15936 réponses à ce sujet

[Geth Supremacy]

Qunari as a credible looming alien menace breathing down the neck of Thedas? Fun. Qunari as the foremost builders of rickety dreadnoughts and Krem PSA deliverers? No thanks.

 

I don't know if you saw it, or even if it only happens if you are playing a Qunari, but when Josephine is asking you if about your history as a merc....if you pick the one about "blowing up a bridge"  You character is like "oh yeah we just got a hold of some gaatlok" or something close to that.  I laughed at loud at that.

 

"The gaatlok is ours alone."

[Drasanil]

I don't know if you saw it, or even if it only happens if you are playing a Qunari, but when Josephine is asking you if about your history as a merc....if you pick the one about "blowing up a bridge"  You character is like "oh yeah we just got a hold of some gaatlok" or something close to that.  I laughed at loud at that.

 

"The gaatlok is ours alone."

 

Nah, didn't see it. As for blowing up a bridge with Gaatlok? Those are some dumb mercs, they could have been set for life selling it to anyone who was interested in figuring out it worked.

[raging_monkey]

I saw gaider' explanation in the scuttlebutt it was acceptable for me though tbh think people are confusing their perceptions as fact. Don't get me twisted while I was satisfied with my product/lore, I understand the "concern" but from the outside it's possible it's "bioware agenda tolerance rawr" but in verse it may be Possibly a clarification of their culture.

I mean we've only seen the military and partially the philosophy sides of the qun.... just a thought

[Drasanil]

I mean we've only seen the military and partially the philosophy sides of the qun.... just a thought

 

True, we've only seen the military but Sten was rather clear on the facts. The whole no choice thing was spelled out rather thoroughly, and given how uncommon trans people are what makes more sense? The Qunari rethinking their position on the matter to accept that women can be men and vice versa, or the Qunari assuming that a transperson is defective and in need of re-education like they do with everyone else who doesn't fit with that they are "supposed" to be.

[Eliastion]

True, we've only seen the military but Sten was rather clear on the facts. The whole no choice thing was spelled out rather thoroughly, and given how uncommon trans people are what makes more sense? The Qunari rethinking their position on the matter to accept that women can be men and vice versa, or the Qunari assuming that a transperson is defective and in need of re-education like they do with everyone else who doesn't fit with that they are "supposed" to be.

I must say I've seen one person giving an interesting view on this thing. One that almost bought me. I can't remember the nick, but it was along the lines of: Qun is founded on Insane Troll Logic. How many Qunari defect and become Tal-Vashoth? NONE. If they defect, they never were Qunari, after all!

Now, let's try and apply this to admitting someone into military. Let's say we have a child that has zero talent for management and thinking in general BUT seems to be gifted with a sword...

...then it's clearly a boy, right?

[Drasanil]

I must say I've seen one person giving an interesting view on this thing. One that almost bought me. I can't remember the nick, but it was along the lines of: Qun is founded on Insane Troll Logic. How many Qunari defect and become Tal-Vashoth? NONE. If they defect, they never were Qunari, after all!

Now, let's try and apply this to admitting someone into military. Let's say we have a child that has zero talent for management and thinking in general BUT seems to be gifted with a sword...

...then it's clearly a boy, right?

 

Ben-Hassarath, she can be a girl who beats on civilians in the streets, no need to join the military. Similarly, it wouldn't explain Aqun-Aflock who insist they are men but are say really good at gardening which is a woman's pursuit after all. 

[raging_monkey]

True, we've only seen the military but Sten was rather clear on the facts. The whole no choice thing was spelled out rather thoroughly, and given how uncommon trans people are what makes more sense? The Qunari rethinking their position on the matter to accept that women can be men and vice versa, or the Qunari assuming that a transperson is defective and in need of re-education like they do with everyone else who doesn't fit with that they are "supposed" to be.

understandable truly that was perception few years back. But again sten/arishok is military and also if memory serves that the qunari can't be sumized for easy reference like the elves are lithe pointy eared people that excell at poverty(humorous line couldn't resist) anyway he was no philosopher in the Qun merely gave "his understanding"

Now if we add the information we get in DAI we IMO come to 2 solutions

A) sten was perplexed by how a woman was warrior(rogue or general combatant what have you) considering how men are only warriors but in krem's place you get bull's answer which to them is problem solved(how qunari do this is unknown to me)

sten during his time with the wardens team (if they survived)had a appiphy and the philosophy branch made some adjustments to their creed (like all faiths/religions do)

[Geth Supremacy]

I saw gaider' explanation in the scuttlebutt it was acceptable for me though tbh think people are confusing their perceptions as fact. Don't get me twisted while I was satisfied with my product/lore, I understand the "concern" but from the outside it's possible it's "bioware agenda tolerance rawr" but in verse it may be Possibly a clarification of their culture.

I mean we've only seen the military and partially the philosophy sides of the qun.... just a thought

 

Right, but if the way you see it is how its supposed to be.  I think for many people that is directly taking away from the "magic" and how unique it is.

 

I'm of the same mind as Drasanil though.  In my mind it was set it stone.  Black and white.

[Drasanil]

Unlike Iron Bull who had a lovely childhood playing blocks, Sten was forced learn the entirety of the Qun by heart. That he doesn't care to explain it to you because it isn't his job, doesn't mean he doesn't know what it is. 

[raging_monkey]

Unlike Iron Bull who had a lovely childhood playing blocks, Sten was forced learn the entirety of the Qun by heart. That he doesn't care to explain it to you because it isn't his job, doesn't mean he doesn't know what it is.

in a way true and I agree to a extent but the reverse could also be said while he may not care to due to only having a spectrum of knowledge or just refusing to disclose his culture to a outsider . all Im saying is we learn more of them the more we engage them. Everything we see have been isolated incidents that erupted into a fight without any "real cultural exchange/take" I'LL be the first admit it borders retcon territory but perhaps its just more exposure. To me they are still alien due to their beliefs but like Alistair said the more you talk the less odd they are

[EmperorSahlertz]

Unlike Iron Bull who had a lovely childhood playing blocks, Sten was forced learn the entirety of the Qun by heart. That he doesn't care to explain it to you because it isn't his job, doesn't mean he doesn't know what it is. 

What makes you think Sten knows the ENTIRETY of the Qun? 

[Eliastion]

In the end, the attempt at humanizing the Qun was... not so great, as the appeal of the race/religion (as something to hate, but still appeal) was that it was SO ALIEN. The changes that make it less alien - even if they weren't as blatantly...

...

...clarifying...

...they take away the thing that was so interesting about them. Want strange but still somewhat familiar cultures? They could flesh dwarves more, or elves, or actually human but "exotic" cultures like Avvar, Chasind, Rivaini. There is plenty to work with. Qunari would be so much better as strange and ambigeous...

But, oh well. Fortunately I never was a big entusiast so it hurts me less than some people I know.

[Drasanil]

 

in a way true and I agree to a extent but the reverse could also be said while he may not care to due to only having a spectrum of knowledge or just refusing to disclose his culture to a outsider . all Im saying is we learn more of them the more we engage them. Everything we see have been isolated incidents that erupted into a fight without any "real cultural exchange/take" I'LL be the first admit it borders retcon territory but perhaps its just more exposure. To me they are still alien due to their beliefs but like Alistair said the more you talk the less odd they are

 

But the Qun is relatively easy to understand once you actually talk to the Qunari. The issue that the Aqun-aflock bring up is that they are directly contradictory to the core of the Qun. The Qun does not bend to accommodate individuals, the Qun dictates and individuals bend to accommodate it. 

 

What makes you think Sten knows the ENTIRETY of the Qun? 

 

Sten, he says so himself. He spent his entire childhood learning the Qun by heart. 

[Geth Supremacy]

But the Qun is relatively easy to understand once you actually talk to the Qunari. The issue that the Aqun-aflock bring up is that they are directly contradictory to the core of the Qun. The Qun does not bend to accommodate individuals, the Qun dictates and individuals bend to accommodate it. 

 

 

I wish you were in that thread a few days ago (the one that was referenced earlier about the "insane troll logic".  I felt like I was the only person saying this.  I might not have been, but it sure felt like it. To me it was so obvious.  I was trying to understand exile better, but our conversation kind of fizzled out.  I wanted to understand that side all I saw was his opinion and not what it was based on game wise.

[raging_monkey]

But the Qun is relatively easy to understand once you actually talk to the Qunari. The issue that the Aqun-aflock bring up is that they are directly contradictory to the core of the Qun. The Qun does not bend to accommodate individuals, the Qun dictates and individuals bend to accommodate it.


Sten, he says so himself. He spent his entire childhood learning the Qun by heart.

idk the basics are yes but the nuances we learn more every three years.

I know a few priests that claim to know their faith absolutely but don't know Genesis (how I have no idea) plus it could have been boasting on his discipline

[Red of Rivia]

For me it's far from religion.

[raging_monkey]

I wish you were in that thread a few days ago (the one that was referenced earlier about the "insane troll logic". I felt like I was the only person saying this. I might not have been, but it sure felt like it. To me it was so obvious. I was trying to understand exile better, but our conversation kind of fizzled out. I wanted to understand that side all I saw was his opinion and not what it was based on game wise.

damn good thread IMO both sorcerer civil and good arguments on both sides

[Drasanil]

I wish you were in that thread a few days ago (the one that was referenced earlier about the "insane troll logic".  I felt like I was the only person saying this.  I might not have been, but it sure felt like it. To me it was so obvious.  I was trying to understand exile better, but our conversation kind of fizzled out.  I wanted to understand that side all I saw was his opinion and not what it was based on game wise.

 

Yeah I don't get the insane troll logic idea. The Qun is a perfectly sensible way to organise a civilisation, once you come to the conclusion that any sort of individuality or "human factor" is irrelevant and likely detrimental to the proper working of society. 

[raging_monkey]

For me it's far from religion.

I was being brief though oddly it's called a religion I'd call it way of gov't and life

[EmperorSahlertz]

Sten, he says so himself. He spent his entire childhood learning the Qun by heart. 

He also said he was helping a kitten train when he was playing with it. You shouldn't take everything Sten says as gospel. Sure, he is knowledgable about it, but he probably doesn't know the entirety of it. If he did, he would have been put in the priesthood and not the army.

 

As Arishok he probably knows the entire Qun NOW, but not then.

[raging_monkey]

Just out of curiosity is "tone" respectful still and not claiming "fact"

[Drasanil]

He also said he was helping a kitten train when he was playing with it. You shouldn't take everything Sten says as gospel. Sure, he is knowledgable about it, but he probably doesn't know the entirety of it. If he did, he would have been put in the priesthood and not the army.

 

From Sten's point of view he was likely helping the kitten train and later got defensive about it because Leliana thought it was cute. As for the memorising bit, I'm pretty sure he was being sincere, since the point he was making was how can you claim to have learned something if you don't know it by heart. 

[Geth Supremacy]

From Sten's point of view he was likely helping the kitten train and later got defensive about it because Leliana thought it was cute. As for the memorising bit, I'm pretty sure he was being sincere, since the point he was making was how can you claim to have learned something if you don't know it by heart. 

 

I can see why people could have differing opinions and while I haven't got down to the level of detail as this when i comes to DAO.  I really don't feel like they left any room for error.  Is there a lot of unknown and mystery? Of course. that was part of the draw, but as far as the basics go IMO they were in your face.  You KNOW the foundation....you just don't know the details. (Well....you DID) When lore establishes something then it is/should be just that.  Established.  It can be elaborated on or fleshed out sure, but you can't change it....well I mean you can cause it was haha....but it shouldn't be. 

 

I appreciate the fact he responded to me.  I just wish we could have covered more subjects.

 

It's not really so much the loss of mystery...I mean that is part of it, but its more how it didn't fit or was a 180.

[KainD]

I do miss the qunari from DA2. Arishok was a worthy adversary. I know bull was the only actual qunari we saw in DAI, and supposedly a good guy, but he was quite meager compared to Arishok.

You know, when you have your priorities straight, you don't have a worthy adversary.

[Geth Supremacy]

You know, when you have your priorities straight, you don't have a worthy adversary.

 

Says the honorless person who would never fight a heads up battle