15928 réponses à ce sujet

[nightscrawl]

Not really...

 

Spoiler

We got to see Archon Radonis and see him explain his view of the Venatori. Issue two showed some of Minrathous; a bustling urban center. We also got to see the interior of a bath house and a magical laser theater show.

 

That's pretty much it. I'm hoping that we'll return to Tevinter at some point. The two leads have been recruited into the Inquisition, so we might not get to go back there until the events of the game have passed.

 

Check out these two threads if you want to know more.

[Heimdall]

Since I haven't read Magekiller, I'm curious: does the comic reveal new details about how the Imperium works? Details that haven't been known until now, I mean.

Mostly we just got to see few scenes in Minrathous and an issue of the Archon taking headgear to new and impractical extremes.

[Mistic]

Mostly we just got to see few scenes in Minrathous and an issue of the Archon taking headgear to new and impractical extremes.

 

We can only hope that headgear will be available as helmets in the next game, even if it's companion-only. Vivienne would approve (wait, no, that's Tevinter fashion, Orlesian fashion has to be superior!).

[vertigomez]

I wonder if Danarius has any relatives for us to run into at some point...

[Heimdall]

I wonder if Danarius has any relatives for us to run into at some point...

One of my hopes is that there will be a plot line involving Fenris' lyrium tattoos. Did Danarius keep working on them? Did a relative step in if Danarius died? Is there an effort to make more like Fenris to fight the Qunari? If the process has been refined, could this be a new spec for warriors? Rogues too?

So many interesting things could be done with that...

[vertigomez]

One of my hopes is that there will be a plot line involving Fenris' lyrium tattoos. Did Danarius keep working on them? Did a relative step in if Danarius died? Is there an effort to make more like Fenris to fight the Qunari? If the process has been refined, could this be a new spec for warriors? Rogues too?
So many interesting things could be done with that...

I don't know if I'd want it as a spec for the PC. Takes away some of Fenris's special snowflake status.

But I love the idea of similar experiments perhaps being carried out by Danarius's successor, or even his rival. I'd like to explore their (possible?) connection to vallaslin, and the long-term effects of the markings. How would they react to red lyrium? Could one pull a Kitty Pryde and wind up unintentionally phasing forever..?

But what I really, really want to know is what happened to Fenris's precursors, assuming he was the first successful iteration of lyrium-Templar-Berzerker warriors.

[nightscrawl]

^ While I agree that the concept can go to interesting places, I think it should be more of a general thing and not Danarius specific. Perhaps he took some already established, (mostly) benign method of lyrium body painting and had a twisted light bulb moment. Unless this claim has been sourced from somewhere, I'm not really keen on the idea that he borrowed from the vallaslin, simply because tattoos in general are not unique to elves.
 
Also, there is this from the Until We Sleep comic.

Spoiler

This was written by David Gaider, so I consider factoids like this to be canon. It seems to suggest that there were already known methods of combining lyrium with flesh to achieve a specific purpose, so manipulating that into something like a weapon isn't too far fetched.
 
Also, in one interview David Gaider seemed to suggest that the markings would eventually drive Fenris mad from lyrium poisoning.

Fenris - What effects the lyrium would have on Fenris is completely up in the air. Fenris was a test case by Danarius, the first of his kind, so anything can happen (lots of jokes about how fanfiction could go crazy on this, haha). It may make him crazy, may give him added powers, we don’t know. Also, since Danarius isn’t around anymore to “maintain” the lyrium (Gaider’s word), it could become unstable. Gaider imagines lyrium like mercury.

[vertigomez]

^ While I agree that the concept can go to interesting places, I think it should be more of a general thing and not Danarius specific. Perhaps he took some already established, (mostly) benign method of lyrium body painting and had a twisted light bulb moment. Unless this claim has been sourced from somewhere, I'm not really keen on the idea that he borrowed from the vallaslin, simply because tattoos in general are not unique to elves. Also, there is this from the Until We Sleep comic.

Spoiler

This was written by David Gaider, so I consider factoids like this to be canon. It seems to suggest that there were already known methods of combining lyrium with flesh to achieve a specific purpose, so manipulating that into something like a weapon isn't too far fetched. Also, in one interview David Gaider seemed to suggest that the markings would eventually drive Fenris mad from lyrium poisoning.

'May give him added powers'? I'm trying to imagine what more they could possibly do... he pretty much hit the superpower jackpot (besides, you know, all the horrible side effects).

Interesting that Fenris was the first of his kind. I either missed or forgot that bit of information, haha. So, no precursors then! Or at least none produced via Danarius.

I don't think I would've made the lyrium markings = vallaslin comparison if we didn't find out that vallaslin were originally slave markings, and Tevinter cribbed a lot of stuff from Arlathan. Though I find it interesting that the casteless also have facial tattoos, which makes me wonder at even more connections, now that we know about the Titans vs. the Evunaris.

Is it just me, or does 'they could graft spirit onto flesh to restore life' sound like a Wynne and Anders situation..?

[nightscrawl]

Is it just me, or does 'they could graft spirit onto flesh to restore life' sound like a Wynne and Anders situation..?

Lyrium has nothing to do with spirit possession... Even if lyrium is in fact alive, it may only be the same type of life that plants have, that is, not sentient. There aren't lyrium entities or beings, there is just lyrium as a substance that may or may not be alive. Spirits, on the other hand, are beings, some of which are sentient, and capable of possessing, rather than infecting, a mortal being. The difference between possession and infection is the key here.

 

However, it does beg the question as to how lyrium affects dwarves, and to what extent. They are resistant, but can still be poisoned by it. But, lyrium strengthens one's connection to the Fade, which is why mages use it. What if a dwarf had lyrium tattoos like Fenris? Would the dwarf be able to manipulate them, as Fenris does? Or because dwarves have no innate connection to the Fade, would they simply be lyrium ore etched into the skin, as any other tattoo (only poisonous), and essentially be inert as far as conferring magical properties? And what's more, surface dwarves lose this resistance, probably one reason why there are some (but few) dwarven templars.

[Mistic]

The idea of a Magister building an army of slaves with red lyrium markings is both terrifying and fascinating at the same time. Even if it doesn't happen, I'm sure red lyrium will play a part in DA4. Remember how in Iron Bull's mission the Qunari were afraid of the effects of red lyrium reaching Tevinter? It can already turn Templars into freaky killing machines; imagine what the most ruthless Magisters could do with some creativity.

[nightscrawl]

^ This would actually be a REALLY interesting subplot of the next game, especially if it involved Dorian, since he has experiences in dealing with it.

[vertigomez]

^Methinks Par Vollen is right to be afraid!

Lyrium has nothing to do with spirit possession... Even if lyrium is in fact alive, it may only be the same type of life that plants have, that is, not sentient. There aren't lyrium entities or beings, there is just lyrium as a substance that may or may not be alive. Spirits, on the other hand, are beings, some of which are sentient, and capable of possessing, rather than infecting, a mortal being. The difference between possession and infection is the key here.

My bad, I didn't realize the comic was referring to lyrium. I was looking at it out of context.
 

However, it does beg the question as to how lyrium affects dwarves, and to what extent. They are resistant, but can still be poisoned by it. But, lyrium strengthens one's connection to the Fade, which is why mages use it. What if a dwarf had lyrium tattoos like Fenris? Would the dwarf be able to manipulate them, as Fenris does? Or because dwarves have no innate connection to the Fade, would they simply be lyrium ore etched into the skin, as any other tattoo (only poisonous), and essentially be inert as far as conferring magical properties? And what's more, surface dwarves lose this resistance, probably one reason why there are some (but few) dwarven templars.

Now I'm picturing Sandal with lyrium markings.

[nightscrawl]

^Methinks Par Vollen is right to be afraid!


My bad, I didn't realize the comic was referring to lyrium. I was looking at it out of context.
 

Now I'm picturing Sandal with lyrium markings.

 

Actually, never mind... I DID read it, but my mind thought it said "lyrium" rather than "spirit," because of the previous Fenris discussion.

 

BUT, I think that realization makes it more confusing, as if "spirit" were a substance, which we know it is not. Even lowly wisps are essentially beings themselves. But I still don't think it's the same as possession. In that case, I'd think it would be more akin to grafting donor flesh onto a burn victim.

[Heimdall]

I got the impression that the tattoos looking like Vallaslin was deliberately mocking on the part of Danarius. It's possible that Tevinter intellectuals is actually aware of the connection between slaves and Vallaslin. Fenris seemed to be a prototype, so I'd like to see further development of that.

I'm not really enthused by the idea of adding more red lyrium. A subplot could be interesting (Maybe the same one with lyrium tattoos?), but I saw more of it than I ever wanted to in DAI.

[Master Warder Z_]

but I saw more of it than I ever wanted to in DAI.

 

It used to be cool and then it was ruined, like a lot in DAI 

[Mistic]

It used to be cool and then it was ruined, like a lot in DAI 

 

I'm not sure. Red lyrium looked like an out-of-nowhere cheap asspull to justify plot events in DA2. In DA:I at least its real nature was explained within boundaries of known lore and it was weaponized in an understandable application of in-universe logic.

 

My only problem with it is that it's OP in more ways than one and now the writers can't put the genie back in the bottle.

[nightscrawl]

I got the impression that the tattoos looking like Vallaslin was deliberately mocking on the part of Danarius. It's possible that Tevinter intellectuals is actually aware of the connection between slaves and Vallaslin. Fenris seemed to be a prototype, so I'd like to see further development of that.

I could be completely wrong in this. That said, I think that sometimes players give artists a bit too much credit**, or think that there is some sort of collective mind at work beyond the standard collaborative efforts. It could simply be that whichever artist (Matt Rhodes, I think) worked on Fenris simply thought that they looked cool. I don't personally think that they look like vallaslin, more like veins of lyrium if I had to compare them to something.

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

** I could think of no way to say this that didn't potentially sound mean or deprecative, but I don't mean it that way. But I do think that sometimes artists will make something look a certain way just for the artistic pleasure of doing so, to be creative, not that there was any sort of reason for it.

[Master Warder Z_]

I'm not sure.

I'm sure chapter five of my fanfiction will be the best one so far.

[Heimdall]

** I could think of no way to say this that didn't potentially sound mean or deprecative, but I don't mean it that way. But I do think that sometimes artists will make something look a certain way just for the artistic pleasure of doing so, to be creative, not that there was any sort of reason for it.

Hm, I actually think there's a banter where Merrill says they look like Vallaslin. Hold on...

Here it is,

Fenris: Why are you watching me like that?
Merrill: You have vallaslin. The same markings that the Dalish have.
Fenris: Yours are not made of lyrium.
Merrill: No, they're made of blood. Our blood. That's what vallaslin means: blood writing. It's a mark of adulthood.
Fenris: Mine were carved into my flesh against my will, in a ritual I remember only for the agony it caused me.
Merrill: I'm...so sorry.

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

I wonder if Danarius has any relatives for us to run into at some point...

And suddenly I'm more in favor of the Murder Knife options returning... >_> (I'd give them a chance first, of course. But the Knife would be at the ready.)

 

Fenris: Why are you watching me like that?
Merrill: You have vallaslin. The same markings that the Dalish have.
Fenris: Yours are not made of lyrium.
Merrill: No, they're made of blood. Our blood. That's what vallaslin means: blood writing. It's a mark of adulthood.
Fenris: Mine were carved into my flesh against my will, in a ritual I remember only for the agony it caused me.
Merrill: I'm...so sorry.

... Though technically, your's are also blood writing, Fenris.    Just blood wrung from stone instead of flesh, so to speak. (Not that he could know that, of course.)

[nightscrawl]

Hm, I actually think there's a banter where Merrill says they look like Vallaslin. Hold on...

Here it is,

 

You'll probably think I'm just equivocating in favor of my view, but she doesn't actually say that they "look" like vallaslin, but rather refers to them as vallaslin, which to me suggests that she might say the same of any such similar markings, regardless of what they look like.

 

Either way, I'd still require more concrete evidence that Danarius took inspiration from them in order to make a judgement. I'm not generally big on assumptions without major caveats that they are assumptions.

[Heimdall]

You'll probably think I'm just equivocating in favor of my view, but she doesn't actually say that they "look" like vallaslin, but rather refers to them as vallaslin, which to me suggests that she might say the same of any such similar markings, regardless of what they look like.

Either way, I'd still require more concrete evidence that Danarius took inspiration from them in order to make a judgement. I'm not generally big on assumptions without major caveats that they are assumptions.

Well, she calls them "the same markings the Dalish have", which seems to indicate specific designs, and I'm assuming as First she is well studied in what designs consist Vallaslin. Granted, Vallaslin designs apparently vary between the clans, but don't think she'd call just any tattoo Vallaslin.

You're right though, it isn't ironclad proof, but I have a hard time believing the developers would give Fenris tattoos that Merrill identifies as Vallaslin (Or at least a related design) by accident.

[Gervaise]

Well in Masked Empire, Felassan says how the Tevinter of old copied elven runes like children and we also know they had foci that looked a lot like Solas' orb.   I think it is a fair guess that Tevinter built a lot of its knowledge and power on items and writings they scavenged from elven ruins.   It is possible that Denarius was basing the markings on Fenris on elven designs either because he had turned up something that indicated they might have special meaning that would aid the magic or simply because he knew they were slave markings and so he thought they would be appropriate to his purpose.     Even the name he gave him was based on ancient elven, whereas his original name, Leto, seem to have no such link.   So if they appear to look elven that is probably deliberate both on the part of the designers and Denarius himself.

[vertigomez]

RIGHT IN THE FEELS.

[The Ascendant]

Is the architecture of Tevinter more Roman or Byzantium do you think?