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[Icy Magebane]

He's Laetan, but I don't think his family is elevated becuase of him. Once one family is elevated it remains Laetan, it can't become Altus.
One of Dorian's ancestor made his family reach The Laetan class, probably.

Being unwilling to help extend the family's magical heritage and by extension increase their influence in society is still something that would reasonably cause friction between Dorian and his family.  That does not mean that the Tevinter culture has something against homosexuals in general.

[The Elder King]

Being unwilling to help extend the family's magical heritage and by extension increase their influence in society is still something that would reasonably cause friction between Dorian and his family.  That does not mean that the Tevinter culture has something against homosexuals in general.

I agree, I was Just taking in general about the Laetans, and Dorian's family already been one before him.

[Icy Magebane]

I agree, I was Just taking in general about the Laetans, and Dorian's family already been one before him.

Oh, well yes, any solid information about Dorian's origin is, of course, welcome.  Even if it turns out that I'm wrong about Tevinter, the more evidence we have to draw conclusions from, the better... this idea that Tevinter is homophobic by nature seems unfounded though.  We still have Maeveris to consider, and she was even married to a male dwarf at one point (I don't know if that still counts as homosexual but... it might?  It's not heterosexual, that's for sure... and the Tevinters don't hate her for it)... Dorian's family complications go well beyond a blanket cultural intolerance IMO.  It's important to his family that he create new mages, or at least attempt to, even if he is homosexual...

[Lulupab]

The ideal origin (for me) for a game set in Tevinter would be about a slave mage that really rises to power (unlike our friend Hawke who stumbles) to become a Magister or even Archon. That's be the real rags to riches story of DA.

Indeed, unlike rest of Thedas your blood means nothing, there is no nobility. You most be a mage and you most work your arse off to the top.

[Icy Magebane]

The ideal origin (for me) for a game set in Tevinter would be about a slave mage that really rises to power (unlike our friend Hawke who stumbles) to become a Magister or even Archon. That's be the real rags to riches story of DA.

I've always thought that a slave origin would be very interesting in a Tevinter-based game, though I would also make it possible for non-mages as well...  non-mage former slaves would be absolute crap at fighting for most of the game though... xD  Maybe it could be tied to Nightmare difficulty or something.

 

(edit: actually, maybe a gladiator-type slave would work... do they have those in Tevinter?)

[MisterJB]

That can only be your opinion as mages have saved Thedas beyond counting. The fact that Tevinter is in danger from rest of Thedas and Qunari is undeniable and there is no room for debate. But much can be debated about what you just claimed. There are better ways to control dangers of magic without oppressing the mages but slavery is an absolute, if you are slave you are slave. Not to mention slaves are treated better than servants in Orlais and city elves in general. Excellence is awarded in Tevinter no matter the origin, such was the case in Rome and Byzantine as well.

If I wished to, I could make several arguments detailing how the criminalization of slavery would not lead to the downfall of Tevinter and exposing possible alternatives to ensure its survival.

Simply because you do not perceive the mages as an existential threat, that does not mean they aren't. In fact, they do not even need to represent an existential one in order for the Circle to still be considered as the Greater Good.

And, according to you, if it is for the Greater Good, then it is excusable.

 

Also, three points:

 

1-Remember the elven shopkeeper in the Alienage? What about Fenris? All former slaves who preferred Souther Thedas, regardless of its prejudices.

What about the slaves from "The Bone Pit" that were chosen at random and fed to dragonlings? Or all those who worked in Kirkwall's quarries?

 

2-If we were to accept that slaves, somehow, lead better lives, then the same applies to mages.

If that makes slavery acceptable or simply more platable, then it also applies to the Circle.

 

3-The notion that excellence is rewarded in Tevinter when all position fo authority are reserved for mages is silly. At most, excellent and backstabbing mages are rewarded.
 

[MisterJB]

Indeed, unlike rest of Thedas your blood means nothing, there is no nobility. You most be a mage and you most work your arse off to the top.

The Altus are the most elevated class precisely because they descend from the first Dreamers that spoke with Dumat which means their blood is what earns them social standing.

[Icy Magebane]

Well I'd imagine it's be like DAO... all classes and origins are important, but only the Human Noble can become King/Queen of Ferelden. Have the Tevinter PC rise through service against the Qunari on the front lines.

Having the mage class be the one whose ending includes rulership would also be an interesting switch.  A mage-Hawke could become Viscount in DA2, but that was very lore breaking...

[Tevinter Soldier]

Eh... sorry but I just don't buy into the Tevinter Imperium being homophobic... there's no real evidence of that except for Dorian, and he has other problems with Tevinter.  Let's also keep in mind that he comes from a line that traditionally did not have magic, and thus his family was raised to Laetan status because he was born with the gift.  If he doesn't pass that gift on by having kids, it's kind of a waste, no?

 

Unless his origin is back to Altus now... last I heard, it was Laetan...

 

call me a Cynic but they had the perfect opportunity to introduce a character from Tevinter and the more and more they reveal about him the more it paints it in a black and white position.

[Icy Magebane]

The Altus are the most elevated class precisely because they descend from the first Dreamers that spoke with Dumat which means their blood is what earns them social standing.

Regardless of that Laetans can become Archons, and have done so frequently in the past...  ability is the most important factor in Tevinter.

[MisterJB]

Regardless of that Laetans can become Archons, and have done so frequently in the past...  ability is the most important factor in Tevinter.

If that ability is magic, of course.

Also, were these Laetans former slaves or came from well extablished Laetan families? Were they elves?

All of that affects thims that ability is what matters most.

[Lulupab]

The Altus are the most elevated class precisely because they descend from the first Dreamers that spoke with Dumat which means their blood is what earns them social standing.

But the most powerful are chosen from any class as long as they are mages. We had Archons from Laetan family. Being Altus is certainly a bonus but its not significant. Others start from 0 and go to 100. the Altus start from 2.

If I wished to, I could make several arguments detailing how the criminalization of slavery would not lead to the downfall of Tevinter and exposing possible alternatives to ensure its survival.
Simply because you do not perceive the mages as an existential threat, that does not mean they aren't. In fact, they do not even need to represent an existential one in order for the Circle to still be considered as the Greater Good.
And, according to you, if it is for the Greater Good, then it is excusable.
 
Also, three points:
 
1-Remember the elven shopkeeper in the Alienage? What about Fenris? All former slaves who preferred Souther Thedas, regardless of its prejudices.
What about the slaves from "The Bone Pit" that were chosen at random and fed to dragonlings? Or all those who worked in Kirkwall's quarries?
 
2-If we were to accept that slaves, somehow, lead better lives, then the same applies to mages.
If that makes slavery acceptable or simply more platable, then it also applies to the Circle.
 
3-The notion that excellence is rewarded in Tevinter when all position fo authority are reserved for mages is silly. At most, excellent and backstabbing mages are rewarded.

First of all not according to me but according to us as humans. I'm sure wherever you are from your nation has tolerated its horrendous acts in the past because it was for the greater good of the nation. Everything can be branded as "its for the greater good" but we must see how true that is.

All authority figures are mages indeed, but we know for a fact that it takes a lot of effort to get there. Who your father is is completely irrelevant in opposed to southern Thedas nobility system. You need to prove yourself aka excellence is awarded.

Fenris was free and living in a bloody mansion in southern Thedas. In comparison to what we see in slums that city elves live in most slaves have a better life in Tevinter when compared to city elves. being treated like property is better than being treated like trash.

Again slavery is an absolute matter, someone cannot be party a slave, they either are or aren't. We can always find a better way to control dangers of magic not to mention there is no guarantee the said mage will be dangerous. Southern Thedas owes a lot to mages and they know it as well, but they have forgotten. All I'm saying is there are ways to make the life of mages better at the circles but there is no such opportunity for slaves as long as they stay slaves.

[Icy Magebane]

If that ability is magic, of course.

Also, were these Laetans former slaves or came from well extablished Laetan families? Were they elves?

All of that affects thims that ability is what matters most.

Okay, that's a fair point... we don't know enough details about Tevinter's history to be certain what came into play for each of those former Laetan Archons, only that roughly 1/3 of all Archons came from that class.  My main point is that the Altus class doesn't seem to have any inherent advantage over the Laetan class in terms of social mobility.  A person from either group can ascend to the highest ranks so long as they meet the right people and cast the right spells.

 

That's why I think it would be nice to have a game set in Tevinter... that way we would have codex entries written from the perspective of the Tevinters and direct access to actual Tevinter NPCs who could provide first hand accounts...

[MisterJB]

First of all not according to me but according to us as humans. I'm sure wherever you are from your nation has tolerated its horrendous acts in the past because it was for the greater good of the nation. Everything can be branded as "its for the greater good" but we must see how true that is.

Ah, but the very notion of "good" is subjective. Therefore, since you were the one that first used the term, I must go foward with your own notion of "Greater Good" in mind.

 

All authority figures are mages indeed, but we know for a fact that it takes a lot of effort to get there. Who your father is is completely irrelevant in opposed to southern Thedas nobility system. You need to prove yourself aka excellence is awarded.

And how do we know that for a fact?

We do know that the highest class within Tevinter is entirely decided by blood. Where exactly is the evidence that family connections are not more important that pure magic ability? Do we have an example of someone being born and becoming an Archon or even just a Cleric?

I don't think we do.

 

Besides, the Tevinter system is a nobilty system through ahd through since it relies on an inborn ability to decide who rules.
At least, in Southern Thedas, anyone can become a noble; it's rare but, theoretically, it can happen. But a normal can never become a mage.

 

Fenris was free and living in a bloody mansion in southern Thedas. In comparison to what we see in slums that city elves live in most slaves have a better life in Tevinter when compared to city elves. being treated like property is better than being treated like trash.

A bold claim considering that we've never seen a slave in Tevinter.

We do have evidence of one run away slave living in a slum in Ferelden and prefering it. And we do have examples of attrocities commited against slaves.

 

there is no guarantee the said mage will be dangerous.

All mages are dangerous through and through.

 

Southern Thedas owes a lot to mages and they know it as well, but they have forgotten.

If they had, they'd just kill the lot of them.

The Circle exists precisely because mages are dangerous but useful.

 

All I'm saying is there are ways to make the life of mages better at the circles but there is no such opportunity for slaves as long as they stay slaves.

Foregoing the fact there are different types of slavery, we could find ways to sustain Tevinter without slavery.

 

But if you want to claim otherwise, I can also claim the pre-rebellion system is the only way to prevent the subjugation of non-magical society.

And I can come up with arguments, ask anyone.

 

[Tevinter Soldier]

(edit: actually, maybe a gladiator-type slave would work... do they have those in Tevinter?)

 

Minrathous has an arena styled in the Dwarven "proving grounds" 

consider to be the largest arena anywhere in thedas.

 

I can only assume it's not for playing cricket.

[The Baconer]

I know that I've already talked about this in at least 2 other topics but where does Tevinter get all the DOSH? Even after getting pushed to their capital in multiple wars, and while fighting a war over Seheron with the Qunari, these guys are still the largest consumer of Lyrium and slaves, two of the most expensive resources in Thedas.

[Drasanil]

I know that I've already talked about this in at least 2 other topics but where does Tevinter get all the DOSH? Even after getting pushed to their capital in multiple wars, and while fighting a war over Seheron with the Qunari, these guys are still the largest consumer of Lyrium and slaves, two of the most expensive resources in Thedas.

 

They mind control their bankers into giving them perpetually good credit?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I've always thought that a slave origin would be very interesting in a Tevinter-based game, though I would also make it possible for non-mages as well...  non-mage former slaves would be absolute crap at fighting for most of the game though... xD  Maybe it could be tied to Nightmare difficulty or something.

 

(edit: actually, maybe a gladiator-type slave would work... do they have those in Tevinter?)

Well, Fenris was something like that when he was Leto. He won a tournament to earn the right to gain the lyrium tattoos in exchange for the release of his family from slavery. 

[Tevinter Soldier]

I know that I've already talked about this in at least 2 other topics but where does Tevinter get all the DOSH? Even after getting pushed to their capital in multiple wars, and while fighting a war over Seheron with the Qunari, these guys are still the largest consumer of Lyrium and slaves, two of the most expensive resources in Thedas.

 

they wisely never floated their dollar.

[Jaronking]

Why do everyone say Tevinter Homophobic its this is from the wiki In Tevinter, same-sex relationships between nobles are largely hidden, but nowhere prohibited. These relationships are encouraged with favored slaves. 

[TheEternalStudent]

Why do everyone say Tevinter Homophobic its this is from the wiki In Tevinter, same-sex relationships between nobles are largely hidden, but nowhere prohibited. These relationships are encouraged with favored slaves. 

Probably because Tevinter frowns on gay marriage, though that's only because they want more little mage babies.