Only one noble chimes in about anything in the Landsmeet. The only time more than one person chimes in is bringing up poisoning Eamon since the Revered Mother also chimes in.
Yes but some of the other options get you more points even if more nobles don't chime in. The slavery argument nets you the least.
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
Tevinter has flaws like any other nation. IMO the slave trade is a major, glaring one... however, that does not totally overshadow the positive aspects, such as greater freedom for mages. My main objection is to the idea that slavery is a good alternative to poverty or that it's somehow not a horrible practice because it's used on elves and qunari. That's not something I will ever agree with.
Depends on the presentation and the depiction of slavery in Tevinter doesn't it? I'd like the opportunity to scratch my head and really ask these questions (Are slaves in Tevinter living worse/better and with less/more opportunity than the rest of Thedas?). That's when you know you've got something complex and layered on your hands.
Even Fenris, Mr. I Hate Tevinter, agrees that it isn't black and white.
Hawke: "You talk about the magisters as if they are all evil."
Fenris: "I have no doubt that some are good and noble men, strong enough to resist temptation."
Depends on the presentation and the depiction of slavery in Tevinter doesn't it? I'd like the opportunity to scratch my head and really ask these questions (Are slaves in Tevinter living worse/better and with less/more opportunity than the rest of Thedas?). That's when you know you've got something complex and layered on your hands.
I'm sorry, but I'd rather be free and poor than "taken care of" but subject to torture and murder based on the master's whim. I see no way for this to be anything I'd want to be a part of... maybe that's the problem though. I'm looking at it from the perspective of the slave, and not the slave master. I guess if I only look at it with the assumption that I'd be in charge of somebody else, and not on the receiving end, maybe I wouldn't despise this system so much. *shrugs*
I'm sorry, but I'd rather be free and poor than "taken care of" but subject to torture and murder based on the master's whim. I see no way for this to be anything I'd want to be a part of... maybe that's the problem though. I'm looking at it from the perspective of the slave, and not the slave master. I guess if I only look at it with the assumption that I'd be in charge of somebody else, and not on the receiving end, maybe I wouldn't despise this system so much. *shrugs*
There is no other way to look at it than from the victim's perspective since they are the only ones who are affected. The slave master has no negatives in the relationship, so looking through them to see the situation is like looking at a rape through the rapist's perspective rather than the victim's.
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
I'm sorry, but I'd rather be free and poor than "taken care of" but subject to torture and murder based on the master's whim. I see no way for this to be anything I'd want to be a part of... maybe that's the problem though. I'm looking at it from the perspective of the slave, and not the slave master. I guess if I only look at it with the assumption that I'd be in charge of somebody else, and not on the receiving end, maybe I wouldn't despise this system so much. *shrugs*
Damn right. I'll give you that. But Ketojan/Sarebaas comes to mind. Difference being a slave's reasoning would be less philosophical and more tangible. Better living conditions for starters.
Tevinter has flaws like any other nation. IMO the slave trade is a major, glaring one... however, that does not totally overshadow the positive aspects, such as greater freedom for mages. My main objection is to the idea that slavery is a good alternative to poverty or that it's somehow not a horrible practice because it's used on elves and qunari. That's not something I will ever agree with.
The other thing is this... if people support slavery, just say so. There's no need to pretty it up. It's a horrific practice, pure and simple. Accept that and stand by what you believe in (not you TDKR, but ppl in general).
These are my exact feelings on the matter.
The Maker? You mean the Dread Wolfthat sounds awful close to Blasphemy, I will pray to the mage andraste for you to see the makers light.
?
Damn right. I'll give you that. But Ketojan/Sarebaas comes to mind. Difference being a slave's reasoning would be less philosophical and more tangible. Better living conditions for starters.
Tsk... so you think it would be worth it then? I dunno... I mean, Ketojan was brainwashed, having been born into the Qun. I suppose slaves in Tevinter might have similar thoughts based on their upbringing. But if they knew what freedom was like, I doubt they'd want to go back... well, Orana in DA2 seemed pretty eager to have a new master since she was helpless after Hadrianna died, but still... it just seems like a person would figure out a new way if given the chance. I think it's a mindset you'd have to be born into to accept. The slaves taken from the Denerim alienage probably weren't too happy once they arrived in Tevinter, no matter how fancy their quarters may have been...
My fellow magi heed me. The chaos of the Breach and civil war in Orlais is the perfect opportunity to supplant the White Chantry's dogma with the one and only truth of the Imperial Chantry. Not to mention undermining Tevinter's main rival Orlais. Outright war will not win this war. We will corrupt, manipulate, and place our agents in key positions. When the time comes, we will be in all the important places at the precise time for total magi dominion. Remember how Palpatine became Emperor. He plotted and waited patiently. Proving the superiority of the Sith. Two Sith achieved in a few decades what hundreds of Sith couldn't in thousands of years. Not through war, but with cunning and guile.
Palpatine was in charge of both sides, so he literally could not lose. You aren't really offered the same opportunity.
And neither is defending yourself from slavers who attack you.
But fine, it comes from a nation that approves the sacrifice of a child for entertainment at a party. Is that better?
after you broke in armed with weapons! they defended themselves. and offered you many chances to turn away.
Blood sacrifices are illegal, if you have information about blood mage activity please contact your nearest Templar office.
There is no other way to look at it than from the victim's perspective since they are the only ones who are affected. The slave master has no negatives in the relationship, so looking through them to see the situation is like looking at a rape through the rapist's perspective rather than the victim's.
I just get the feeling that the people advocating slavery are working under the assumption that they would be the ones in charge... I could be wrong, but it sure seems that way.
after you broke in armed with weapons! they defended themselves. and offered you many chances to turn away.
Blood sacrifices are illegal, if you have information about blood mage activity please contact your nearest Templar office.
No, they invited me into the clinic because they said I was sick. Once inside one of them said I was the one Loghain was after and they attacked.
Tsk... so you think it would be worth it then? I dunno... I mean, Ketojan was brainwashed, having been born into the Qun. I suppose slaves in Tevinter might have similar thoughts based on their upbringing. But if they knew what freedom was like, I doubt they'd want to go back... well, Orana in DA2 seemed pretty eager to have a new master since she was helpless after Hadrianna died, but still... it just seems like a person would figure out a new way if given the chance.
IIRC doesn't Bohdan say Orana barely, if ever, leaves the house even after three years of being 'free'.
I think it's a mindset you'd have to be born into to accept. The slaves taken from the Denerim alienage probably weren't too happy once they arrived in Tevinter, no matter how fancy their quarters may have been...
Indeed, its quite cruel and irresponsible of the southern barbarians not to properly domesticate their elves 
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
Tsk... so you think it would be worth it then? I dunno... I mean, Ketojan was brainwashed, having been born into the Qun. I suppose slaves in Tevinter might have similar thoughts based on their upbringing. But if they knew what freedom was like, I doubt they'd want to go back... well, Orana in DA2 seemed pretty eager to have a new master since she was helpless after Hadrianna died, but still... it just seems like a person would figure out a new way if given the chance. I think it's a mindset you'd have to be born into to accept. The slaves taken from the Denerim alienage probably weren't too happy once they arrived in Tevinter, no matter how fancy their quarters may have been...
It'd be pretty relative. If I were relegated to sleeping in a cold stable at night, shoveling **** all day, barely having enough to eat because I make a couple of coppers a day, and constantly suffer abuses all because my ears are pointy I just might choose slavery in Tevinter. With the promise of a better life and perhaps freedom or even status through a mage child Tevinter becomes sort of a twisted saving grace.
Yes but some of the other options get you more points even if more nobles don't chime in. The slavery argument nets you the least.
Well, considering the other two topics are either Howe torturing nobles or Loghain trying to kill Eamon, I can understand them not liking that more since it targets them personally. I don't agree with them, but stuff targeting you is more of a motivator.
IIRC doesn't Bohdan say Orana barely, if ever, leaves the house even after three years of being 'free'.
Yes he does. She doesn't leave the house.
I just get the feeling that the people advocating slavery are working under the assumption that they would be the ones in charge... I could be wrong, but it sure seems that way.
Given that the only window through which we can interact with Thedas is by being a player character and as a consquence invariably end up in-charge or badass somehow...
No, they invited me into the clinic because they said I was sick. Once inside one of them said I was the one Loghain was after and they attacked.
fo course it was their duty to detain you and hand you over to the authorities.
I just get the feeling that the people advocating slavery are working under the assumption that they would be the ones in charge... I could be wrong, but it sure seems that way.
I have nothing to say to people who advocate slavery. Well, nothing that I wouldn't get a warning point or banned for anyway. They are up there with the "Can we rape/torture/etc people in DAI?" crowd.
fo course it was their duty to detain you and hand you over to the authorities.
But Loghain doesn't recognize you as a traitor. When he sees you in Denerim, he apologizes to you for the treachery of the other Wardens.
It'd be pretty relative. If I were relegated to sleeping in a cold stable at night, shoveling **** all day, barely having enough to eat because I make a couple of coppers a day, and constantly suffer abuses all because my ears are pointy I just might choose slavery in Tevinter. With the promise of a better life and perhaps freedom or even status through a mage child Tevinter becomes sort of a saving grace.
An interesting perspective... If we're talking about elves, I'd rather run off and try to join the Dalish, even if it meant being eaten by wolves before I got a mile outside of the city limits, but that's just me. I suppose I can understand how a person might choose the life of a slave over the uncertainty of freedom, but most slaves don't get a choice. The whole point of slavery is that it's forced... so even if you can point out a few situations where it might be better than a person's previous life, this is not a guarantee. Slaves come from all walks of life, and not all slaves are okay with being collared and potentially experimented on or killed...
however, that does not totally overshadow the positive aspects, such as greater freedom for mages.
But can that be considered a positive when it from that very freedom that all other negatives spawn?
If anything, it is positive for mages and negative for everyone else.
But can that be considered a positive when it from that very freedom that all other negatives spawn?
If anything, it is positive for mages and negative for everyone else.
Invariably it always comes back to the question of whose team your on. Like mages? Tevinter has many positives. Don't like mages? Tevinter is almost irredeemably evil.
But can that be considered a positive when it from that very freedom that all other negatives spawn?
If anything, it is positive for mages and negative for everyone else.
Like I said, all nations have flaws... White Chantry nations like Orlais and Ferelden practice legal genocide in the form of alienage purges, and those nations are all ruled by non-mages, with the mages kept safely within Circles. The fact that Magisters rule Tevinter does not make the crimes perpetrated by that nation's government any more reprehensible than the crimes of White Chantry nations... so long as abominations aren't roaming the streets, I don't really care who rules a country.
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