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[Tevinter Soldier]

Those massive slave revolts occured during their ten plus year invasion of Tevinter?

 

While at the same time they were invading Antiva, Rivan and the Free Marches?

 

I mean if we actually buy into your series of events; Thedas didn't do anything while they were Invaded for nearly a century.

 

._.

 

So maybe you need to look at the timeline.

 

they weren't slave revolts they were "Human" Rebellions all over Tevinter.

 

In fact the south were so useless while all this was going on the Avvar were busy invading ferelden valley.  

[The Baconer]

Still, it's a wonder that Tevinter wasn't reduced to some kind of city-state. I guess they still had the clout to reclaim their territories as far east as the Arlathan Forest and as far south as the Silent Plains.

[Master Warder Z_]

they weren't slave revolts they were "Human" Rebellions all over Tevinter.

 

In fact the south were so useless while all this was going on the Avvar were busy invading ferelden valley.  

 

Your really not contesting anything are you?

 

Your just throwing conjecture and opinion to the wind.

[Tevinter Soldier]

Your really not contesting anything are you?

 

Your just throwing conjecture and opinion to the wind.

 

are you now going to claim the Avvar didn't invade the Ferelden lowlands in 6:50 steel?

In the middle of the Qunari wars no less.

 

There's no mention of the south doing the heavy lifting in the timeline, not until tevinter had begun pushing the Qunari back.

yet we are to accept the idea that because the south had also been invaded they were the turning tide.

 

I see no mention of the souths "heavy lifting" in either the steel ages timeline or the New Exalted marches timeline until after the Tevinter rebellion.

 

Why would i argue against things that i can't even find examples of?

[StrangeStrategy]

I am monitoring this thread... Honestly, I can't tell if the Tevinter supporters are trolling or not. I hope so. Tevinter Soldier... You creep me out.

[Master Warder Z_]

are you now going to claim the Avvar didn't invade the Ferelden lowlands in 6:50 steel?

 

Nope.

 

 

There's no mention of the south doing the heavy lifting in the timeline

 

Considering the Qunari were invading the Free Marches in the time period it can be inferred that the invasion was a failure given that, the objective of a much later campaign was the same objective.

 

You know the invasion that led to their capture of Kirkwall a century or so later.

 

 

Why would i argue against things that i can't even find examples of?

 

You actually do have a point; but sadly much of the war is clouded in mere speculation given that much of the war's context and history has not been revealed as of yet, especially its early days.

[Magister Caedus]

I am monitoring this thread... Honestly, I can't tell if the Tevinter supporters are trolling or not. I hope so. Tevinter Soldier... You creep me out.

Nope. I, at least, am not. I just support a system of magical research not restrained by superstition. Whether that's Tevinter's, Rivain's, or Morrigan's (especially Morrigan). The politics of it are less important to me.

[Tevinter Soldier]

I am monitoring this thread... Honestly, I can't tell if the Tevinter supporters are trolling or not. I hope so. Tevinter Soldier... You creep me out.

 

less trolling more role play. 

[Tevinter Rose]

I am monitoring this thread... Honestly, I can't tell if the Tevinter supporters are trolling or not. I hope so. Tevinter Soldier... You creep me out.

 

I can only speak for myself but I'm not, I support Tevinter because echoing what @magister caedus said they have magical research not restrained by dogma and I personally find that fascinating and intriguing. I find other places in Thedas just as interesting as well.

[Lulupab]

I agree about the magical research. I really like Dalaran and kirin tor too (from WoW lore). Mageocracy where nothing stands in way of magical research. 

[Icy Magebane]

I am monitoring this thread... Honestly, I can't tell if the Tevinter supporters are trolling or not. I hope so. Tevinter Soldier... You creep me out.

I hope that during the time you spent monitoring, you realized that we don't all support every aspect of Tevinter culture... for all its flaws, it's still the best place for a mage to be born IMHO.  It's probably not such a good idea for a foreign mage to try to move there and reap the benefits though... xD

[Drasanil]

Completely unfettered magical research carries far far more horrifying implications than the 'mere' slavery which you all seem to abhor about Tevinter and hold against.

[Master Warder Z_]

Completely unfettered magical research carries far far more horrifying implications than the 'mere' slavery which you all seem to abhor about Tevinter and hold against.

 

Indeed.

 

Crap like that caused the Blights, Harvesters.

 

Who knows what else.

[Icy Magebane]

Completely unfettered magical research carries far far more horrifying implications than the 'mere' slavery which you all seem to abhor about Tevinter and hold against.

Not really?  I mean, so long as the abominations are kept under wraps, what's the big deal?  I'm not saying that it's okay to practice blood magic on people you grab off the street... I agree that there need to be some restrictions.  I just think the White Chantry goes too far... that system is not appropriate for a nation that is heavily based on magic and has been for centuries... if the laws were a bit tighter in Tevinter, that would be ideal, but they seem to have solved the problem of mages being integrated into the main population, even if the majority of them are still living in Circles...

[Tevinter Rose]

Completely unfettered magical research carries far far more horrifying implications than the 'mere' slavery which you all seem to abhor about Tevinter and hold against.

 

Different people are gonna like the place for different reasons.

[Vox Draco]

I am monitoring this thread... Honestly, I can't tell if the Tevinter supporters are trolling or not. I hope so. Tevinter Soldier... You creep me out.

 

Pft...what's so bad about an Empire that wants to rule the world, enslave everyone and actually waged war on God himself in the past? And they are fancily dressed, too, like all "evil" Empires ... Tevinter, Roman Empire, Galactic Empire, those badguys from the Indiana Jones movies (though really, those were a wee bit unrealistic and over-the-top), damn they conquered their respective worlds with style (and terror...)

 

Should we really feel bad for being intrigued by the Tevinter-Imperium? What's next? Should I stop laughing when Ewoks get killed on screen? You cannot really expect that?

 

Anyway, more on topic, bloodsacrifices: Are there any numbers on the elves possibly used to conduct the necessary rituals to storm the black city? And is virgin elven blood more powerful? What...? Why are you looking at me like that?

[StrangeStrategy]

less trolling more role play. 

 

Good, that's okay. It actually would bother me if anyone could actually say "Yeah, people are born better than others and its ok for those people to be cruel to others because they aren't worth any empathy.", because that's how magisters treat their slaves.

Its like Orlais, but with Blood Magic and no subtlety. Magisters duel in the streets, slaves are sacrificed for fun, slaves are sacrificed for power, slaves are stolen from across the world to serve egotistical humans who think they're better.

[Lulupab]

Good, that's okay. It actually would bother me if anyone could actually say "Yeah, people are born better than others and its ok for those people to be cruel to others because they aren't worth any empathy.", because that's how magisters treat their slaves.

Its like Orlais, but with Blood Magic and no subtlety. Magisters duel in the streets, slaves are sacrificed for fun, slaves are sacrificed for power, slaves are stolen from across the world to serve egotistical humans who think they're better.

 

Well Tevinter rarely steals, they buy them. If anything slavers from other nation "steal" them and sell it to Tevinter.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Even if you were to discount both Caladrius and the Tevinter slavers everywhere in Kirkwall, Fenris says that Magisters often attack eachother to take slaves by force.

[Lulupab]

Even if you were to discount both Caladrius and the Tevinter slavers everywhere in Kirkwall, Fenris says that Magisters often attack eachother to take slaves by force.

 

If they attack each other (which is not confirmed) that's another matter. Caladrius had a contract and he was in fact paying Loghian. Don't know about other slavers. Castlion however was clearly kidnapping people and selling them to Tevinter and he was from Antiva.

[Drasanil]

Not really?  I mean, so long as the abominations are kept under wraps, what's the big deal?  I'm not saying that it's okay to practice blood magic on people you grab off the street... I agree that there need to be some restrictions.  I just think the White Chantry goes too far... that system is not appropriate for a nation that is heavily based on magic and has been for centuries... if the laws were a bit tighter in Tevinter, that would be ideal, but they seem to have solved the problem of mages being integrated into the main population, even if the majority of them are still living in Circles...

 

No. Really. Given everything we know about Tevinter, the Magisters, and Magic what you're proposing is about as realistic as complete mage-templar harmony. Unfettered magical research will almost invariably get around to 'new and interesting' applications for blood magic.

 

I really hate to even coming close the Law of Godwin but in this case it's actually an apt comparison. Unfettered magical research will almost invariably lead to some serious Mengelesk stuff going on, given the only real viable path left for it is blood magic and most people aren't likely to volunteer for that sh!t. 

 

Or are we all just being naive and assuming that after thousands of years of studying magic everyone involved just failed to somehow notice the uber-powerful field of carebear magic they could study?

[Lulupab]

No. Really. Given everything we know about Tevinter, the Magisters, and Magic what you're proposing is about as realistic as complete mage-templar harmony. Unfettered magical research will almost invariably get around to 'new and interesting' applications for blood magic.

 

I really hate to even coming close the Law of Godwin but in this case it's actually an apt comparison. Unfettered magical research will almost invariably lead to some serious Mengelesk sh!t going on, given the only real viable path left for it is blood magic and most people aren't likely to volunteer for that sh!t. 

 

Or are we all just being naive and assuming that after thousands of years of studying magic everyone involved just failed to somehow notice the uber-powerful field of carebear magic they could study?

 

Except it was Tevinter's knowledge of blood magic that allowed the joining ritual to happen and grey wardens coming into being.

 

Also Tevinter mages going into fade was not "study". It was promise of a an old god. Mages knew how to get into fade already.

[Drasanil]

Except it was Tevinter's knowledge of blood magic that allowed the joining ritual to happen and grey wardens coming into being.

 

Also Tevinter mages going into fade was not "study". It was promise of a an old god. Mages knew how to get into fade already.

 

The former 'good' knowledge wouldn't have ever been necessary if the latter 'bad' knowledge of blood magic wasn't researched in the first place. 

 

That aside, finding one [two, if you include phylacteries] benign use of blood magic doesn't wash away all the already known horrible uses of blood magic. Nor does it mean further research into a field that almost invariably leads to bad ends is a good idea.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

There are a lot of slavers from elsewhere in the world that sell to Tevinter and others, but the Hawke mansion was filled with Tevinter slavers. Danzig's guys (who kidnapped Feynriel) was Tevinter wasn't he? AND there were those guys that Danarius sent after Fenris. I think at least one of the night street gang was a Tevinter slaver group wasn't it?

[Icy Magebane]

No. Really. Given everything we know about Tevinter, the Magisters, and Magic what you're proposing is about as realistic as complete mage-templar harmony. Unfettered magical research will almost invariably get around to 'new and interesting' applications for blood magic.

 

I really hate to even coming close the Law of Godwin but in this case it's actually an apt comparison. Unfettered magical research will almost invariably lead to some serious Mengelesk sh!t going on, given the only real viable path left for it is blood magic and most people aren't likely to volunteer for that sh!t. 

 

Or are we all just being naive and assuming that after thousands of years of studying magic everyone involved just failed to somehow notice the uber-powerful field of carebear magic they could study?

Well hold on there... first off, I'm not the one who proposed "unfettered" magical research... I'm only in favor of less restriction than what the White Chantry Circles allow, not unlimited freedom.  I also said that I don't agree with everything about Tevinter culture... mainly that includes the oppressive or immoral aspects.  The thing is, even with all of those negatives, it's still a lot better for a mage to be born there than most other places in Thedas.  Rivain and possibly Nevarra would be decent options as well...  although I have a strong distaste for the Rivaini seers and the overall refusal to properly contain and prevent abominations in that nation... but that's another topic entirely...

 

You also seem to be forgetting that slavery and blood magic go hand in hand in Tevinter... without slaves to power these rituals, how would the Magisters even be able to access the furthest depths of spellcraft?  If I condemn slavery, does it not also follow that I condemn the use of slaves as power sources for dark rituals?  Is it not apparent then that I believe in laws and oversight, at least to some degree?  That one aspect of Tevinter culture, slavery, is the cornerstone for all of the magical abuses practiced by their rulers and nobility... remove that, and the majority of these abuses disappear as well (not all, of course... mages can still use magic to commit crimes like any other person...).

 

Hypothetically speaking of course... obviously it's more complicated than just banning slavery and then Tevinter becomes a paradise... that's not what I'm trying to say at all.