15994 réponses à ce sujet

[The Baconer]

Light mage cavalry would be a lot more lethal than war elephants.

[Master Warder Z_]

Light mage cavalry would be a lot more lethal than war elephants.

That would be insane on a theater scale and up.

Deployment, rotation and losses would deplete the circles every war the Imperium fought if you wanted purely mage based regiments.

Magic is simply to rare and mages actually skilled in war too valuable.

[Uccio]

Sadly think the elephants were retconed... seem hard to code...

 

I think they went the same way as mage spells and specs.

[Warden Commander Aeducan]

Light mage cavalry would be a lot more lethal than war elephants.

I think you may be right, but I think Warder has a point as well, despite all the power at their fingertip a mage who's skilled in war is valuable and rare. I personally believe the Imperium's army is best when there are combination of standard regiments and mage regiments. Still, I don't see the harm of having war elephants as heavy cavalry unit to break enemy's formation, and if they haven't been used for that purpose, it can still serve to carry heavy material or useful mean of transport.

[Drasanil]

I personally believe the Imperium's army is best when there are combination of standard regiments and mage regiments.

 

I honestly don't think Tevinter fields anything comparable to mage 'regiments', they're too valuable/rare to use in that manner. They're probably used as officers, given its a magocracy, and/or force multipliers spread out amongst regular regiments depending on their talents. 

[Warden Commander Aeducan]

I honestly don't think Tevinter fields anything comparable to mage 'regiments', they're too valuable/rare to use in that manner. They're probably used as officers, given its a magocracy, and/or force multipliers spread out amongst regular regiments depending on their talents. 

Since there are more mundane than people who capable of using magic, and let alone skilled in war. Mage are too valuable and rare indeed. I'm not saying that the Imperium's army should be purely mage based, and although there are purely mage based regiments. I think it's just a few and they were used only in special task. I can see some mages who serve in the Imperium's army as officers, or in a role of healer, long range unit for regular regiments.

[Uccio]

I honestly don't think Tevinter fields anything comparable to mage 'regiments', they're too valuable/rare to use in that manner. They're probably used as officers, given its a magocracy, and/or force multipliers spread out amongst regular regiments depending on their talents. 

 

Probably, leaders/artillery support.

[Warden Commander Aeducan]

Probably, leaders/artillery support.

They always make a great artillery support since Qunari War, when the Circle's mages are effectively used to counter those inflammable dreadnoughts, or kill qunari's infantry from long range. I honestly think mages in the Imperium's army are the reason why Tevinter Imperium can keep the Qunari at bay, if there's no mages in the Imperium's military, Tevinter may have been lost long time ago.

[TEWR]

They always make a great artillery support since Qunari War, when the Circle's mages are effectively used to counter those inflammable dreadnoughts, or kill qunari's infantry from long range. I honestly think mages in the Imperium's army are the reason why Tevinter Imperium can keep the Qunari at bay, if there's no mages in the Imperium's military, Tevinter may have been lost long time ago.

 

I think you may be right, but I think Warder has a point as well, despite all the power at their fingertip a mage who's skilled in war is valuable and rare. I personally believe the Imperium's army is best when there are combination of standard regiments and mage regiments. Still, I don't see the harm of having war elephants as heavy cavalry unit to break enemy's formation, and if they haven't been used for that purpose, it can still serve to carry heavy material or useful mean of transport.

 

Hmmmm.... I admit the inner Dwarf in me is trying to think of what the Tevinter Army would be like. I'll have to give it some thought tomorrow after work.

[Uccio]

They always make a great artillery support since Qunari War, when the Circle's mages are effectively used to counter those inflammable dreadnoughts, or kill qunari's infantry from long range. I honestly think mages in the Imperium's army are the reason why Tevinter Imperium can keep the Qunari at bay, if there's no mages in the Imperium's military, Tevinter may have been lost long time ago.

True. Mages were probably the sole reason thedasian troops were able to push qunari back at all in their first invasion according to the dragonwiki.


*story continues*

Spoiler

*"Alam! Finally!" He pointed exited at the large city basking in the warm sunlight. They had emerged from the jungle just beyond the hill and had now a good view on the city. The largest settlement still in the Imperial hands. A stream of people could be seen walking in and out of the city gates. Military constructions around the city and troops stationed there spoke of the current uncertain situation. He wrapped his arms around her waist as Nazlik stepped next to him, "look my love, we are just one step away from a hot bath, a good meal, and clean clothes". With a bright smile he gave her a kiss and started walking down the hill holding her hand.
"Are you sure it is safe for us just to walk to the gates?" she asked looking the city gates concerned, "we do look a bit odd now. Maybe we should be careful".
"Nonsense, I am known in this city. Maker help anyone getting in my way now" he huffed full of confidence.

It took them a hour to get closer to the gate. Midday sun laid its scorching heat on anyone without proper cover. As they blended in with the crowd heading towards the gates Nazlik grabbed his arm.
"We still need to be careful how to proceed. We have no knowledge how the fight went after you were wounded. Hopefully well but best be on our guard. They might have a problem of us popping from the jungle like this after you disappeared from the battlefield".
"Well see about that" he said.
Guards at the gate noticed Nazlik from distance. Several men separated from the main host and started to make their way through the crowd. "You there! Qunari!" the lead man shouted. "Stop right there, we need to have a word with you!".
Ukki grabbed her hand and whispered, " stand by me. I will do the talking. From now on we act according to our status". Nazlik felt a little twinge when he said that, according to our status.

Decanus who was leading the group stepped in front of Ukki. He was a mountain of a man. Bulging shoulders and arms, barely fitting inside his armor. Tiny shaved head with scars crossing his face and arms. A prototype of guard legionnaire confident of his own position. The mid days intense heat had him sweating excessively in his armor, he didn´t seem to be happy to have to step outside the gates shadow.
"Speak cow! Who are you and what are you doing here?" he said eyeing Nazlik totally bypassing Ukki.
Ukki stepped in front of the man looking up to his small eyes. "I am a Magister. I need to see the guard captain or acting centurion responsible for the gate".
The man looked down on Ukki for a moment then bursted into laughter, as did his comrades. "A magister you say?" he said after catching his breath, "and this must be your entourage" he pointed at Nazlik.
His men chuckled at his witty comment but the man himself became serious. "Now, you have but a moment to tell me who you are and what you are doing here. And if the answer doesn´t satisfy me you will find yourself clapped in iron in the dungeons. Mind you it is cool down there but I still wouldn´t suggest going that way".

Ukki took a step back and nodded to Nazlik. With a one swift move she kicked the man in popliteal from the side causing him to fall on one knee placing her sabre at his throat. Ukki lifted his arm and rest of his men sprang up in the air and slammed to the ground causing a dust cloud raise in the air from the sandy road.

"My name is Magister Ukki Aquillius of house Vaellanius. I am a member of the Imperial Magisterium. I have now announced myself. You need to consider carefully your next words. Your life depends on them" he said coldly to the Decanus on his knee lifting a fist before his face with arcs of lightning circling around it, "Think carefully now".

Soldiers at the gate saw what happened and it caused a serious hassle, more men poured out of the guard room and archers ran to the battlements accompanied by couple of combat mages.

Decanus blinked his eyes confused from both by Nazlik´s speed and his display of magic. For a moment he seemed to ponder his options, "my Lord, how may I help you?" he hissed knowing there was no way out of this situation.
Ukki nodded to Nazlik and she sheated her sabre stepping back. Decanus stumbled on his feet eyeing suspiciously both of them. Ukki ignored his doubt, "I need to see the acting Centurion as soon as possible", "The acting Centurion is now Gallus Nepos" Decanus said rubbing his throat where the sabre had been. His men were already on their feet dusting their armors glaring at them carefully.
"Gallus Nepos?" Ukki said, "I need to see him at once".

After they passed the gate escorted by the legionnaries, Gallus, the old veteran came to them running when he heard the news. "My lord! By the Maker, you are alive!". He grabbed Gallus by the elbows smiling, "It is good to see you my friend".
"We thought you were dead" Gallus said, "Some of the soldiers sweared they had seen you laying in the battlfield with your cape on. We could not verify that because of the chaotic situation. I was sent here though to bring the news, after we had moved from the valley. You need to tell me all about your miraculous survival".
"All in good time. Now I need to get to my mansion. I need to clean up and eat something. I will send for you tomorrow". "Absolutely" Gallus grinned, "There is a cart ready to take you where you want. I will come to see you tomorrow my lord at your will".

As the cart driving Ukki and Nazlik left for the mansion Gallus stood there looking after them in silence, "unbelievable" he whispered.*

[KainD]

Magic is simply to rare and mages actually skilled in war too valuable.

 

Look at the Sith in SW though, as a comparison ( not talking about the jedi here, since they believe in self sacrifice ) but the sith are considered ''valuable'', every imperial bows before them, and they are at the top of the food chain, yet they participate in very dangerous battles all the time to further their hold on the galaxy and to improve themselves. 

[The Baconer]

That would be insane on a theater scale and up.

Deployment, rotation and losses would deplete the circles every war the Imperium fought if you wanted purely mage based regiments.

Magic is simply to rare and mages actually skilled in war too valuable.

 

After DA:I I don't think they're as rare as they thought, but even so these would not be large units at all (they would probably be deployed with mundanes for bulk). Which is fine, they wouldn't need to be. They would have the ability to cause a great amount of destruction in very little time, while also being versatile and mobile. Get in, nuke an enemy unit, and get out. There's great shock value in magic, in both the devastation and the spectacle, so they would be excellent at sending enemy units into flight with minimum effort, or breaking apart their formation so conventional cavalry/infantry can get in and efficiently destroy them.

[Master Warder Z_]

Look at the Sith in SW though, as a comparison ( not talking about the jedi here, since they believe in self sacrifice ) but the sith are considered ''valuable'', every imperial bows before them, and they are at the top of the food chain, yet they participate in very dangerous battles all the time to further their hold on the galaxy and to improve themselves.

Which Order are we looking at here? The one that numbered in the hundreds of thousands, the one that numbered in the thousands or the one that followed the rule of two?

Because if you look at some of these orders they remained behind the scenes for a thousand years only emerging when needed.

Either way it isn't the same; Tevinter doesn't have a quarter of a galaxy to support it.

Tevinter has a population, and within that population is a number of magi, of those magi you have a set number actually suitable for military service, within that number you actually have those who are capable of being soldiers.

[Master Warder Z_]

After DA:I I don't think they're as rare as they thought, but even so these would not be large units at all (they would probably be deployed with mundanes for bulk). Which is fine, they wouldn't need to be. They would have the ability to cause a great amount of destruction in very little time, while also being versatile and mobile. Get in, nuke an enemy unit, and get out. There's great shock value in magic, in both the devastation and the spectacle, so they would be excellent at sending enemy units into flight with minimum effort, or breaking apart their formation so conventional cavalry/infantry can get in and efficiently destroy them.

Has a single glaring flaw.

You obviously know that though.

One arrow and you lose a regiments sole advantage over normal forces.

That's the inverse to entirely mage made units, if the mages with them die then they lose their method of attack.

By the time more could be deployed the battle could be over.

It's loss vs gains in battle, is one battle worth a dozen skilled magi? Is a campaign worth a thousand?

[EmissaryofLies]

When you think of an apple, you also think about the opposite of an apple.

[The Baconer]

It's loss vs gains in battle, is one battle worth a dozen skilled magi? Is a campaign worth a thousand?

 

Depends on the battle and campaign. On the inverse, a dozen mages can potentially rout units numbering in the hundreds. Even considering the risks, they'd probably be among the "safest" units on the field. The effective range of their magic is still the same, only they're on a fast horse and pretty much can't be caught except by opposing units of light cavalry. Of course, even in that situation the enemy unit would face heavy losses trying to engage them, and that's if they're even lucky enough to keep their horses under control as they run into fireballs and lightning. When under threat of archers there's barriers to mitigate the damage, but that would probably be best handled by not sending them into situations that would paint them as the primary target within range of the archers.

[Master Warder Z_]

but that would probably be best handled by not sending them into situations that would paint them as the primary target within range of the archers.

Unfortunately that's common practice even for bandits; I doubt even a middling commander would fail to exploit getting enemy mages off the field as soon as possible.

So I'd say do this to Tevinter if it would even matter.

Less mages to fight after a few hundred die playing soldier.

[Drasanil]

Tevinter battle mages would in all likelyhood be decked out in full plate, they're high value and prime targets, making sure they don't go down to a random volley of arrows would likely be somewhere on the radar. 

 

I'm pretty sure Tevinter armies do their best to ensure mages aren't easy targets, otherwise they'd just be squandering one of their principal resources and advantages. 

 

All of this of course precludes their use as light calvary or regiments, which just leaves them exposed and/or paints a big convenient bull's eye for the enemy. 

[Master Warder Z_]

Luckily crossbows exist eh? Just as much distance as your standard long bow with triple the armor penetration.

Plus if you go by the actual ratio for training and equipping men with them, their even cheaper then normal bows

Maker Thedas is a convoluted mess, but light cavalry still falls to a good old fashioned wall of flesh.

Also o.o heavy armors would make deployment of the mages even more expensive then what Baconer was speaking of.

Better horses, better armor, armor training, reduced effectiveness with magic calling for more mages to be needed to achieve the same effect.

And the enemy can still drop you from a football field away.

[The Baconer]

Unfortunately that's common practice even for bandits; I doubt even a middling commander would fail to exploit getting enemy mages off the field as soon as possible.

So I'd say do this to Tevinter if it would even matter.

Less mages to fight after a few hundred die playing soldier.

 

Unfortunately, there are further complications to that strategy. We're talking about using archers to specifically target probably the most mobile group on the field in the interest of removing them as soon as possible. Is there a reliable tactic behind that that will actually produce a few hundred dead mages?

 

 

Tevinter battle mages would in all likelyhood be decked out in full plate, they're high value and prime targets, making sure they don't go down to a random volley of arrows would likely be somewhere on the radar.

 

I think that would actually be defeating the point, at least in the sense of "light cavalry". They want to be highly mobile, impossible to pin down or target effectively, even against opposing cavalry (especially against opposing cavalry). Avoiding arrows would probably come down to "let's not hang around to take multiple volleys up the ass".

[Master Warder Z_]

Unfortunately, there are further complications to that strategy. We're talking about using archers to specifically target probably the most mobile group on the field

Actually were talking about targeting a Calvary unit that will be nice enough to bring themselves into range trying to harass the front lines and positions.

Sure battlefield chaos and all but come on, your talking about not killing the mages after they were nice enough to get close enough for a pike line.

[Uccio]

Tevinter battle mages would in all likelyhood be decked out in full plate, they're high value and prime targets, making sure they don't go down to a random volley of arrows would likely be somewhere on the radar. 

 

I'm pretty sure Tevinter armies do their best to ensure mages aren't easy targets, otherwise they'd just be squandering one of their principal resources and advantages. 

 

All of this of course precludes their use as light calvary or regiments, which just leaves them exposed and/or paints a big convenient bull's eye for the enemy. 

 

Would be rather easier to use medium to light armor accompanied with focus on magical shielding. More maneuverable and easier to carry (for the horses).

[The Baconer]

Actually were talking about targeting a Calvary unit that will be nice enough to bring themselves into range trying to harass the front lines and positions.

Sure battlefield chaos and all but come on, your talking about not killing the mages after they were nice enough to get close enough for a pike line.

 

They wouldn't have to get anywhere near a pike line. Which, coincidentally, is one reason why they would be so great at breaking up a formation like a pike line.

[Master Warder Z_]

They wouldn't have to get anywhere near a pike line.

Of course they would; fronts shift during fighting.

Your counting on horse driven mobility to make up for it.

o.o Of course chances are if they got bogged down in the enemy army they would die anyway regardless of archers or pikemen.

They could simply be pulled from their horses.

[The Baconer]

Of course they would; fronts shift during fighting.

Your counting on horse driven mobility to make up for it.

o.o Of course chances are if they got bogged down in the enemy army they would die anyway regardless of archers or pikemen.

They could simply be pulled from their horses.

 

No, I'm counting on the effective range of their magic (the same as any other mage utilized for "magic artillery") precluding any need for them to be near the enemy army. The horse-driven mobility simply robs the enemy of the ability to effectively retaliate.