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[HaHa365]

Tevinter slaves are often treated better than free Orlesian commoners not to mention Orlesian 'servants'. 

This was the point I was trying to make way earlier in the thread. Orlais does the same thing, it's just a different word than "slave".

[The Ascendant]

Elf slaves are still the best i.m.o. For starters, their is plenty of them. They're such great slaves, even their own empire enslaved them. It is a historical fact!

[Tevinter Soldier]

So because people have negatives views on Tevinter, their views are not valid? Interesting concept you have there. Clearly the reason they have negative views is because they want to badmouth Tevinter rather than them actually having seen and/or experienced it and expressing their views. 

 

Also, provide proof that Andraste was a mage please. I never saw Bioware confirm that one way or the other. 

 

No, it is the truth. They own slaves. Slaves are forced to do the bidding of their masters. Case closed.

But you are right, they can enslave mages too. Thus you using the Circle as a negative is using it as a negative of Tevinter as well. After all they control what mages do just as much as other nations. 

 

Utter nonsense. There is a discernible difference. They put their greater god over the greater good. They wouldn't kidnap people and make them slaves or sacrifices otherwise. Or are you saying that people should be thankful for that? 

 

And yet nearly every magister we have seen is a wielder of said illegal magic. 

 

as i said it is baseless slander from those who oppose Tevinter, not worth wasting breath on.

 

The Imperial Chantry has revealed this truth.

 

The key point here is no one is discriminated against for who they are, Slaves are slaves not because of what they look like nor what they are born as.

Mundanes are not made slaves for being Mundanes.

In southern Thedas and in Qunari territories Mage's are enslaved (although none of you have the balls to admit it for what it is) simply for being mage's.

It is the Discrimination which is wrong.

 

I would Dispute that anyone but the Nobility in south have true freedom. 

the Peasants serve the whim's of their lords not following the orders of a lord in the South get's you beheaded. What you call freedom in the south is an illusion all serve their lords whims elves in the ghettos, Mages in their towers and the rest work to generate taxes for their lords. anyone that doesn't play along is an outcast and a criminal.

 

Tevinter is merely honest, we explain the roll to the serf's you are a slave and nothing more. and as such they are looked after by those they serve.

They are housed, fed and protected by their Master's.

 

Unlike in the south where the Serfs serve someone who had the good grace of falling out of a woman ploughed by the current ruler. Again they are forced to serve the Whims of Nobles. Only then to be taxed, pay for their their own abode and food on top. Which is the greater evil? making someone believe they have freedom and make them pay for the Illusion of freedom or be honest about their position so they can accept it and enjoy the protection that come with it? 

 

Tevinter can not police what happens outside of Tevinter. You have no doubt met outcasts and Miscreants masquerading as Magisters.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 

Tevinter doesn't trade with any nation but Dwarves and its entire economy is run on slavery. If I remember correctly an Archon was assassinated in matter of minutes after trying to do something about slavery. Its constantly in wars and it needs money, period. Not that I support this but its the greater good we are talking about. In our history we have tolerated everything if our nation's survival depended on it.

No, it is the current system's greater good. They could find other ways to support their economy. They have enough land for it since the only place they are battling the Qunari is Seheron. Their mainland is firmly in their control. But they'd rather stick with tradition rather than adapt. And just like the Dwarven Empire, all it has resulted in is them being a shadow of their former selves.

[Hellion Rex]

Not only that. iSlave 7 now comes in Dalish, Liberati, and in Qunari prisoner of war editions.

Dammit. I still have a year before I can upgrade to iSlave 7 Qunari edition.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

as i said it is baseless slander from those who oppose Tevinter, not worth wasting breath on.

 

The Imperial Chantry has revealed this truth.

So I should only listen to those who have positive things to say about Tevinter? 

 

Link?

 

The key point here is no one is discriminated against for who they are, Slaves are slaves not because of what they look like nor what they are born as.

Mundanes are not made slaves for being Mundanes.

In southern Thedas and in Qunari territories Mage's are enslaved (although none of you have the balls to admit it for what it is) simply for being mage's.

It is the Discrimination which is wrong.

Yes they are. Tevinter is a Social Darwinist culture. The weaker are discriminated by the stronger because they are weaker. Which has led to mages over nonmages. 

And the non-contract slaves are the worst treated group in all of Thedas. 

 

I would Dispute that anyone but the Nobility in south have true freedom. 

the Peasants serve the whim's of their lords not following the orders of a lord in the South get's you beheaded. What you call freedom in the south is an illusion all serve their lords whims elves in the ghettos, Mages in their towers and the rest work to generate taxes for their lords. anyone that doesn't play along is an outcast and a criminal.

 

Tevinter is merely honest, we explain the roll to the serf's you are a slave and nothing more. and as such they are looked after by those they serve.

They are housed, fed and protected by their Master's.

 

Unlike in the south where the Serfs serve someone who had the good grace of falling out of a woman ploughed by the current ruler. Again they are forced to serve the Whims of Nobles. Only then to be taxed, pay for their their own abode and food on top. Which is the greater evil? making someone believe they have freedom and make them pay for the Illusion of freedom or be honest about their position so they can accept it and enjoy the protection that come with it? 

I never said the south was a utopia. Far from it. But it is better than Tevinter in terms of how it treats those below it. While you are serving the nobility, people at least have the reins on what they'll do with their life. Even the Circle mages can choose what to do while in the Circle. Tevinter slaves have no such freedom and can only do what their masters tell them. 

I'll grant you that Tevinter is honest, about slavery at least. Does not make them morally superior or even right. If you are honest about being a rapist to your victim once you can do what you want, does it make you better than a rapist who isn't honest? 

Slavery is more evil than serfdom. Again at least with the latter you have at least some control over your life.

 

 

Tevinter can not police what happens outside of Tevinter. You have no doubt met outcasts and Miscreants masquerading as Magisters.

You aren't being serious with this, right? 

 

 

Except it's the White Chantry that's being decimated through in fighting and stagnation despite having an accord with the Qunari. Talk about irony.

How is it ironic? The White Chantry(not sure why you brought them up since I didn't) is still the dominant religion in everywhere that it was. The Tevinter religions, even the Imperial Chantry, can't say the same.

But again, I never brought up the White Chantry so I don't see the irony of you pointing out something I did not mention also having troubles. 

[Tevinter Soldier]

Except it's the White Chantry that's being decimated through in fighting and stagnation despite having an accord with the Qunari. Talk about irony.

 

I Think its more,.............Poetic The so called "white" chantry, In it's Smug superiority abandons the war to protect selfish smug nobles bank account's rendering thousands of valiant soldiers to be in vain. By no less than Striking an accord with an enemy that wishes its very destruction. 

 

For all it's exalted marches to suppress the imperial Chantry. It's hostilities to it's neighbours.

the very thing that Brought it to it's knees was the Idea Magi could be conquered.

 

it's futile crusade saw it's mage's rebel, its Templars abandon them and now it's country descend into civil war, rather than adopt to true teachings of andraste.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

This is a lie as explained above. Slaves in Tevinter are better off than commoners in Orlais specifically. 

 

 

 

It's ironic because you may not have said as much, but all your posts are espousing White Chantry rhetoric and propaganda. 

I said non-contract slaves. As in slaves that even Tevinter buy and sell illegally. They are the worst treated group in Thedas. 

 

Then you are misreading my posts. 

[KainD]

Does not make them morally superior or even right.

 

God, this again. You cannot be morally superior or inferior, same as you cannot have a superior taste for food for example. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

They really aren't. Tevinter doesn't 'steal' slaves. Orlais and the Free Marches sells slaves. Tevinter doesn't time for that **** when they're staring down the barrel of a Qunari cannon. Slaves (indentured or not) in Tevinter live better than the common folk of Orlais. Period.

 

And I'd wager that the group that has it worse are the Casteless of Orzammar (we don't know how things work in Kal-Sharok yet).

Yeah, those slavers in the employ of Tevinter who lied to Ferelden refugees about getting them to safety only to cart them off to Tevinter to be slaves clearly weren't stealing those people. 

Considering we have yet to go to Tevinter, neither of us can say our side of the argument is right period. We both only hear about Tevinter indirectly from people who have been/live there. 

 

The Casteless are also really bad in how they are treated, but they are allowed to leave and go to the surface if they desire.

 

 

God, this again. You cannot be morally superior or inferior, same as you cannot have a superior taste for food for example. 

Then don't listen. I know I don't intend to listen to your posts on the matter. 

[Xilizhra]

They weren't stealing. They weren't wrangling. It was all organized and sanctioned by Loghain's temporary regency. Or was that my imagination? They were really kidnapping elves in the cover of night off the Alienage streets.

 

Right...

Well, it was undoubtedly kidnapping, just with permission from higher-ups.

 

At any rate, I'm rather annoyed that Tevinter was slapped with homophobia to add yet another gratuitous tinge of evil. But I'm still interested in it--albeit in much the same manner that I'm interested in the Sith Empire in TOR.

[Tevinter Soldier]

So I should only listen to those who have positive things to say about Tevinter? 

 

Link?

 

Yes they are. Tevinter is a Social Darwinist culture. The weaker are discriminated by the stronger because they are weaker. Which has led to mages over nonmages. 

And the non-contract slaves are the worst treated group in all of Thedas. 

 

I never said the south was a utopia. Far from it. But it is better than Tevinter in terms of how it treats those below it. While you are serving the nobility, people at least have the reins on what they'll do with their life. Even the Circle mages can choose what to do while in the Circle. Tevinter slaves have no such freedom and can only do what their masters tell them. 

I'll grant you that Tevinter is honest, about slavery at least. Does not make them morally superior or even right. If you are honest about being a rapist to your victim once you can do what you want, does it make you better than a rapist who isn't honest? 

Slavery is more evil than serfdom. Again at least with the latter you have at least some control over your life.

 

 

You aren't being serious with this, right? 

 

 

How is it ironic? The White Chantry(not sure why you brought them up since I didn't) is still the dominant religion in everywhere that it was. The Tevinter religions, even the Imperial Chantry, can't say the same.

But again, I never brought up the White Chantry so I don't see the irony of you pointing out something I did not mention also having troubles. 

 

Only listening to Tevinter would be a good start, you have much to learn without lie's polluting your head.

 

search both the codex wiki and hell world of thedas, The Imperial chantry has revealed the truth. Andraste was a mortal prophet with very, very powerful magic.

they even wrote a book about it called  "the Search for the True Prophet"

 

The magi rule because only Magi can use magic to serve the greater good. How can someone without magic use magic to serve the greater good? your talk nonsense. Even if we abandon what the Imperial chantry teaches us and accept your idea that Magi rule simply because they are strong. How is that unbecoming? the south rule based on who has more money or who kill's their brother's quick enough. 

you can have fat, bloated, inbred, retards ruling simply because their great grandfather happened to wed a woman who's great grandfather once lead an army on a battlefield.

 

You pretend the Serf's in the south have control over their own lives, but they do not. A Baker can never be a Knight. They have a roll and their place and that's it. the nobles control everything a serf can be conscripted at a moments notice. They have no say, no real freedom. They have the Illusion of choice. this is a false doctrine. you pretend they some small level of control over their lives yet even that can be snatched away at a moments notice.

 

and no a Mage cannot do what they want even in the confines of the tower. They cannot wed, raise a family, Study what they want or even stay up all night. they are at the mercy of those that run the circle.

 

You equate Tevinter's honesty on peoples position to that of a rapist, yet it an inaccurate point. How many children will be left to starve to or freeze to death with no one taking care of them for so called freedom in the south? 

 

The problem is you equate the term freedom with what we have in the real world, in thedas there is none of it. no support, no rights, no education. they are at the beck and call of the lords while receiving none of the benefits.

 

Take for example if a lord rapes a young elf? in the south nobody blinks an eye. just an elf

in tevinter there's a very good chance  that thats someones property. You have to pay reparations.

 

the Slave in Tevinter is protected from all but their master.

in the south nobody protects the serf at all not only can their lord do what they want, so can any other.

[KainD]

At any rate, I'm rather annoyed that Tevinter was slapped with homophobia to add yet another gratuitous tinge of evil. 

 

It's not homophobia, it's about reproduction, legacy and connections, power, wealth. If a straight Altus mage said that they don't want to get married and have kids, they would get the same flak. 

[Tevinter Soldier]

I said non-contract slaves. As in slaves that even Tevinter buy and sell illegally. They are the worst treated group in Thedas. 

 

Then you are misreading my posts. 

 

you're missing the fact that the only slaves sold illegal are your "free" serf's from those countries. once they reach tevinter they are housed and fed and trained to behave just like any other slave.

 

Great "freedom" i need a bit of cash i'll just snatch someone off the street. no care or responsibility exists on the seller. the buyer of course needs those slaves and needs to keep them in good health. 

[Xilizhra]

It's not homophobia, it's about reproduction, legacy and connections, power, wealth. If a straight Altus mage said that they don't want to get married and have kids, they would get the same flak. 

Then homosexuality wouldn't have been mentioned as a separate issue, it'd just be one component of not wanting to reproduce.That's not how it was presented.

[KainD]

Then homosexuality wouldn't have been mentioned as a separate issue, it'd just be one component of not wanting to reproduce.That's not how it was presented.

 

I think homosexuality was mentioned in particularly just because Dorian is an important character and homosexual. To explain why he personally gets the flak.

[MisterJB]

Tevinter doesn't trade with any nation but Dwarves and its entire economy is run on slavery. If I remember correctly an Archon was assassinated in matter of minutes after trying to do something about slavery. Its constantly in wars and it needs money, period. Not that I support this but its the greater good we are talking about. In our history we have tolerated everything if our nation's survival depended on it.

From now on, anytime you complain about the Circle System, I will use this quote.

[Xilizhra]

From now on, anytime you complain about the Circle System, I will use this quote.

The issue of the Circle was never that we're willing to destroy various nations for mage freedom; the issue is that the current system is not needed for these nations to survive.

[Icy Magebane]

It's not homophobia, it's about reproduction, legacy and connections, power, wealth. If a straight Altus mage said that they don't want to get married and have kids, they would get the same flak. 

+1

 

I think that has more to do with the focus on nurturing magical bloodlines than a cultural distaste for homosexuality... wasn't there a transgender Magister in the comic books?  Was that character discriminated against...?  They seemed pretty well off based on the wiki article, at least...

 

http://dragonage.wik...Maevaris_Tilani

 

I don't think the Senate would recognize somebody as a Magister if the nation really had a problem with homosexuality...