),. My point is, if you think about it you can probably figure out another way around any obstacle. Worried about your wizard who only has ice spells going up against wizards who are immune to ice, what about your other 3 companions? Don't tell me they are all specced the same exact way? have the Warrior Grappling Hook him and kick him to the ground only after having set up a nice trap to spring when he gets their by having the rogue set up a caltrops trap, then proceed to backstab the hell out of the downed mage while presumably you mage and the 4th companion throw up barriers and attack other targets.

And yet in NWN, we had more than eight Quickslots; helps with versatility. But here, we only have eight for the same battle, so re-load or leave, respec, and return if one guessed incorrectly.

[Elevon]

How so? Elhanan named 4 types of choices he likes on a mage, you have 8 slots to fill with active skills, thats 2 of each of those types of choices though technically healing isn't even taking up one of those slots since you can always use a heal potion which is counted separately, but like you said, if you don't want to reason or adape then no amount of arguing will persuade you.

 

 

Two is not a lot of each,I'm a  person  used to having all my slots used for skills organised  ie Def,AOE etc like in DA2 etc so massive reduction.

 

 

It's easer for the gamer to remove them from slots in DA2 for example  but still having the option to use them  all  when needed then having  very  limited option of  only eight.

 

 

DAO and DA2 you had the choice on how many slots YOU wanted to use,DA:I sorry eight only so tough luck.

 

As to adapting we have no choice but to adapt,does not mean I like or am happy with it,IMHO I think it was not a good move,but what do I know as a beta games tester .

 

 

As to magic healing they could of increased cool down times  to avoid spamming  but I guess that was too obvious,or more like no room on eight slots for them,I keep seeing poor excuses on reasons why  they done this and that etc...

 

animedreamer I hope you can see my point of view,anyway lets hope it turns out to be a great game .

[Elhanan]

How so? Elhanan named 4 types of choices he likes on a mage, you have 8 slots to fill with active skills, thats 2 of each of those types of choices though technically healing isn't even taking up one of those slots since you can always use a heal potion which is counted separately, but like you said, if you don't want to reason or adapt then no amount of arguing will persuade you.

I named four, plus Etc, and Elements may have five types as in DA2. That is one per slot; none for Etc or Misc usage. Tons of options....

[Shahadem]

The bear has a lot of hitpoints true, but playing on hard they will have more hitpoints-as they were in that stream- but it still doesn't have millions of hitpoints like some of the enemies in the previous games.

 

This isn't anything new btw. In most RPGs there were a limit to how many spells you had access to or how many times you could cast that spell.  It is slightly overpowering to have a mage in DAO or DA2 that can just spam big AOE spells as long as they have mana. The cool downs don't mean anything if you have 4 or 5 spells to rotate through.

 

Constantly throwing out big AOEs is exactly how a high level mage should play. I'd rather have a game become super easy if that is what is required by the game world, than creating artificial difficulty which conflicts with the game world and the player's expectations about the ability of their character.

[Shahadem]

@seraphymon:  Complaining is such a weaselly way to affect change.  It's literally saying:  "I don't like it, someone else do something about it." 

 

I'm not complaining about the people who don't like it.  You're absolutely free not to like anything about Dragon Age: Inquisition and I won't tell you you're wrong not to.

 

What I will tell you - is that you're wrong if you think your dislike is anything more than just opinion.  "Dumbing down"  "Less options"  "Destroying the fabric of gaming."  blah blah blah - it's funny to see fundamentalist gamers acting just like fundamentalist religious folks.  Traditions must be upheld!  I know what's right!  Change will ruin everything! 

 

I'm also here to counter your argument so Bioware can make an informed decision on the event that they actually read these giant whine threads (I wouldn't).  I am excited about the change and I encourage Bioware to continue to experiment.  

 

Don't mince words. If you are gonna to complain about the people who don't like the removal of healing, just come out and say it. Don't lie to our face, especially when the rest of your post is clearly complaining about the people who don't like the removal of healing.

[Shahadem]

No, they are asking you to use the tools that are available to you to play the combat they have designed on a difficulty level appropriate to your skill or desired challenge level. If you are leaving every combat having taken "too much damage" you are not doing at least one of those three things. 

 

This is no different from any other game with rules in the world.

 

It is exactly as I said. If the game is a constant string of combat, then the attrition will force you to have to save and reload to maintain the maximum amount of hp so that you can continue exploring. Otherwise you will have to slog all the way back to a camp just to have to reslog back to where you were for no real reason. Where it takes longer to backtrack than to save and reload, players will make the choice to save and reload until they get through each encounter with minimal loss of hp. No matter how you use the options at your disposal, you could still screwup, or get unlucky, or have something unexpected happen. I mean if the game is nothing but doing the same motions over and over again because those motions are the maximally efficient use of hp and any other option would cause you to have to reload or backtrack more, then the game will become a tedious chore.

 

Being able to mix things up in combat and not have to worry about where you stand when the fight is over is really a necessity for a dungeon crawler like any DA game. Not having hp and spells naturally regenerate at an acceptable rate was one of the biggest mistakes of the BG series. That's also why I hate Dark Souls. Well one of the reasons.

 

While I am sure that some people like you like having to constantly backtrack or stop playing the game, I don't.

[Morroian]

It is giving me a real concern that Bioware devs are going to read all this negativity and decide "What's the freaking point?  They are just going to complain anyway, so why try anything new if people won't even give it a chance?"  

 

The BW devs don't help themselves by not explaining in detail why implement changes like the 8 ability limit and the reduced number of ability choices. They sort of did for healing but they should have done it for the other changes as well. 

[Morroian]

limited load outs isn't new, Guild Wars had 8 slots only and that was for PC only. 

 

Guild wars is an mmo there are good reasons for having a LAS in an mmo, not so for a SP game.

 

Plus Guild Wars has many more classes and many more abilities than DAI which counteracts to an extent the lack of variety the 8 ability limit imposes. Even then GW2 the majority of people only use a few favoured builds. 

[sylvanaerie]

It is exactly as I said. If the game is a constant string of combat, then the attrition will force you to have to save and reload to maintain the maximum amount of hp so that you can continue exploring. Otherwise you will have to slog all the way back to a camp just to have to reslog back to where you were for no real reason. Where it takes longer to backtrack than to save and reload, players will make the choice to save and reload until they get through each encounter with minimal loss of hp. No matter how you use the options at your disposal, you could still screwup, or get unlucky, or have something unexpected happen. I mean if the game is nothing but doing the same motions over and over again because those motions are the maximally efficient use of hp and any other option would cause you to have to reload or backtrack more, then the game will become a tedious chore.

 

Being able to mix things up in combat and not have to worry about where you stand when the fight is over is really a necessity for a dungeon crawler like any DA game. Not having hp and spells naturally regenerate at an acceptable rate was one of the biggest mistakes of the BG series. That's also why I hate Dark Souls. Well one of the reasons.

 

While I am sure that some people like you like having to constantly backtrack or stop playing the game, I don't.

 

 

Can we please keep the discussion civil?  Finger pointing, blaming other players and sniping doesn't become you.  I realize the debate gets heated when people come from diametrically opposed viewpoints, and tempers fray, but please, I don't want anyone being banned because they let their emotions run away with their fingers.

 

I have concerns.  But I love the games Bioware makes.  The changes (except for the no healing thing) aren't something totally unfamiliar to anyone who plays MMO's.  I'm not the most tactical player, so I expect to die a lot as I learn how to deal with combat.  That's okay, I've accepted it.

If the changes are too much for you to accept, I suggest waiting to get the game till the first reviews come in from other players.  Or if it's a deal breaker for you, just don't buy it.

[DarthLaxian]

How so? Elhanan named 4 types of choices he likes on a mage, you have 8 slots to fill with active skills, thats 2 of each of those types of choices though technically healing isn't even taking up one of those slots since you can always use a heal potion which is counted separately, but like you said, if you don't want to reason or adapt then no amount of arguing will persuade you.

 

And it shouldn't either.

 

With this move, they toss in-combat-adaptation to the situation right out of the window...if your enemy suddenly summons say a fire-immune demon and your mage only has fire spells (maybe even a fire-staff?), some CC, one slot (at least) locked up with a barrier spell (do we know if there's only AOE-Barrier or if we can do single-target barriers as well or additionally...for longer fights that would be nice, to shield the tank more) then your damage drops considerably for this fight - meaning your party will take more damage (enemies that take ages to die can dish out more damage), you need to backtrack earlier, well done, really ...sorry, that's so fail IMHO (if I want limited spells I will play Diablo III or League of Legends...I hope there's a mod for this soon... and cheats to refill your potions (console...hope they have one like in DA:O and DA2)

 

With a DA:O mage character you could now use other abilities - but now: you don't have access...god-damned, my mage literally plays like an apprentice (a bad one at that)...a senior-enchanter should have access to all his skills in combat

 

greetings LAX

[Gothfather]

It is exactly as I said. If the game is a constant string of combat, then the attrition will force you to have to save and reload to maintain the maximum amount of hp so that you can continue exploring. Otherwise you will have to slog all the way back to a camp just to have to reslog back to where you were for no real reason. Where it takes longer to backtrack than to save and reload, players will make the choice to save and reload until they get through each encounter with minimal loss of hp. No matter how you use the options at your disposal, you could still screwup, or get unlucky, or have something unexpected happen. I mean if the game is nothing but doing the same motions over and over again because those motions are the maximally efficient use of hp and any other option would cause you to have to reload or backtrack more, then the game will become a tedious chore.

 

Being able to mix things up in combat and not have to worry about where you stand when the fight is over is really a necessity for a dungeon crawler like any DA game. Not having hp and spells naturally regenerate at an acceptable rate was one of the biggest mistakes of the BG series. That's also why I hate Dark Souls. Well one of the reasons.

 

While I am sure that some people like you like having to constantly backtrack or stop playing the game, I don't.

 

All you are saying is QQ i don't want to be forced to deal with the concequences of my exploritory choices. And the concequences are... Oh my god i might have to go back to to the camp!!!. We have been told by people who have played that returning to the camp isn't as often or as argerous as some people's fears are.

 

If you are the type of person who picks up every piece of loot possible and fills their bags up so fast you'll have to return to the camp or town often to sell your gear then thats a concequence. Frankly I have no sympathy for players that complain because they have to stop exploring and return to sell gear. Nor do I for someone that has to kill every enemy they see.

 

If no health regen combat is something that means you just WONT like the combat then you have as i see it two options

 

1) play on easy and at least always be at 1/2 health after a fight.

 

2) Show Bioware your displeasure and DON'T buy the game.

 

Saying you don't like it is a subjective stance and so many people hold the opposite view.

 

I have no idea if its going to work but I refuse to tell Bioware its SUCKS before I try it myself.

[sylvanaerie]

All you are saying is QQ i don't want to be forced to deal with the concequences of my exploritory choices. And the concequences are... Oh my god i might have to go back to to the camp!!!. We have bee told by people who have played that returning to the camp isn't as often or as argerous as some people's fears are.

 

If you are the type of person who picks up every piece of loot possible and fills their bags up so fast you'll have to return to the camp often or town to sell your gear. Frankly I have no sympathy for players that complain because they have to stop exploring and return to sell gear. Nor do I for someone that has to kill every enemy they see.

 

If no health regen combat is something that means you just WONT like the combat then you have as i see it two options

 

1) play on easy and at least always be at 1/2 health after a fight.

 

2) Show Bioware your displeasure and DON'T buy the game.

 

Saying you don't like it is a subjective stance and so many people hold the opposite view.

 

I have no idea if its going to work but I refuse to tell Bioware its SUCKS before I try it myself.

 

Have they said what capacity our bags hold?  I tend to grab everything I come across.  And does crafting stuff go into our bags as well or into a 'holding' slot for use later--kind of like it did in DA2?