2061 réponses à ce sujet

[TristynTrine]

Really wanted to be a healer/support like I was in DA:O, depression, was gonna let Dorian do all the elementaling for me lol

[bubs]

Really wanted to be a healer/support like I was in DA:O, depression, was gonna let Dorian do all the elementaling for me lol

 

Dude, support role is NOT gone, just healing spells. Don't worry.

[Thandal N'Lyman]

Wait.  Do I misunderstand something?  BioWare makes wounds and combat injuries actually matter and people are upset? 

 

Internetz are aflame because there are only 8 energy drinks (which works out to 2-per-Party-Member, or 4-per-frontline-fighter) before having to fall back to one's safehouse and recover?  I'm shocked!

[Shahadem]

Wait.  Do I misunderstand something?  BioWare makes wounds and combat injuries actually matter and people are upset? 

 

Internetz are aflame because there are only 8 energy drinks (which works out to 2-per-Party-Member, or 4-per-frontline fighter) before having to fall back to one's safehouse and recover?  I'm shocked!

 

They don't matter since they are inflicted by mobs that don't matter, from mobs using combat mechanics that are essentially rockemsockem robot style combat, in a game that doesn't allow magic to be anywhere near as powerful as it should be nor operate as it clearly must be made to operate. IE mages should be able to heal wounds after leaving combat or heal wounds during combat if they are provided the protection needed to concentrate long enough to get the wounded party member healed up enough to reenter combat.

 

Bioware can't both remove the ability of mages to magically heal the party instantly but continue to allow chemicals to magically heal the party instantly. That creates a huge plot hole that tears any sense of believeability or immersion away from the game.

[Shahadem]

I don't know where people are getting the idea that health regenerates after a fight. I'm pretty sure the regeneration is from when you get revived. In the streams we've watched, health has never regened after you leave combat...only when you come back from the dead.

But that aside, they've specifically shown regeneration potions, perks that allow additional health pot capacity and have mentioned aoe heal grenades and the ability to craft equipment that has heal on kill...so it's not like there won't be options. It's just much more finite and limited as opposed to being cooldown limited as with heal spells. 

 

WTF? AOE heal grenades? I guess Bioware said **** immersion or trying to maintain a cohesive, consistent and logical game world. SO they don't allow magical healing which is clearly the only type of healing that could actually heal someone, but they allow grenades to heal magically? That's just beyond stupid.

 

This is even more stupid than the magical healing lasers in SWTOR. In fact, the healing grenade seems to have been pulled directly from SWTOR, and it was stupid even in that game. Here it's way beyond stupid because they are telling you mages can no longer heal, but ****** grenades can magically heal you even though THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE!

[Johnny Shepard]

The thing I have against it are that healing spells are such a big part of fantasy and RPGs and they have always had a big part in the Dragon Age games and lore. Just not having them because they don't want people to healspam (witch you couldn't in DA2 and with all the cooldowns on healing and potions I died a lot on harder difficulties) and instead putting in new ridicules things like healing grenade and buffs on armor/weapons instead just feels wrong to me. Not to mention that they haven't made such a great job at showing how good it will work on hard since all gameplay I have seen them showing were they play on hard ends with the party dying.

I always play on hard when playing Dragon Age but now I just don't know and start to wander if maybe I should stick with normal this time because if the devs themselves who made the system can't handle hard, how am I suppose to be able to do it

 

I think this thing with no healing spells are one of those things that they will later regret (like no stamina potions in Origins, no auto-attack in DA2 and re-using maps) and put healing in the next game or maybe even in a future big DLC.

[Shahadem]

All you are saying is QQ i don't want to be forced to deal with the concequences of my exploritory choices. And the concequences are... Oh my god i might have to go back to to the camp!!!. We have been told by people who have played that returning to the camp isn't as often or as argerous as some people's fears are.

 

If you are the type of person who picks up every piece of loot possible and fills their bags up so fast you'll have to return to the camp or town often to sell your gear then thats a concequence. Frankly I have no sympathy for players that complain because they have to stop exploring and return to sell gear. Nor do I for someone that has to kill every enemy they see.

 

If no health regen combat is something that means you just WONT like the combat then you have as i see it two options

 

1) play on easy and at least always be at 1/2 health after a fight.

 

2) Show Bioware your displeasure and DON'T buy the game.

 

Saying you don't like it is a subjective stance and so many people hold the opposite view.

 

I have no idea if its going to work but I refuse to tell Bioware its SUCKS before I try it myself.

 

You need to make an argument as to how the game is improved by creating artificial consequences. Or more specifically, how my playing experienced is improved by a change that I already know from past experience, from the games that use the exact same system, is just going to ****** me off. There isn't anything new here. We've already played lots of games that use a similar system and we know they were severely lacking.

 

And you are missing a third choice.

 

Tell Bioware on their forums that the provided precisely for the purpose of garnering feedback that we don't like this kind of system. Something which they probably already knew but decided to just make the change anyways.

 

I can tell Bioware it sucks because I've already experienced this system before.

 

Also, if I don't buy the game, Bioware won't know why I didn't buy the game, so not buying the game will accomplish nothing.

[AresKeith]

WTF? AOE heal grenades? I guess Bioware said **** immersion or trying to maintain a cohesive, consistent and logical game world. SO they don't allow magical healing which is clearly the only type of healing that could actually heal someone, but they allow grenades to heal magically? That's just beyond stupid.

 

This is even more stupid than the magical healing lasers in SWTOR. In fact, the healing grenade seems to have been pulled directly from SWTOR, and it was stupid even in that game. Here it's way beyond stupid because they are telling you mages can no longer heal, but ****** grenades can magically heal you even though THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE!

 

Are you really trying to say that towards gameplay?

[Meltemph]

They don't matter since they are inflicted by mobs that don't matter, from mobs using combat mechanics that are essentially rockemsockem robot style combat, in a game that doesn't allow magic to be anywhere near as powerful as it should be nor operate as it clearly must be made to operate. IE mages should be able to heal wounds after leaving combat or heal wounds during combat if they are provided the protection needed to concentrate long enough to get the wounded party member healed up enough to reenter combat.

 

Bioware can't both remove the ability of mages to magically heal the party instantly but continue to allow chemicals to magically heal the party instantly. That creates a huge plot hole that tears any sense of believeability or immersion away from the game.

It does not create a plot hole. Mage healers(Creation school) are suppose to be rare, same with mediums. Not every mage will master the healing arts, and in this case the inquisitor is one of them who doesnt master the creation school. I was actually hoping schools would be more cut off, based on the race you chose(but I assume they would get complaints here as well), just for flavor to the story/races. I think this is more realistic to the lore as well, since there were clearly schools, where one mastered, judging by how they were talked about in the codex's. 

[Meltemph]

WTF? AOE heal grenades? I guess Bioware said **** immersion or trying to maintain a cohesive, consistent and logical game world. SO they don't allow magical healing which is clearly the only type of healing that could actually heal someone, but they allow grenades to heal magically? That's just beyond stupid.

 

This is even more stupid than the magical healing lasers in SWTOR. In fact, the healing grenade seems to have been pulled directly from SWTOR, and it was stupid even in that game. Here it's way beyond stupid because they are telling you mages can no longer heal, but ****** grenades can magically heal you even though THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE!

In a world where potions can heal you from battle wounds, you find heal gasses to be "immersion breaking"? Hmm, ok then.

[ResistanceKnight]

Out of idle curiosity, if you turn friendly fire on will the healing grenades heal any enemies as well?

[Shahadem]

I get the analogy.  Remove the best option, and the 4 you wouldn't consider open up. It's not 'more' options, it's more viable options because the one everyone would pick is removed from the equation.  Where previously you had 1 best option and 4 not as good, the best would be the one you'd want.  With that gone, you have to choose from among the ones you have left.

 

I love healing and being a healing mage.  That's my preferred roleplay choice.  But that option is removed from me so I'm having to turn to a secondary choice.  Maybe I'll love it.  Maybe I'll hate it.  I won't know till I play.  I'm having to rethink how I do the RP but it's still going to be there. Instead of people, my Inquisitor will heal rifts.  She will be the only one in her world that can.  

And that's pretty damn unique enough for me.

 

But you haven't changed anything.

 

The only change you've made is to create a system that allows you to see what everyone prefers. But if we assume people are still choosing based on maximizing their own utility, then nothing will have actually changed from the choosers perspective as they will still be choosing the option that maximizes their total utility. The only ones who will see a change are the ones making the offer. But they aren't the people who this offer was designed to benefit. So now you've significantly lowered the utility of the choosers solely for the benefit of the choosees (as the only benefit derived from the choosees is in using the rewards to measure preferences or forcing their own vision on others).

 

You might also have a situation where people don't actually know which choice will maximize their utility, so the choices they make are semi-random and thus don't even show player preference because players are not given the information needed to make an informed choice.

 

And telling people to try it before making an opinion is essentially telling people that Bioware or you know that person's preferences better than the person knows their own preferences, which is utterly ridiculous.

[Johnny Shepard]

Healing spells are for cowards.

 

No, but seriously...if your potions replenish each time you go to camp, then what's the big deal?

Well, to me it's sort of like taking away swords. Sure, you have lots of other weapons for warriors to do damage with but not being able to make a warrior with a sword would really feel wrong. The same is with not being able to make a mage who can heal. Or how you couldn't make a wizard with a beard or a Argonian with a spear in Oblivion.

[Meltemph]

Well, to me it's sort of like taking away swords. Sure, you have lots of other weapons for warriors to do damage with but not being able to make a warrior with a sword would really feel wrong. The same is with not being able to make a mage who can heal. Or how you couldn't make a wizard with a beard or a Argonian with a spear in Oblivion.

Eh, I personally like this change. It makes creation healers feel as rare as they say they are in the game. I'm sure they will bring creation school back, via DLC and what not, but right now they, imo, are going to balance it where you dont need a healer and then work from there, I'd bet.

[AresKeith]

In a world where potions can heal you from battle wounds, you find heal gasses to be "immersion breaking"? Hmm, ok then.

 

Don't forget gear that can regenerate your health

[Meltemph]

Don't forget gear that can regenerate your health

Ya, between lyrium, herbology, and runestones it seems there is a LOT of room for non-magic conventional healing in the world of Thedas. 

[AlanC9]

But if we assume people are still choosing based on maximizing their own utility, then nothing will have actually changed from the choosers perspective as they will still be choosing the option that maximizes their total utility.
 

I don't see how nothing will have changed. The process of choosing will be quite different depending on what choices are offered. I agree that the actual utility -- meaning combat efficiency, right? -- won't really change much, since the game will be balanced around the choices that are in it rather than the choices that aren't. But the process of getting there could be quite different.

[Johnny Shepard]

Ya, between lyrium, herbology, and runestones it seems there is a LOT of room for non-magic conventional healing in the world of Thedas. 

Yeah, a little to much IMO.

 

Eh, I personally like this change. It makes creation healers feel as rare as they say they are in the game. I'm sure they will bring creation school back, via DLC and what not, but right now they, imo, are going to balance it where you dont need a healer and then work from there, I'd bet.

Yeah, maybe, and hopefully. And healing itself isn't rare, spirithealing is.

[Almostfaceman]

And telling people to try it before making an opinion is essentially telling people that Bioware or you know that person's preferences better than the person knows their own preferences, which is utterly ridiculous.

 

There a lot of things I preferred not to do, when I was forced to do them I ended up liking them. So, this statement is utterly ridiculous. You may not like an idea, but you can't have a firm grasp of the idea or its ramifications until you try it out. Especially with something as complex as the game mechanics, not something cosmetic. 

 

Now, we're not talking about preferences like "I'd prefer not to jump out of a plane without a parachute" or "I'd prefer not to test out how resistant I am to being splashed with hydrochloric acid." Game mechanics don't fit into such a simple category, generally. 

 

So, yes, this is something you actually have to try before most will respect your opinion that you "don't like it."

[Meltemph]

Yeah, a little to much IMO.

 

Yeah, maybe, and hopefully. And healing itself isn't rare, spirithealing is.

The creation school in general, is rare for mages to master though, and that is healing. I wasnt talking about spirit healing. As for your 1st statement, I disagree not much more to say about that.

[sylvanaerie]

But you haven't changed anything.

 

The only change you've made is to create a system that allows you to see what everyone prefers. But if we assume people are still choosing based on maximizing their own utility, then nothing will have actually changed from the choosers perspective as they will still be choosing the option that maximizes their total utility. The only ones who will see a change are the ones making the offer. But they aren't the people who this offer was designed to benefit. So now you've significantly lowered the utility of the choosers solely for the benefit of the choosees (as the only benefit derived from the choosees is in using the rewards to measure preferences or forcing their own vision on others).

 

You might also have a situation where people don't actually know which choice will maximize their utility, so the choices they make are semi-random and thus don't even show player preference because players are not given the information needed to make an informed choice.

 

And telling people to try it before making an opinion is essentially telling people that Bioware or you know that person's preferences better than the person knows their own preferences, which is utterly ridiculous.

 

Personally it's no skin off my nose if you try it or not.  Nor do I presume to know your preferences better than you.  Only you know that.  I never told you I know what your preferences are.  Maybe you misunderstood my post.  Maybe I wasn't clear.  I find it utterly ridiculous when people bash something without even trying it.  You haven't tried it.  I haven't tried it.  I don't know if it will suck or not, but I'm willing to give it a chance.

 

As I've said upthread you have three options.

1) Buy it, try it, then determine if it's fun or if it sucks.

2) Wait for the reviews of other players to come in and then determine if it's for you or not.

3) Decide the changes are a deal breaker to you and pass on getting it.

 

If enough people determine #3 to be the case, then Bioware will get the message loud and clear.  I wouldn't hold my breath for that though if I were you.

[Heresie Irisee]

(Misclicked, so sorry!)

[LonewandererD]

 

As I've said upthread you have three options.

1) Buy it, try it, then determine if it's fun or if it sucks.

2) Wait for the reviews of other players to come in and then determine if it's for you or not.

3) Decide the changes are a deal breaker to you and pass on getting it.

 

If enough people determine #3 to be the case, then Bioware will get the message loud and clear.  I wouldn't hold my breath for that though if I were you.

 If and when this thread dies or is locked can we get this stickied, its applicable to a lot of the discussions here right now. Just three more weeks people. If you're still unhappy then at least you'll have the hands on experience to justify it.

 

-D-

[Nohvarr]