is anyone truely given a choice?. And to be fair its partly due to their culture. Over ther its more a everday thing like using your fingers to light a cig
Yes, some people are given a choice to express themselves. The non-mage people of Tevinter are not. Any disapproval of the magisters, no matter how small or valid, can be seen as dissension and result in slavery or death. Even the magister's "superior" is under their thumb when it comes to that.
if that were the case their would be alot more revolts. Not to say there isnt x amount of tension and tevinter is like anywhere else just have reverse customs. Every nation in thedas and even rl gov't apply censorship. Most times its shady but sometimes neccasary. Knowing everything is a burdenYes, some people are given a choice to express themselves. The non-mage people of Tevinter are not. Any disapproval of the magisters, no matter how small or valid, can be seen as dissension and result in slavery or death. Even the magister's "superior" is under their thumb when it comes to that.
if that were the case their would be alot more revolts. Not to say there isnt x amount of tension and tevinter is like anywhere else just have reverse customs. Every nation in thedas and even rl gov't apply censorship. Most times its shady but sometimes neccasary. Knowing everything is a burden
You mean other than the revolts that happen "all the time" according to Fenris? Fenris may be over exaggerating on some things, but his personal experience gives no reason for that information to be affected by it. Besides, fear is a great motivator for keeping citizens quiet. Slaves revolt more often simply because they have nothing to lose.
Most countries in Thedas and even rl governments don't use enslavement or death as censorship tools. Especially to anyone who suggests things may be better if something is even slightly changed.
You mean other than the revolts that happen "all the time" according to Fenris? Fenris may be over exaggerating on some things, but his personal experience gives no reason for that information to be affected by it. Besides, fear is a great motivator for keeping citizens quiet. Slaves revolt more often simply because they have nothing to lose.
Most countries in Thedas and even rl governments don't use enslavement or death as censorship tools. Especially to anyone who suggests things may be better if something is even slightly changed.
Slave revolts =/= Tevinter mundane revolts. A Tevinter mundane has every single right a mage has, all except having a political station.
Also, only the altus are guaranteed to have mage children due to pure bloodlines. The less pure aka Laetans can and do have mundande children from time to time, they would be mundanes who have mage blood in them and capable of giving birth to mages and as such remain a Laetan which is practically lesser nobles.
Slave revolts =/= Tevinter mundane revolts. A Tevinter mundane has every single right a mage has, all except having a political station.
Also, only the altus are guaranteed to have mage children due to pure bloodlines. The less pure aka Laetans can and do have mundande children from time to time, they would be mundanes who have mage blood in them and capable of giving birth to mages and as such remain a Laetan which is practically lesser nobles.
No, they have the constant threat of slavery hanging over their heads while mages never have to fear that. If a slave is found to be a mage, they are immediately freed. So no, they do not have every single right a mage has.
granted danarious was a prig fenris is a poor source(so is dorian) add to the fact when one is bitter we tend to intentionally or unintentially omit minor but key context.You mean other than the revolts that happen "all the time" according to Fenris? Fenris may be over exaggerating on some things, but his personal experience gives no reason for that information to be affected by it. Besides, fear is a great motivator for keeping citizens quiet. Slaves revolt more often simply because they have nothing to lose.
Most countries in Thedas and even rl governments don't use enslavement or death as censorship tools. Especially to anyone who suggests things may be better if something is even slightly changed.
No, they have the constant threat of slavery hanging over their heads while mages never have to fear that. If a slave is found to be a mage, they are immediately freed. So no, they do not have every single right a mage has.
Its forbidden to make two groups of people slaves:
Those who are citizens of empire and Dwarves.
There are ways a citizenship can be taken away, my guess would be for example if you murder someone and your punishment would be taking away of your citizenship rights. There are also mage slaves so don't assume mages are not slaves. If you are not one of the named two groups, you can become a slave. Excellence is rewarded at the empire regardless of your origin. Elves can have a better life than humans if you they excel enough to be servant of a Magister (yes actual servants not slaves). Remember that elf in Denerim? The one who served the magister? She was commander of his armies, aka better life than humans.
granted danarious was a prig fenris is a poor source(so is dorian) add to the fact when one is bitter we tend to intentionally or unintentially omit minor but key context.
And enslavement comes in many forms rather that physical chains.
And fear is two way street
Not really. We have yet to meet or even hear about a magister who isn't like Danarius. Alexius was close but then he joined the crowd. Fenris' version still has a better standing than Dorian's since we have evidence that coincides with how Fenris describes Tevinter.
Perhaps, but Tevinter uses actual enslavement.
Depends.
Its forbidden to make two groups of people slaves:
Those who are citizens of empire and Dwarves.
There are ways a citizenship can be taken away, my guess would be for example if you murder someone and your punishment would be taking away of your citizenship rights. There are also mage slaves so don't assume mages are not slaves. If you are not one of the named two groups, you can become a slave. excellence is reward at the empire regardless of your origin. Elves can have a better life than humans if you they excel enough to be servant of a Magister (yes actual servants not slaves).
True, mages from outside Tevinter are still slaves until their term is up.
As for it being forbidden, things being forbidden and things being done are two different things and the magisters really don't care. We only have to look at all the stories from Tevinter sources themselves to see that.
So is an elf is superspecialawesome enough they can rise to a position that mirrors what their Southern Thedas kin are born into? That is such a good position. 
technically she was a illegal slaver by tevinter standards.. just adding XDIts forbidden to make two groups of people slaves:
Those who are citizens of empire and Dwarves.
There are ways a citizenship can be taken away, my guess would be for example if you murder someone and your punishment would be taking away of your citizenship rights. There are also mage slaves so don't assume mages are not slaves. If you are not one of the named two groups, you can become a slave. Excellence is rewarded at the empire regardless of your origin. Elves can have a better life than humans if you they excel enough to be servant of a Magister (yes actual servants not slaves). Remember that elf in Denerim? The one who served the magister? She was commander of his armies, aka better life than humans.
mae taverbis from the comics and many others. Tevinters arent all monsters, fair amount but not all and most of what you saying is somewhat inaccurateNot really. We have yet to meet or even hear about a magister who isn't like Danarius. Alexius was close but then he joined the crowd. Fenris' version still has a better standing than Dorian's since we have evidence that coincides with how Fenris describes Tevinter.
True, mages from outside Tevinter are still slaves until their term is up.
As for it being forbidden, things being forbidden and things being done are two different things and the magisters really don't care. We only have to look at all the stories from Tevinter sources themselves to see that.
So is an elf is superspecialawesome enough they can rise to a position that mirrors what their Southern Thedas kin are born into? That is such a good position.
True, mages from outside Tevinter are still slaves until their term is up.
As for it being forbidden, things being forbidden and things being done are two different things and the magisters really don't care. We only have to look at all the stories from Tevinter sources themselves to see that.
So is an elf is superspecialawesome enough they can rise to a position that mirrors what their Southern Thedas kin are born into? That is such a good position.
Dorian says there are Tevinter mages who are slaves. If by "magister don't care" you mean someone can be set up so that his citizenship can be taken away then you would be correct. But the fact remains that it needs to be taken away or they can't be made a slave. This was exactly how it used to be in Rome. Citizenship was everything.
No I never said she is awesome. I said excellence is rewarded in the empire regardless of origin. Funny you mention Tevinter stories, there are many stories of heroes rising from slave origin. But there are no stories of an elf leaving poverty and disease-ridden alienages. Grey wardens don't count since everyone can escape to the wardens, its hardly a better life.
mae taverbis from the comics and many others. Tevinters arent all monsters, fair amount but not all and most of what you saying is somewhat inaccurate
I never said they are all monsters. Even Fenris, the man who hates Tevinter and the magisters more than anyone else we've met so far, says he has no doubt that some magisters are noble. But they are the vast minority.
Dorian says there are Tevinter mages who are slaves. If by "magister don't care" you mean someone can be set up so that his citizenship can be taken away then you would be correct. But the fact remains that it needs to be taken away or they can't be made a slave. This was exactly how it used to be in Rome. Citizenship was everything.
No I never said she is awesome. I said excellence is rewarded in the empire regardless of origin. Funny you mention Tevinter stories, there are many stories of heroes rising from slave origin. But there are no stories of an elf leaving poverty and disease-ridden alienages. Grey wardens don't count since everyone can escape to the wardens, its hardly a better life.
Tevinter mages can also mean "slaves owned by Tevinter". For example cattle owned by people in Texas are known as Texan cattle. That is what I mean, yes. With a word, a magister can send someone from being a citizen to being a slave. Plus comparing Tevinter to Rome isn't something that should be seen as a positive.
The elf thing was before your edit actually. Are their elf heroes rising from slave origin, or just slaves in general? Also there are elves who have gone quit high in life. For example Briala can become a member in the Orlesian Court, perhaps the most racist against elves country in Southern Thedas.
Plus I'm referring to Codex entries written by Tevinter magisters themselves about things they did by stories.
I hate vints, but a slave should take their shovel or pickaxe or whatever and put it in their "owners" neck and accept their fate or go down fighting. Slavers are bad....but the slaves exist because they allow it...they do it instead of fight back. You can't fault the vints for taking advantage of how sheep act.....even though its wrong to do in the first place.
Even slaves have choices. I also remember Dorian talking about vints selling themselves into slavery.
Slavery has its place....its just not in the fields. 
I never said they are all monsters. Even Fenris, the man who hates Tevinter and the magisters more than anyone else we've met so far, says he has no doubt that some magisters are noble. But they are the vast minority.
Tevinter mages can also mean "slaves owned by Tevinter". For example cattle owned by people in Texas are known as Texan cattle. That is what I mean, yes. With a word, a magister can send someone from being a citizen to being a slave. Plus comparing Tevinter to Rome isn't something that should be seen as a positive.
The elf thing was before your edit actually. Are their elf heroes rising from slave origin, or just slaves in general? Also there are elves who have gone quit high in life. For example Briala can become a member in the Orlesian Court, perhaps the most racist against elves country in Southern Thedas.
Plus I'm referring to Codex entries written by Tevinter magisters themselves about things they did by stories.
But that's the thing, there is a country on Thedas that you can compare tevinter to and be like "Hey this is so much better than Tevinter". A magister cannot order someone to become a slave out of the blue but this doesn't mean the magister can't set someone up to be the suspect in a murder and be convicted for it therefore being stripped of their citizenship. Political games are played in Tevinter like anywhere else but there is no tyranny like you assume. There are clear hierarchies and rules hence the comparison to Rome.
I tried to raise a point that nationalism is more apparent in Tevinter than anything else. Those who are truly on side of Tevinter are rewarded, regardless of other aspects. Slaves can be treated poorly or treated great by their masters and they have higher chance of leaving slavery than those stuck in slums of south Thedas and it doesn't just mean elves. The dark town was worse as any alienage. Dorian made a quite logical point when he compared slavery to poverty and bad situation in slums of south Thedas.
Wait I just realized something. Weren't you one of the ones who argued how the mages in Southern Thedas were treated was wrong, and yet now you are advocating something that treats people even worse?
Wait I just realized something. Weren't you one of the ones who argued how the mages in Southern Thedas were treated was wrong, and yet now you are advocating something that treats people even worse?
This surprises you?
Not really. "Mistreating mages is wrong but since mages run Tevinter thus everything Tevinter does is superspecialawesome!" is a pretty common hypocritical stance on this site. I was just clarifying to see if I should consider the discussion or not.
Not really. "Mistreating mages is wrong but since mages run Tevinter thus everything Tevinter does is superspecialawesome!" is a pretty common hypocritical stance on this site. I was just clarifying to see if I should consider the discussion or not.
It is a just matter of degree. No one is that free in Thedas. You think elves have it better in Orlais, Fereldan or Nevarra? If you are poor living in alieanage or just a peasant living in some lords land you can be a victim of nobles arbitrary behavior. No one cares about the little people, not even the chantry. How much does it matter if you are killed/raped by a mundane noble out of a whim compared to a Magister?
It is a just matter of degree. No one is that free in Thedas. You think elves have it better in Orlais, Fereldan or Nevarra? If you are poor living alieanage or just a peasant living in some lords land you can be a victim of nobles arbitrary behavior. No one cares about the little people, not even the chantry.
Well, depending on who the new Divine is that changes actually. Yay for creating progress! 
Well, depending on who the new Divine is that changes actually. Yay for creating progress!
I'll only say this once.
**** progress.
It wasn't needed, it isn't warranted and it isn't the time for it.
But Lord Pein, you are all about progressing the world to a new age.
Not really. "Mistreating mages is wrong but since mages run Tevinter thus everything Tevinter does is superspecialawesome!" is a pretty common hypocritical stance on this site. I was just clarifying to see if I should consider the discussion or not.
Not really, mistreating anyone is wrong hence I'm support Leliana as divine and I don't believe in fairy tale endings so I don't soften Leliana. Those who oppose better lives for people in need of it need to go away, by dying if its necessary.
Bottom of the line is Tevinter doesn't deserve any extra hate than other Thedas nations, its that simple.
Not really, mistreating anyone is wrong hence I'm support Leliana as divine and I don't believe in fairy tale endings so I don't soften Leliana. Those who oppose better lives for people in need of it need to go away, by dying if its necessary.
Bottom of the line is Tevinter doesn't deserve any extra hate than other Thedas nations, its that simple.
Yet your posts come off as you celebrating Tevinter, not hating it as much as the other nations.
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