15948 réponses à ce sujet

[Drasanil]

Magisters tend to be extremely ruthless and apathetic, they need to be in order to survive their position. I'm not saying your example is impossible, but it is unlikely. More unlikely than a lord or earl of Ferelden who decides to give more rights to the local elven minority.

 

Well, the mage in question would be buying them to use as slaves. He just also happens to genuinely believe they'd be better off as well, because they'll have shelter, food and a clean place to stay. Completely unlike the filthy alienages he bought them from.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

see this? law abiding citizens and you lot murdered them.

and you claim to be good guy's. 

They were allowed to do it by a traitor(Ferelden does not condone slavery so that alone is treason).

So they were doing illegal work under an illegal permission. So no, not law-abiding citizens(they aren't even citizens since they aren't Ferelden). 

 

Besides, they attacked me first. 

[Sir DeLoria]

see this? law abiding citizens and you lot murdered them.
and you claim to be good guy's. 

Murdering murderers is bad?

[Sir DeLoria]

Well, the mage in question would be buying them to use as slaves. He just also happens to genuinely believe they'd be better off as well, because they'll have shelter, food and a clean place to stay. Completely unlike the filthy alienages he bought them from.

Yeah and if they were bought by a an evil mage (of which there are more than plenty) they'd be dead or mutilated in a few months. It's like Russian roulette.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Murdering murderers is bad?

The best part is this comes from people who support a nation where magisters are allowed to kill other magisters on the streets. 

[The Elder King]

see this? law abiding citizens and you lot murdered them.
and you claim to be good guy's. 

Slavery is illegal in Fereldan, and making Ferelden citizens (elves included slaves is illegal. What Loghain was doing was illegal, otherwise he'd Have publicy announced it and changed the law.

[Drasanil]

Yeah and if they were bought by a an evil mage (of which there are more than plenty) they'd be dead or mutilated in a few months. It's like Russian roulette.

 

So, what's your point? That has nothing to do with the original character concept I was laying out, namely an elven mage that buys elven slaves for their own good. 

[Sir DeLoria]

So, what's your point? That has nothing to do with the original character concept I was laying out, namely an elven mage that buys elven slaves for their own good.

Yes and I pointed out how extremely unlikely that was.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

No. Loghain was the reigning Regent. The Warden only takes over through winning the Landsmeet, a  coup d'état, or winning an honorable rule. Until that moment Loghain was the Regent of Ferelden.

As I said, he was preforming acts that were against Ferelden's laws and betraying the people he is supposed to protect, thus is a traitor. 

 

And as Elder King added, if the deal was legal he wouldn't have been keeping it secret and just changed the law to allow it.

[The Elder King]

No. Loghain was the reigning Regent. The Warden only takes over through winning the Landsmeet, a coup d'état, or winning an honorable duel. Until that moment Loghain was the Regent of Ferelden.

He was. And His actions were still illegal, since he didn't change the laws of the country about slavery.

[Tevinter Soldier]

Barbarians, what do you expect?

 

 

Such savagery. and you know who's to blame for all this do you?

 

The white chantry! One can only guess at what heretically theories they a filling childrens heads with now.

it's little wonder some many of them grow up to be so unstable.

 

and you know really suffers don't you? those elves rotting away in those alienages, Poor dear's. 

[Tevinter Rose]

[source]

 

Magister Maevaris Tilani 

[The Elder King]

Such savagery. and you know who's to blame for all this do you?

The white chantry! One can only guess at what heretically theories they a filling childrens heads with now.
it's little wonder some many of them grow up to be so unstable.

and you know really suffers don't you? those elves rotting away in those alienages, Poor dear's.

That's cute, you're assuming I'm a big fan the Chantry.

[shepard0445]

Psychopath?  His sister tried to sell him back into slavery after he'd been free for years... she's no innocent victim.  And this "defenseless woman" he "murdered?"  Are you really saying that Hadrianna didn't have it coming?  I don't see how Fenris was under any obligation to keep his word to her...

 

Also, let me just make it very clear that although I do want to play as a Tevinter in a game set in Tevinter, I am under no illusion that this is some idyllic fantasy land thanks to the benevolent Magister Lords.  It's likely hell for anyone who doesn't have power, and I don't see any reason to pretend otherwise.  This whole discussion about how slaves are better off than commoners in other lands is nuts... how can being a slave ever be preferable to being free?  I'm interested in Tevinter, but come on, people... it is what it is.

 

 

He is blend out of hate and no relay abel source for the situation in tevinter. And his sister just tryes to have a better live and her brother  disbaned her and left her in tevinter. so it is understood able that she wants to get a better live also if its on his cost.

[Tevinter Soldier]

The best part is this comes from people who support a nation where magisters are allowed to kill other magisters on the streets. 

 

Duels are hardly murder.

[Icy Magebane]

Such savagery. and you know who's to blame for all this do you?

 

The white chantry! One can only guess at what heretically theories they a filling childrens heads with now.

it's little wonder some many of them grow up to be so unstable.

 

and you know really suffers don't you? those elves rotting away in those alienages, Poor dear's. 

Hm... so now we're back to the "elves are better off as slaves" argument...  wonderful.  Well, beyond saying that such statements have no basis in reality, even when applied to a fictional world, I really have nothing to say about comments like that.  It seems pretty obvious that self-determination is better than existing at the mercy of some random person.  It doesn't even take much empathy to see this.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Duels are hardly murder.

And neither is defending yourself from slavers who attack you.

 

But fine, it comes from a nation that approves the sacrifice of a child for entertainment at a party. Is that better? 

[Drasanil]

 

No. Loghain was the reigning Regent. The Warden only takes over through winning the Landsmeet, a coup d'état, or winning an honorable duel. Until that moment Loghain was the Regent of Ferelden.

 

Not to mention it is the least effective denunciation of Loghain in the landsmeet; only one noble even cares about it when you bring it up IIRC. It might officially be illegal but the Fereldens hardly give a poop if it happens.

 

Yes and I pointed out how extremely unlikely that was.

 

You said it was unlikely, you never actually made a point as to why it would be unlikely. Most people tend to genuinely care about their property as a default. If anything I'd say most 'normal' slave owners in Tevinter do probably think their slaves are legitimately better off under their cares than rotting in an alienage.

[Tevinter Soldier]

That's cute, you're assuming I'm a big fan the Chantry.

 

that sounds awful close to Blasphemy, I will pray to the mage andraste for you to see the makers light. 

[Icy Magebane]

He is blend out of hate and no relay abel source for the situation in tevinter. And his sister just tryes to have a better live and her brother  disbaned her and left her in tevinter. so it is understood able that she wants to get a better live also if its on his cost.

I don't care what the reason his sister came up with, if she tried to sell him into slavery, he was no longer under any familial obligation to spare her life...  she crossed the line.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Not to mention it is the least effective denunciation of Loghain in the landsmeet; only one noble even cares about it when you bring it up IIRC. It might officially be illegal but the Fereldens hardly give a poop if it happens.

Only one noble chimes in about anything in the Landsmeet. The only time more than one person chimes in is bringing up poisoning Eamon since the Revered Mother also chimes in. 

[Icy Magebane]

I agree with this. I'm simply playing devil's advocate. Why? I prefer shades of grey and nuance to the current black/white absolutist view of Tevinter. If Thedas is supposed to reflect the real world to some small extent I'd like for things to not be as simple as they seem at face value.

Tevinter has flaws like any other nation.  IMO the slave trade is a major, glaring one... however, that does not totally overshadow the positive aspects, such as greater freedom for mages.  My main objection is to the idea that slavery is a good alternative to poverty or that it's somehow not a horrible practice because it's used on elves and qunari.  That's not something I will ever agree with.

 

The other thing is this... if people support slavery, just say so.  There's no need to pretty it up.  It's a horrific practice, pure and simple.  Accept that and stand by what you believe in (not you TDKR, but ppl in general).

[Drasanil]

Such savagery. and you know who's to blame for all this do you?

 

The white chantry! One can only guess at what heretically theories they a filling childrens heads with now.

it's little wonder some many of them grow up to be so unstable.

 

and you know really suffers don't you? those elves rotting away in those alienages, Poor dear's. 

 

Damn skippy. In Tevinter elves are cared for, they have a roof over their heads, two square meals a day and clean living enviroments. Not to mention a real chance at bettering themselves.

 

Unlike their poor kith in the southern wilds who are  herded into filthy alienages, subject to abuse by random passersby, and worse killed when they actually become productive members of society. Crueler still, they are then told they should cherish this 'freedom' the 'benevolent' White Chantry has gifted them. 

 

The barbarians are truly a disgusting people.