15994 réponses à ce sujet

[KainD]

I'm more interested in the Old Gods. Having an option to follow them would be... quite interesting.

 

Seems as something beneath a protagonist, worshiping a bunch of spirits.

[Xilizhra]

Seems as something beneath a protagonist, worshiping a bunch of spirits.

We can do it as elves... or just worship a fantasy, with the Maker.

[KainD]

We can do it as elves... or just worship a fantasy, with the Maker.

 

No I get that, but you really like that aspect?

[Xilizhra]

No I get that, but you really like that aspect?

I can be an atheist in Mass Effect or real life. In DA, I can have faith in something interesting.

[herkles]

Well done, you really put some thought to it.

 

I'd be very happy with origins coming back, I don't see it happening but still one can dream.

 

thanks.

 

The reason why I think having origins for tevinter works compared to not having them for other places is that tevinter society is rather different from the rest of thedas. While we who like the lore may know about the social class, or that the imperial chantry is pro-magic or hell that they even have a chantry. I highly doubt most of the buying public would know that. 

 

Hence the origins as a way to ease one into what tevinter society is about. There are so many words, so many concepts they have to get to understand Tevinter. We can't just throw them all at people, it would get confusing. Hence the origins. In each origin you can introduce things without throwing everything at them. 

 

The other thing to do is to make sure that each origin can fit into the story. In inquistion, as much as the qunari and dwarves are cool they don't seem to fit into the story as much as humans/elves. that is why I tried to make sure each origin fits in. It is tempting to make the mage origins the most important or the slave one, but that shouldn't be the case as I like roleplaying. So every origin should be a part of the story. 

[KainD]

I can be an atheist in Mass Effect or real life. In DA, I can have faith in something interesting.

 

Fair enough. I guess I just don't consider DA ''Gods'' to be worthy of worship since they are not really that divine and don't have control of peoples souls and mundane world to a big extent, as Gods do in D&D for example. 

[herkles]

Fair enough. I guess I just don't consider DA ''Gods'' to be worthy of worship since they are not really that divine and don't have control of peoples souls and mundane world to a big extent, as Gods do in D&D for example. 

In my faith(hellenismos or greek polytheistic religion) there are numerous beings that I worship. While everyone might be aware of the twelve Olympians, they are not the only Olympians, nor the only things I honor.  Since you mentioned spirits, there is also the Nymphs, local natural spirits who are tied to a certain area. I don't see why they are not worthy of my offerings and respect just because they are not the powerful Olympians. Sure I offer to the Olympians more then a local spirits, but that is also because they are local and more tied to the area. 

 

As for dragon age, we have the Avvar and they also worship spirits, and if the elven gods turn out to be just powerful spirits. I don't see any reason why they couldn't also be something a character worships.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Tevinter Grey Wardens were the very first Wardens (the Anderfels were Tevinter, as was most of Thedas), and they've had many more centuries than Avernus had to experiment, plus access to arcane libraries, lore, etc. And I wouldn't put it past the Tevinter Warden-Commanders to simply force-feed the joining potion to a large number of slaves (they're just slaves, after all), and then lock them up in an unobtrusive laboratory somewhere for experimentation. 

Tevinter Grey Wardens, are not Tevinter anymore, they are Wardens first and foremost (furthermore WoT makes a point of specifying that the first Grey Wardens were from the Anderfels, and not Tevinter proper). And forcefeeding the Joining on countless slaves, would be a surefire way to burst the bubble on Wardens' secret.

[KainD]

In my faith(hellenismos or greek polytheistic religion) there are numerous beings that I worship. While everyone might be aware of the twelve Olympians, they are not the only Olympians, nor the only things I honor.  Since you mentioned spirits, there is also the Nymphs, local natural spirits who are tied to a certain area. I don't see why they are not worthy of my offerings and respect just because they are not the powerful Olympians. Sure I offer to the Olympians more then a local spirits, but that is also because they are local and more tied to the area. 

 

As for dragon age, we have the Avvar and they also worship spirits, and if the elven gods turn out to be just powerful spirits. I don't see any reason why they couldn't also be something a character worships.

 

I'm just not sure worship is the right word in this case. Worship is classified as love and devotion to something sacred to you. If you just have mutual respect and doings with any being that is just more powerful than you it's not really worship. Would you say that say people are worshiping their Kings, and could kings be called Gods? They also have more power than common folk, and common folk might bring offering to the king and ask for favors. 

[Lord Surinen]

That is the case now. Most of the clerics in the imperial chantry are mages. Non-mages can only reach the rank of father or mother.

Yes, you are right, but the way Corypheus was speaking in DAII, well, it sounded much better than andrastian ramblings.

[Iadro]

Tevinter Grey Wardens, are not Tevinter anymore, they are Wardens first and foremost (furthermore WoT makes a point of specifying that the first Grey Wardens were from the Anderfels, and not Tevinter proper). And forcefeeding the Joining on countless slaves, would be a surefire way to burst the bubble on Wardens' secret.

 

I suppose it depends on your interpretation. Every nation would be fools if they didn't secure good relations with their Wardens. The Origins PC, if a Cousland, can even become King/Queen, and there is not even a squawk from Weisshaupt. 

 

Alistair may talk a great game about how Wardens are supposed to be neutral, but it is clear that in every nation besides Ferelden (which is like the bastion of incompetence), Wardens maintain deep connections with the reigning power. After all, the Orlesian Wardens during the Fifth Blight had to come into Ferelden with four legions of chevaliers - Orlais' favourite tactic of conquering land. Celene and the Orlesians never tire of trying to regain what they see as a barbarous province of the Empire, and I believe Gaider himself confirmed (unfortunately don't have the source) that Loghain was absolutely correct in his reading of Cailan's "alliance letters" with Celene.

 

When Loghain refused entry of the Orlesian Wardens because of the chevaliers, Warden-Constable Blackwall was perfectly willing to let thousands of innocent unknowing women be raped by the darkspawn and turned into broodmothers over a political dispute. Why couldn't the Orlesian Wardens come by themselves? I refuse to believe Loghain would not be perfectly willing to make use of the Orlesian Wardens provided they followed orders - perhaps joining as "contractors" with Maric's Shield, which would give them homeland authority as well as keeping them nicely under Loghain's eye. Why are the only foreign wardens sent to help Ferelden from Orlais? I think there is clearly a pro-Orlesian agenda at work at Weisshaupt, and Duncan is suspect. (For all of Alistair's talk about "he was born in Highever!" Duncan's family moved out right fast after Maric took the throne, which means that they were certainly Orlesian sympathizers)

 

It is my belief that due to Tevinter being hit the hardest by the Blight historically, the Tevinter Warden Commander and the Archon are on excellent terms with one another. So if they want to test the Joining, why not? Tevinters are arrogant, we know this from canon, and who would believe the word of a slave anyway? And it's not as though Tevinters are inexperienced in controlling the movements of a large number of prisoners. Blood magic can not only control bodies, but also minds. Keeping the test subjects in magically induced comas seems simple enough. 

 

I was wondering if you could provide the direct quote from WoT about Anderfels/Tevinter relation during the time of the First Wardens? Thank you for taking the time to answer my points - Warden lore and speculation is so interesting! 

[Pierce Miller]

Lord Surinen, on 09 Dec 2014 - 4:06 PM, said:

Yes, you are right, but the way Corypheus was speaking in DAII, well, it sounded much better than andrastian ramblings.

I agree, It'd be nice to find some old god relics.

[herkles]

Here is what it says about The anderfels/tevinter.

 

 

The Anders are bitter neighbors of the Tevinter Imperium that once ruled the region. Anders, at best, resent their former rulers - not that the darkspawn allow them much capicity for cross border conflict. 

 

 

The Second Blight began in the Anderfels with the rousing of Old God Zazikel, shortly after the start of the Divine Age. Under Zazikel, the darkspawn organized and once again surfaced in great numbers. The city of Hossberg was hit first, its people cut down nearly to one man before the Grey Wardens finally got word out.

 

The darkspawn emerged along the western ranges and moved east, eventually overruning all corners of the Continent. The Tevinter Imperium abondoned the anderfels in an attempt to better protect itself, a betrayal remembered by the anders to this day.

 

[raging_monkey]

The vints cant treat anybody right

[Pierce Miller]

raging_monkey, on 09 Dec 2014 - 10:16 PM, said:

The vints cant treat anybody right

They treated Fenris right.

[raging_monkey]

They treated Fenris right.

yeah... idk he was pretty pissed... alot

[Pierce Miller]

raging_monkey, on 09 Dec 2014 - 10:19 PM, said:

yeah... idk he was pretty pissed... alot

Good, Made sending him back to Tevinter all the more satisfying.

[raging_monkey]

Good, Made sending him back to Tevinter all the more satisfying.

i didnt he grew on me plus his rival path helped even my views

[herkles]

The vints cant treat anybody right

well to be fair, the second blight was a blight that over ran the contient and minrathous itself was sacked. It was a strategic move to protect other members of the imperium.  To the Anders though they don't see that, they see the vints as just letting them die and they resent that.

 

This actually kind of makes me dislike the fifth blight, as we don't see a blight in its full horror. the 1st and 2nd blights were truely horrorfic. People being slaughtered, mass starvation, the world felt like it was going to end. the fifth blight didn't really bother anyone but Fereldan and even then it recovered really quickly. Towns were slaughtered, cities sacked, men and women left to become darkspawn. 

 

but in origins, I don't think we ever actually see Lothering getting sacked, we don't see the horror. We don't have to worry about the taint. So hopefully if they do a 6th blight story they can include the full horror that is a blight

[raging_monkey]

I pray we never do another blight... to standard and being a warden was fun in 09-11 but now its just practice

[EmperorSahlertz]

When Loghain refused entry of the Orlesian Wardens because of the chevaliers, Warden-Constable Blackwall was perfectly willing to let thousands of innocent unknowing women be raped by the darkspawn and turned into broodmothers over a political dispute. Why couldn't the Orlesian Wardens come by themselves? I refuse to believe Loghain would not be perfectly willing to make use of the Orlesian Wardens provided they followed orders - perhaps joining as "contractors" with Maric's Shield, which would give them homeland authority as well as keeping them nicely under Loghain's eye. Why are the only foreign wardens sent to help Ferelden from Orlais? I think there is clearly a pro-Orlesian agenda at work at Weisshaupt, and Duncan is suspect. (For all of Alistair's talk about "he was born in Highever!" Duncan's family moved out right fast after Maric took the throne, which means that they were certainly Orlesian sympathizers)

 

It is my belief that due to Tevinter being hit the hardest by the Blight historically, the Tevinter Warden Commander and the Archon are on excellent terms with one another. So if they want to test the Joining, why not? Tevinters are arrogant, we know this from canon, and who would believe the word of a slave anyway? And it's not as though Tevinters are inexperienced in controlling the movements of a large number of prisoners. Blood magic can not only control bodies, but also minds. Keeping the test subjects in magically induced comas seems simple enough. 

 

I was wondering if you could provide the direct quote from WoT about Anderfels/Tevinter relation during the time of the First Wardens? Thank you for taking the time to answer my points - Warden lore and speculation is so interesting! 

The Anderfels have been hit far more severely than Tevinter ever has. Tevinter has actually never really suffered a Blight, it has always hit the surrounding countries (Two in Anderfels, one in Antiva, one in Orlais/Free Marches, one in Ferelden IIRC). The Grey Wardens, outside of Blights, are usually regarded as archaic and obsolete, this is probably also true in Tevinter.

 

Either way, the Wardens did not have knowledge of Avernus' research before, not even those in Tevinter.

[Pierce Miller]

raging_monkey, on 09 Dec 2014 - 10:24 PM, said:

i didnt he grew on me plus his rival path helped even my views

I used to think he was the worst companion we'd ever have, Then I met Sera and everything changed

[Hanako Ikezawa]

*accepts cookie*

 

alright. So these are my basic ideas. As the point of any little origin is to get people as quick as possible while also seamless as possile into understanding tevinter culture and society. They also should give you plot reasons to do certain actions, ie siding with bhalen as a castless dwarf.

 

More over, EVERY ORIGIN, should feel important and connected to the story and there should be at least 1 unique quest to each background. the only one atm I am not sure about is the qunari origin. so any ideas for that one? but beyond them here are my ideas:

 

Elf rogue/Warrior - the slave/libertari

 

The elves in Tevinter should be a city elf. We played as a dalish, thus for the non-mage city elves, lets show them tevinter at its utter worse. You are a slave. You have no rights. You were bought up by a magister along with your brother/other family members. You serve a magister. This magister is cruel, horrible, and it is the stuff of nightmares. 

 

the origin would be your city elf enduring and fighting back against it. It also will embrodily your city elf as pawns between a rival magister. Here though things will take a turn for the better, as he will turn you against your master by granting you Libertari status for killing him, and he would up hold his end of the bargin. 

 

comparing it to Origins, it naturally would be similar to the city elf origin there, but also have a bits of the casteless dwarf origin style and feeling. You should feel the oppression, this is the worst of tevinter and you need to see it. All the horror just at the begining, but you also need to feel how schemes are every where. you can't do anything without getting caught in plots.  

 

also by ending as a libertari, it grants you freedom to do plot stuff later in the game. 

 

Quests concepts for later: freeing your brother/sister/relatives from slavery. The slavery plots and quests(which there must be some) should have extra options for this origin.

 

Human Rogue/Warrior - the Saporati. 

 

the human origin for the rogues and warriors is the Saporati class. Here the you would be the son or daughter of a rising merchant family. Here you should feel the glass cealing of tevinter society. You also should feel the breath of the mages here. So as merchants, skilled merchants your rival though is not a mage but another rival merchant family. 

 

The basic plot would be a wedding/formal event of some sort with a rival merchant family between. Either you or another relative would be married to this merchant family to end tensions. Things go wrong though, and the other family comes to murder yours. You escape and then join up with [insert plot group here]

 

If I could compare it to anything from origins, I would say this is actually closest to the human noble origins. The reason your antagonist should be another saporati is that while you should feel the tension between the two classes, you aslo need to keep in mind that other non-mages are just as cruel and competive as you are. Basically tevinter godfather

 

Quest concepts: merchant dealings/intrigue and helping your family rebuild. While this should have set your family back alot as your parents are slaughtered, you and several others should live and vow to rebuild your family name and get revenge on your rival and [plot group] will be your way of doing just that. 

 

for this origin, if one of the Love intrests was from your rival family, that would make things more interesting story wise. 

 

Elven Mage - the Laetern

 

The elven mage is of the Laetern class. They were born as a slave, but when they had magic they entered one of the circles of magi. Here you should feel the disdain for being an elf. You have power just as this altus does, yet you are being treated lesser because of your birth. You should feel it. 

 

You get to witness how your master approves of another mage, just because he is human. You are a more powerful mage then this man, yet your teacher is showing him more respect. the origin is about the intrigues and racisim of the mages. You go to gain relics and power to prove that an elf is just as good as human. of course one of the relic is cursed and things go bad.

 

if comparing to origins: this is similar to the mage origin. atm it is my least devoloped concept

 

 

Human - the Altus

 

the peak of power. The origin of the human mage is the Altus, a scion of a proud family. Here the origin should speak of the high level intrigues and introduce you to what a true mage of the imperium is. 

 

The origin would start after your harrowing. A great banquet has been prepared for you, you have succeded and have 'graduated' as a mage. You have recieved an apprentinceship from a a prominit Magister, and you should like your magister. However over the course of the origin, one of the magisters rivals would strike against him and you would be the scape-goat for his death. Your family's graces drop and their fortunes drop. you join [plot group] to redeem your name.

 

The origin from origins that this takes insperation from is the dwarf noble(it is one of my favorites). The rival magister, naturally should play a role as Bhalen/Harrowmount did. You are to learn that mages are constintly in danger even the mighty and you need your wits to survive. 

 

quests concept: aside from anything dealing with the rival, you also should have quests in regards to the intrigues that your family is doing. 

 

Dwarves - outside in

 

You are from a powerful dwarven family in Tevinter. Your ancestors came from Kal-Sharok but it has been ages since you were there. Here you see tevinter from an outside perspective. A dwarf is not a citizen of the empire but a diplomat and you see it from a different perspective. Though intrigues also exist here. 

 

The plot here would you be working for your family when you discover a lost thaig. This thaig is links to the ancient city of Kal-Sharok and might be a way of reaching them. Of course dark-spawn, intrigue and curses await you. When on your way back, betrayl will strike you, for what you discovered is of great find and your best-friend/sister/brother wants the glory not you.  You join [plot group] to gain revenge but also as a way to possible persue what you discovered.   

 

Comparision to origins: the dalish with a bit of the dwarf noble. Here you learn about dwarves. The reason for Kal-Sharok is that I get the idea we might visit it in the next game, so this would allow you to tie into that plotline much better. 

 

Quest concept: assuming we visit Kal-Sharok, then your quest would be about what should your family do, particularly if there are some members left in Kal-sharok. Do they join? stay in tevinter? you can help decide. 

I'm assuming if they have Qunari available in this game, their story would be similar to the Elven Non-Mage one? 

[raging_monkey]

I used to think he was the worst companion we'd ever have, Then I met Sera and everything changed

damn... i actually like sera lol

[herkles]

I pray we never do another blight... to standard and being a warden was fun in 09-11 but now its just practice

I don't either, there is much more to dragon age then the blight.

 

if we must have a blight story, then let it be a story of horror. We should feel at every moment. "the world is ending we are doomed" it should feel doom and gloom. It should feel like what we are doing is flat out IMPOSSIBLE.  But at the same time you encounter the destroyed town or fortfied places made out of human flesh. You see the destruction of the blight and despite how much of victory seems impossible, giving up should feel worse. Despair should be everywhere. People, companions, freinds and lovers should be seen to die. we should feel like that we are doomed, and then overcome it through dying. no dark ritual. A grey warden this time must die, either you or another warden.