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[Vit246]

As a final note, I expect slaves to address me as Dominus or Domina.

 

Back to the current sub-topic now.

[Sifr]

One has to wonder if Caridin made them... or there is more than one Anvil of the Void. 

 

Of course it's just as likely Bioware said... "Whatever, anyone can make golems... huzzah!"

 

Caridin apparently made hundreds (if not thousands) of Golems over the several year period he used the Anvil, before the work finally got to him and he was put onto it himself. Wouldn't surprise me if the Juggernauts were among the first made.

 

The Grey Wardens are also completely neutral.  The protect everyone.  So whatever the Anderfels may think of Tevinter, the Wardens would still protect them.

 

In theory at least, yet we've seen that's not always put into practice.

 

During the Fifth Blight, (the real) Blackwall's response to the border closing wasn't to to order his men to cross anyway and protect Ferelden from the Blight at all cost, but essentially to say "Screw 'em, they made their own beds" and let the Blight consume the country.

 

The First Warden also seems to be wanting more political power, especially in the Anderfels, so it might not help to be seen to care too much about protecting the Imperium, at least in the eyes of the Anders people. Whether that might play into their decision making when it comes to troop deployments, who knows?

 

But I do agree that they probably do (or at least should) have some forces in the Imperium, I'd definitely want to see some Wardens who were from Tevinter. Especially if they belonged to some kind of cult or old family who still worship the Old Gods, but believe the Wardens are right to kill the Archdemons because it "saves" their God from having to remain corrupted by the 'spawn.

 

Having some Tevinters who still worship the Old Gods in secret would be interesting to explore at least.

[Mistic]

In theory at least, yet we've seen that's not always put into practice.

 

During the Fifth Blight, (the real) Blackwall's response to the border closing wasn't to to order his men to cross anyway and protect Ferelden from the Blight at all cost, but essentially to say "Screw 'em, they made their own beds" and let the Blight consume the country.

 

That's not very fair. We know pretty well that if a Warden army crossed the border, Loghain would have attacked them. It was bad to lose almost all the Fereldan Wardens, so losing the Orlesian contingent for nothing doesn't sound sensible. Especially when the Wardens' hat is "pragmatic heroism", not "for gret justice". The Wardens have to save all the world from the Blight; if Ferelden willingly becomes an obstacle, it's their problem.

 

Also, we know that Blackwall's words are not the complete truth... because our Wardens met Riordan! Despite Loghain, the Orlesian Wardens still tried to find a way to save Ferelden.

[Sifr]

That's not very fair. We know pretty well that if a Warden army crossed the border, Loghain would have attacked them. It was bad to lose almost all the Fereldan Wardens, so losing the Orlesian contingent for nothing doesn't sound sensible. Especially when the Wardens' hat is "pragmatic heroism", not "for gret justice". The Wardens have to save all the world from the Blight; if Ferelden willingly becomes an obstacle, it's their problem.

 

Also, we know that Blackwall's words are not the complete truth... because our Wardens met Riordan! Despite Loghain, the Orlesian Wardens still tried to find a way to save Ferelden.

 

But as Duncan tells us - and Blackwall's own speech to his troops concurs - the Blight would be infinitely harder to stop if it was allowed to consume Ferelden, rather than nipped in the bud. For the Orlesian Wardens to decide to wait the situation out because of petty politics and letting the entire country fall to the Blight based on the actions of one man, still seems to a pretty callous move.

 

Either Riordan and his comrades chose to risk the crossing anyway against orders (good for them) or the Orlesian Wardens eventually agreed to send in small bands, hoping to stay under the radar long enough to find out whether any Wardens had indeed survived Ostagar they could meet up with, or otherwise find allies who opposed Loghain and were willing to help them end the Blight?

[The Baconer]

Wardens almost always work in conjunction with regular armies during Blights. They would stand to lose more than they could potentially gain by sending in covert bands, or getting tangled up in hostile politics. The Wardens are no strangers to giving up large swathes of land to the Darkspawn in order to regroup. 

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

Perphaps, Tevinter slavery will be not shown as brutal as most people think, after all, I think that Bioware will want to ''keep'' the options well balanced. Or at least try.

Slavery is still wrong and evil. Slavery should never existed in the first place, because you destroy people mentally, physically and spirituality.

[Medhia_Nox]

As a final note, I expect slaves to address me as Dominus or Domina.

 

Back to the current sub-topic now.

 

If I'm part of the Tevinter upper class and I don't have slaves... I'm going to be really irritated.  

 

@N7Phantom:  That's a great notion - and ultimately true, but you don't get civilization without slavery.  There isn't a single nation that hasn't used slavery in some form to build its foundation.  

 

And I would argue that - while not slavery - all states control their subjects in some fashion even today.  Unless you actually think all the taxes you pay are necessary (hint:  they're not).  "Buisness model" or "Debt slavery" is what I call modern servitude to the global economy.  It "can" be escaped - but you'll get punished for it.  So, the vast majority of 1st world citizens simply accept it as "being an adult". 

[Mistic]

But as Duncan tells us - and Blackwall's own speech to his troops concurs - the Blight would be infinitely harder to stop if it was allowed to consume Ferelden, rather than nipped in the bud. For the Orlesian Wardens to decide to wait the situation out because of petty politics and letting the entire country fall to the Blight based on the actions of one man, still seems to a pretty callous move.

 

Either Riordan and his comrades chose to risk the crossing anyway against orders (good for them) or the Orlesian Wardens eventually agreed to send in small bands, hoping to stay under the radar long enough to find out whether any Wardens had indeed survived Ostagar they could meet up with, or otherwise find allies who opposed Loghain and were willing to help them end the Blight?

 

As The Baconer has said, Wardens have never had the means or the numbers to wage war against the horde by themselves. If Ferelden doesn't help, they can't win no matter what they do, least of all if they also have to fight against the Fereldans themselves.

 

Bear in mind that losing Ferelden to the darkspawn and the Blight reaching the Free Marches and Orlais isn't the worst case scenario, no matter how bleak Blackwall's words seem. That's usual business in every Blight, sadly. A worse scenario would be, for example, losing the Orlesian Wardens too in a futile attempt to save Ferelden, leaving Orlais' doors open wide for the Archdemon until Wardens from the Free Marches or the Anderfels can come to help. And the worst-case scenario is, of course, total annihilation of sentient life in Thedas. The Wardens have to be callous.

 

It would be like a pandemic starting in a country, killing most of its doctors. But the government, instead of helping, tries to kill the surviving doctors and doesn't allow foreign doctors to enter the country. Of course it would be better to to stop the outbreak in the first country, but that's not the doctors' call.

 

In Tevinter's case, they are guilty of selfishness, not anti-Orlesian paranoia. Given that they have turned their backs on other countries to save their own hides more than once, it would be out of character for them to refuse Warden aid in the case of a Blight.

[Iakus]

But as Duncan tells us - and Blackwall's own speech to his troops concurs - the Blight would be infinitely harder to stop if it was allowed to consume Ferelden, rather than nipped in the bud. For the Orlesian Wardens to decide to wait the situation out because of petty politics and letting the entire country fall to the Blight based on the actions of one man, still seems to a pretty callous move.

 

Either Riordan and his comrades chose to risk the crossing anyway against orders (good for them) or the Orlesian Wardens eventually agreed to send in small bands, hoping to stay under the radar long enough to find out whether any Wardens had indeed survived Ostagar they could meet up with, or otherwise find allies who opposed Loghain and were willing to help them end the Blight?

Sure.  But the thing is, Loghain wasn't going to let the Wardens nip it in the bud.  If the Wardens marched into Ferelden with an Orlesian army backing them up, it would have been a three way war between the Wardens, Ferelden, and the Blight.  And I think we all know who'd win that one.  

 

So the (distant) second place option was to wait, build up more strength, and deal with the Blight once Loghain was no longer in a position to interfere.  The job gets much harder, it goes poorly for Ferelden, but at this point there's a half dozen more nations on board for the fight.  And remember, the previous four Blights have taken a decade or more to win.  So a long, drawn-out war would not be without precedent.

 

Wardens almost always work in conjunction with regular armies during Blights. They would stand to lose more than they could potentially gain by sending in covert bands, or getting tangled up in hostile politics. The Wardens are no strangers to giving up large swathes of land to the Darkspawn in order to regroup. 

Sure.  That's pretty much what the treaties are for.  Riordan was sent in to Ferelden to find out what happened at Ostogar.  Not to get caught up in the succession crisis.

[Mistic]

It seems most people in the Imperium do speak the trade tongue. I was wondering what Bioware may do about Tevene in a future DA game, but it seems it will be like gratuitous Latin.

[The Ascendant]

I wonder how much time will pass for the next game? Ten, twenty years? We don't want too much time to pass in case some of our old favourites die. It would be a bit like in Avatar where we the heroes of the previous series are all older and wiser.

[Vit246]

It seems most people in the Imperium do speak the trade tongue. I was wondering what Bioware may do about Tevene in a future DA game, but it seems it will be like gratuitous Latin.

It will most likely be Latin, considering the names of the Tevinter social classes. Although what if Bioware had picked Greek like the Byzantine Empire?

[Illegitimus]

Caridin apparently made hundreds (if not thousands) of Golems over the several year period he used the Anvil, before the work finally got to him and he was put onto it himself. Wouldn't surprise me if the Juggernauts were among the first made.

 

 

In theory at least, yet we've seen that's not always put into practice.

 

During the Fifth Blight, (the real) Blackwall's response to the border closing wasn't to to order his men to cross anyway and protect Ferelden from the Blight at all cost, but essentially to say "Screw 'em, they made their own beds" and let the Blight consume the country.

 

If the Wardens were wiped out by trying to invade a hostile Ferelden then they wouldn't be much use against the Archdemon.  

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

The better question is, what do you actually think I said?

It's just surprising when I describe an extreme view and then the response is a nod in support to exactly that.

Hey I'm direct, blunt, and straight to the point with my beliefs you don't have to believe a word I say. If you think that I'm wrong on some things then prove me wrong.

[nightscrawl]

It will most likely be Latin, considering the names of the Tevinter social classes. Although what if Bioware had picked Greek like the Byzantine Empire?

 

I don't think they will outright borrow Latin, even if some of the current words we're familiar with are Latin. I think if there is anything beyond a few idiomatic phrases or constructed sentences -- festis bei umo canavarum (you will be the death of me) -- that they will take heavy inspiration from Latin, but change some things here and there to suit how they want Tevene to sound.

[Sifr]

It seems most people in the Imperium do speak the trade tongue. I was wondering what Bioware may do about Tevene in a future DA game, but it seems it will be like gratuitous Latin.

 

The trade tongue was introduced by the Dwarves, so their historical ties to them would probably the reason it ended up spreading over Thedas and eventually surpassed Tevene as the lingua franca of the Imperium, although we know that Ferelden also owes the Alamarri's trade alliance with the dwarves for how it was introduced there.

 

I suspect that Tevene is still the scholarly language in Tevinter, but the trade tongue has become the default common language. Similar to how the Dwarves seem to have largely abandoned the ancient tongue in favour of their trading language, probably because it's more widely spoken.

 

Dorian mentions being unable to understand the form of Tevene used in the 800 year old manuscript found in the Silent Ruins. Either Tevene has changed despite falling more and more into disuse over the centuries (like the various forms of Latin) or instead there one were numerous forms of the language spoken in the Imperium simultaneously. Perhaps another reason they adopted the trade language was because one singular tongue was easier than everyone having to learn numerous forms of their native one?

[Addictress]

If we have a slave PC, I hope they organize a rebellion.

[Mistic]

The trade tongue was introduced by the Dwarves, so their historical ties to them would probably the reason it ended up spreading over Thedas and eventually surpassed Tevene as the lingua franca of the Imperium, although we know that Ferelden also owes the Alamarri's trade alliance with the dwarves for how it was introduced there.

 

When things like this appear from time to time, I get the feeling that Dwarves, or better said, surface Dwarves have been one of the biggest forces of good in Thedas. Dwarves have managed to introduce a currency system and a trade tongue understood and shared by every country (except the Qunari, perhaps). And they didn't need to invade or convert other countries to their religion for that.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

If we have a slave PC, I hope they organize a rebellion.

If I were an elven mage and a freed from slavery from Tevinter, I'll find a way how to shapeshift into a dragon to unleash hell upon the Imperium. It will be a fiery wasteland when I'm done.

[Sifr]

When things like this appear from time to time, I get the feeling that Dwarves, or better said, surface Dwarves have been one of the biggest forces of good in Thedas. Dwarves have managed to introduce a currency system and a trade tongue understood and shared by every country (except the Qunari, perhaps). And they didn't need to invade or convert other countries to their religion for that.

 

Yeah, aside from the rather cut-throat Carta and Merchant's Guild, it does seems that the Surface Dwarves are probably the most stable force in Thedas. I can't think of any conflict they've been involved with, or at least gotten tangled up with in any significant way.

 

Even Cadash, Brosca and Aeducan were just singular individuals in conflicts that didn't involve any other surface dwarves being involved, save those who had to flee calamities such as the Blight or Breach.

 

I suppose Varric and Bartrand could count, having indirectly found the Primeval Thaig and Red Lyrium. But even that really had nothing to do with them and more those who it ended up falling into the hands of who used it to cause chaos. Same with Bianca not knowing what would happen by accidentally leaking the Thaig's location to Corypheus, believing he was just an interested Warden.

 

Speaking of Corypheus, even the involvement of the Carta attacking Hawke, that lead Varric to track them down to the prison, still doesn't really necessarily make him being unleashed on the world the fault of dwarves. After all, the Carta were being forced to become ghouls by Janeka, who was being manipulated by Corypheus, leading them to all become enthralled.

 

Which is why I'm even more starting to be convinced the Executors are actually long-lost Dwarves, or that Kal-Sharok is going to end up doing something big down the line, because how can Elves, Qunari, Humans and Mages all get into such fracas on a regular basis, but Dwarves remain on the sidelines rather than the forefront?

 

Not that I'm complaining mind you, Dwarves being the most chill group in Thedas isn't a bad thing!

[nightscrawl]

The trade tongue was introduced by the Dwarves, so their historical ties to them would probably the reason it ended up spreading over Thedas and eventually surpassed Tevene as the lingua franca of the Imperium, although we know that Ferelden also owes the Alamarri's trade alliance with the dwarves for how it was introduced there.

 

I suspect that Tevene is still the scholarly language in Tevinter, but the trade tongue has become the default common language. Similar to how the Dwarves seem to have largely abandoned the ancient tongue in favour of their trading language, probably because it's more widely spoken.

 

Dorian mentions being unable to understand the form of Tevene used in the 800 year old manuscript found in the Silent Ruins. Either Tevene has changed despite falling more and more into disuse over the centuries (like the various forms of Latin) or instead there one were numerous forms of the language spoken in the Imperium simultaneously. Perhaps another reason they adopted the trade language was because one singular tongue was easier than everyone having to learn numerous forms of their native one?

 

If we use English as a comparison, it might mean the difference between Old English (Beowulf) and the Middle English (The Canterbury Tales). The years are off, of course, but my point is still there. I wouldn't be surprised if Dorian or other highly educated persons could read, or at least parse out, Tevene that is 400 or so years old, but it takes a true scholar of Tevene to read the older stuff. BUT, speaking it fluently is another matter entirely. In the older periods, it was also common for Greek and Latin to be taught and some highly educated people could read it, but not speak it. It was an academic language only.

 

Dorian mentions the Liberalum in the post-Adamant dialogue. This is found in the Magisterium's library in Minrathous. We don't know exactly what this book is, but he uses it to find Corypheus's real name, along with his family. I highly doubt that is written in the trade tongue. Dorian may have had to use dictionaries and other such reference materials in his research, but he was still able to do it, so he likely has some knowledge, even if not a complete understanding.

 

So, regarding Tevene, I can see it as a tool in academia. Some popular phrases, idioms, and swears would have survived to be used in the current time, even endearments like "amatus." Why not? It's fun to swear in another language, or romantic to use such an endearment.

 

It all seems completely logical to me.

[Mistic]

Not that I'm complaining mind you, Dwarves being the most chill group in Thedas isn't a bad thing!

 

Given the many problems and bad blood in other races, it's quite the achievement, in fact.

 

I have to say that I hope the next game will let us see Ambassadoria. Although DA2 gave us Varric and a better insight into the surface Dwarves' point of view, and DA:I allowed the PC to be a dwarf again, I miss Orzammar and the world of the underground Dwarves.

[Illegitimus]

Perphaps, Tevinter slavery will be not shown as brutal as most people think, after all, I think that Bioware will want to ''keep'' the options well balanced. Or at least try.

 

There's no reason to expect Tevinter slavery to be notably brutal as long as you don't try to quit your job and your master doesn't have any big magical projects and you aren't a mother who has produced children surplus to your household's requirements.  

[Iakus]

There's no reason to expect Tevinter slavery to be notably brutal as long as you don't try to quit your job and your master doesn't have any big magical projects and you aren't a mother who has produced children surplus to your household's requirements.  

Or even not-so-big projects

 

A Missing Slave

 

A Magister's Needs

[Medhia_Nox]

@Iakus:  So, what you're saying is... that Magister Delphine should have gone with cold suppers and torn robes?!  OUTRAGEOUS. 

 

The nerve of some soporati...