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[Red of Rivia]

The Tevinter should be annihilated by fire.

:/ No man, too much hate in your heart, peace and love.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

:/ No man, too much hate in your heart, peace and love.

Ok picture this: If you are an elf and has suffered from slavery and racism from them, would you love them? They raped children who are slaves and butchered slaves with blood magic out of barbarism would you forgive them? After all the evil they have done to people and no justice has been done?? You would have love and peace after what you've been through as a slave?

[Lady Artifice]

Conflict is story, and Tevinter provides conflict. There aren't any actual people suffering as a result of a fictional Empire, so we can feel free to enjoy the story and it what the villains and antagonistic factions bring to it with a clear conscience. That's the beauty of fiction. 

[nightscrawl]

^ Even so, wanting Tevinter to burn to the ground is foolish anyway. Millions of people, normal citizens as well as slaves, would suffer as a result. Things need to change for the better.

 

I can understand wanting altus society to burn to the ground, but not the entire Imperium. If that were to happen, those same people suffering now would still be suffering, only they would have additional or different hardships.

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

Ok picture this: If you are an elf and has suffered from slavery and racism from them, would you love them? They raped children who are slaves and butchered slaves with blood magic out of barbarism would you forgive them? After all the evil they have done to people and no justice has been done?? You would have love and peace after what you've been through as a slave?

So hold trial and execute the slave owners and slave traders who've done that stuff, then. Burning the whole Imperium to the ground, including everyone who hasn't done the things you're talking about, is a bit excessive, to say the least.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

So hold trial and execute the slave owners and slave traders who've done that stuff, then. Burning the whole Imperium to the ground, including everyone who hasn't done the things you're talking about, is a bit excessive, to say the least.

Yes I would start with decapitations with the slaveholders and masters and burning the magisters alive and I'll save the Archon for last to see all of his nation crumble and he'll have my permission to die.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Yes I would start with decapitations with the slaveholders and masters and burning the magisters alive and I'll save the Archon for last to see all of his nation crumble and he'll have my permission to die.

Nobody deserves to be burned alive. 

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

Nobody deserves to be burned alive.

With the evil psychopathic magisters who enjoyed killing helpless slaves and benefiting from it, I'll will be more than happy burn them alive by either shapeshifting into a dragon by burning them in mid air, or with magic by incinerating them when fighting them.

[The Elder King]

Ok picture this: If you are an elf and has suffered from slavery and racism from them, would you love them? They raped children who are slaves and butchered slaves with blood magic out of barbarism would you forgive them? After all the evil they have done to people and no justice has been done?? You would have love and peace after what you've been through as a slave?

We saw already elves that suffered in Tevinter that got over it if they have a change of getting elevated. 

Also, while I'm certainly not a fan of the Imperium, let's not forget the atrocities or injustices a lot of countries in Thedas allow the people inside them suffer. Thedas isn't in general a nice place to live for the common folks.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

We saw already elves that suffered in Tevinter that got over it if they have a change of getting elevated.
Also, while I'm certainly not a fan of the Imperium, let's not forget the atrocities or injustices a lot of countries in Thedas allow the people inside them suffer. Thedas isn't in general a nice place to live for the common folks.

Come on you can't just get over it by being enslaved and lived with racism as an elf and it would be all ok. It's like a person who raped a child and told to get over it, the child's nmind is scarred from trauma by that horrible event will scar that child for the rest of his/her life. Same thing with elves who are slaves to the Imperium and suffered trauma from it.

[Shechinah]

Come on you can't just get over it by being enslaved and lived with racism as an elf and it would be all ok. It's like a person who raped a child and told to get over it, the child's nmind is scarred from trauma by that horrible event will scar that child for the rest of his/her life. Same thing with elves who are slaves to the Imperium and suffered trauma from it.

 

Retaliation seldom helps the child and is seldom done for the child but instead to give others an outlet for their anger or remedy what they feel is an injustice. In Thedas, these feelings would likely not be unfounded but that does not mean that they'd do much to help the child recover from their trauma nor save other childrens from the same trauma.

 

If the victim is a slave of a household and the rape is commited by a member of the household and the crime is not considered illegal by the system then simply killing the rapist accomplishes nothing in the long run because the act can be repeated without a penatly. All the act is likely to accomplish is causing suffering to be divided amongst all slaves of the household and the victim themselves meaning the victim will suffer even more as a result of the act that was suppose to help them. In the Tevinter Imperium, changing the system so that the act is considered illegal by the system and punishable by law is what will help prevent what happened to the child happened to them again and others in the long run.   

 

To my knowledge, what helps the child the most tends to be helping them through the trauma and making to prevent it from happening again. In the case of the household slave, it would be to remove them from the enviroment perhaps by smuggling them out of it.  

 

Retaliation tend to perpretate a bloody cycle that seldom do any or anything good. It tend to only fuel the fire by making more people feel confirmed in the justifications they use for their actions.  
 

[The Elder King]

Come on you can't just get over it by being enslaved and lived with racism as an elf and it would be all ok. It's like a person who raped a child and told to get over it, the child's nmind is scarred from trauma by that horrible event will scar that child for the rest of his/her life. Same thing with elves who are slaves to the Imperium and suffered trauma from it.

Fenris' sister was fine with it. And there are elves in Tevinter that aren't slaves or in a somehow position of power that don't care about their brethen.

I'm not saying the system in Tevinter is good. I'm saying that you shouldn't assume all elves react in the same way.

[Mistic]

Ok picture this: If you are an elf and has suffered from slavery and racism from them, would you love them? They raped children who are slaves and butchered slaves with blood magic out of barbarism would you forgive them? After all the evil they have done to people and no justice has been done?? You would have love and peace after what you've been through as a slave?

 

Not peace and love, but for the good of all, yes, a lot will have to get away with what they have done. That's the sad truth.

 

We like to think of slaves crushing evil societies like Tevinter, but in most cases in real life slavery was ended in more peaceful terms. Spartacus-like figures tended to end like, well, Spartacus himself, and didn't help to end slavery. Abolitionism didn't happen overnight, and in the case of the British Empire the Slavery Abolition Act of 1833 had to compensate slave owners because, from a legal standpoint, they were being "punished" for something that was legal before (think about it; being safe from retroactive legislation is also a human right).

 

If we had to set every country that practiced slavery on fire, our whole world would be reduced to ashes. Transformation is key; no country is beyond salvation if they change their ways.

[nightscrawl]

Fenris' sister was fine with it. And there are elves in Tevinter that aren't slaves or in a somehow position of power that don't care about their brethen.

I'm not saying the system in Tevinter is good. I'm saying that you shouldn't assume all elves react in the same way.

 

Come on now. We don't know that she is "fine" with anything. Our experience with her amounts to less than five minutes of conversation. I certainly don't condone what she did, but neither can we really say that she is any which way based on the minimal exposure we have of the character.

[The Elder King]

Come on now. We don't know that she is "fine" with anything. Our experience with her amounts to less than five minutes of conversation. I certainly don't condone what she did, but neither can we really say that she is any which way based on the minimal exposure we have of the character.

I wasn't actually criticizing her. My point was just not all elves in Tevinter loathe it or woudn't be willing to get up in the social ladder, even if they keep seeing their brethen suffer. The doesn't mean that given the possibility most wouldn't help to destroy the Imperium, but some are actually fine with other elves being slaves while they're in the better position. We don't know that about Fenris' sister, but we do know that about the elven slaver in DAO.

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

If the victim is a slave of a household and the rape is commited by a member of the household and the crime is not considered illegal by the system then simply killing the rapist accomplishes nothing in the long run because the act can be repeated without a penatly. All the act is likely to accomplish is causing suffering to be divided amongst all slaves of the household and the victim themselves meaning the victim will suffer even more as a result of the act that was suppose to help them.

Well, that's not entirely accurate. Killing the rapist would result in a dead rapist where otherwise there'd be no punishment at all. And, if we're talking long run benefits, a dead rapist is very unlikely to commit more rape. And repercussions for the rest of the slaves of the household can even be avoided entirely if you kill the rapist and make it look like an accident or a rival household offing him/her.

 

I'm not normally an advocate for taking justice into one's own hands, but that's one of the situations where, if I could pull it off without bringing more hell down on me and mine, I'd seriously consider it.

[nightscrawl]

I'm not normally an advocate for taking justice into one's own hands, but that's one of the situations where, if I could pull it off without bringing more hell down on me and mine, I'd seriously consider it.

Not really related, but that is certainly one aspect about these sorts of games that I enjoy. In real life you can't take the law into your own hands, but you can in a video game! I quite like quests like Magistrate's Orders where I can do just that.

[Shechinah]

Well, that's not entirely accurate. Killing the rapist would result in a dead rapist where otherwise there'd be no punishment at all. And, if we're talking long run benefits, a dead rapist is very unlikely to commit more rape. And repercussions for the rest of the slaves of the household can even be avoided entirely if you kill the rapist and make it look like an accident or a rival household offing him/her.

 

I'm not normally an advocate for taking justice into one's own hands, but that's one of the situations where, if I could pull it off without bringing more hell down on me and mine, I'd seriously consider it.

 

Eh, I see your point but I disgree as I still think there'd be a high chance of collective punishment issuing seeing as considering it is murder all there needs to be is one bit of suspecion for things to escalate; if the member of the owner household thinks one of the slaves murdered another member of the household or more slaves collaborated to do it, it is unlikely the owners of the household would sleep easily with that suspecion.

 

Considering the means the owners of the slaves might have at their disposal and the lack of rights slaves seem to have, they could either use magic or common means to torture a slave to see whether an accident is the truth of it and that's is if the suspecion do not escalate and they decide to be better safe than sorry and decide the cost of new slaves sits better than the suspecion they have about their current ones.  

 

Additionally, when I say killing the rapist would not prevent the victim or household from suffering repeat rape I also mean that as how the rapist could simply be replaced with another because there'd still be no laws against it and we know there exist a cultural mindset in Tevinter that encourages slave owners to satisfy their desires with their slaves.   
 

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

Fenris' sister was fine with it. And there are elves in Tevinter that aren't slaves or in a somehow position of power that don't care about their brethen.
I'm not saying the system in Tevinter is good. I'm saying that you shouldn't assume all elves react in the same way.

Please. We both know there's an something deeply wrong with the girl, she suffered from post traumatic slave syndrome. Her mind is broken because of her horrifying experience as a slave and they insure that if they're broken they won't be a threat when they get out of slavery. This is based on the Willie Lynch Letter of methods how to control slaves by destroying their minds of slaves and turn them against each other, and that's exactly why the elves are psychologically messed up by the Imperium.

[The Elder King]

Please. We both know there's an something deeply wrong with the girl, she suffered from post traumatic slave syndrome. Her mind is broken because of her horrifying experience as a slave and they insure that if they're broken they won't be a threat when they get out of slavery. This is based on the Willie Lynch Letter of methods how to control slaves by destroying their minds of slaves and turn them against each other, and that's exactly why the elves are psychologically messed up by the Imperium.

Even if we don't consider her, there's the elven slaver in DAO. Again, some elves are in a position of power in Tevinter, and they enjoy their situation.

[Mistic]

Well, that's not entirely accurate. Killing the rapist would result in a dead rapist where otherwise there'd be no punishment at all. And, if we're talking long run benefits, a dead rapist is very unlikely to commit more rape. And repercussions for the rest of the slaves of the household can even be avoided entirely if you kill the rapist and make it look like an accident or a rival household offing him/her.

 

I'm not normally an advocate for taking justice into one's own hands, but that's one of the situations where, if I could pull it off without bringing more hell down on me and mine, I'd seriously consider it.

 

I think the idea is that killing that rapist may help in that specific situation (and only as long as you cover it up and the blood mage overlords don't realize, which sounds pretty difficult), but it won't stop that culture of abuse. If discovered, it's unlikely that the slavers will think "maybe we should treat our slaves better to avoid cases of rightful revenge" (I expect more "These worthless maggots dared to kill a citizen of the empire, we must defend ourselves by making sure slaves can't think of rebellion anymore").

 

Please. We both know there's an something deeply wrong with the girl, she suffered from post traumatic slave syndrome. Her mind is broken because of her horrifying experience as a slave and they insure that if they're broken they won't be a threat when they get out of slavery. This is based on the Willie Lynch Letter of methods how to control slaves by destroying their minds of slaves and turn them against each other, and that's exactly why the elves are psychologically messed up by the Imperium.

 

I don't really see how Varania had a broken mind. We've seen clear in-universe examples of that, but Varania just seemed too used to the Tevinter way of treating others. Or are we saying that all the freedmen throughout the ages have been people with broken minds?

 

And even if her case doesn't count, what about Devera? Not only not a slave, but a slaver herself.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

Not peace and love, but for the good of all, yes, a lot will have to get away with what they have done. That's the sad truth.
 
We like to think of slaves crushing evil societies like Tevinter, but in most cases in real life slavery was ended in more peaceful terms. Spartacus-like figures tended to end like, well, Spartacus himself, and didn't help to end slavery. Abolitionism didn't happen overnight, and in the case of the British Empire the Slavery Abolition Act of 1833 had to compensate slave owners because, from a legal standpoint, they were being "punished" for something that was legal before (think about it; being safe from retroactive legislation is also a human right).
 
If we had to set every country that practiced slavery on fire, our whole world would be reduced to ashes. Transformation is key; no country is beyond salvation if they change their ways.

Some places need to burn. Tevinter is beyond saving after the blood they shed from the slaves and they still benefitting from it. I really want to annihilate the Imperium with my elven Inquisitor if only I can turn to a Smaug-like dragon to unleash hell and I'll go for Orlais and Ferelden as well.

[The Elder King]

Some places need to burn. Tevinter is beyond saving after the blood they shed from the slaves and they still benefitting from it. I really want to annihilate the Imperium with my elven Inquisitor if only I can turn to a Smaug-like dragon to unleash hell and I'll go for Orlais and Ferelden as well.

With those mindset you should wipe out most of the other countries, if not all. Orzammar included.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

With those mindset you should wipe out most of the other countries, if not all. Orzammar included.

Orzammar has already tearing itself apart so why bother? I meant "human" nations who are constantly oppressing elves and killing elves I'll go after them.

[Shechinah]

Not really related, but that is certainly one aspect about these sorts of games that I enjoy. In real life you can't take the law into your own hands, but you can in a video game! I quite like quests like
<a href="http://dragonage.wik...iki/Magistrate"data-ipb="nomediaparse" s_orders"="" data-cke-saved-href="http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Magistrate">

I never felt satisfaction or accomplishment from that quest since Kelder was clearly mentally ill in a time where he would likely never be able to recieve the proper help for whatever he had and he'd been driven to suicide not only because of it but because of what he'd done. It does not change what he or his father had done but it was still hard to see someone who'd likely never had a chance to be treated for his illness have nobody acknowledge that he is unwell and act as if he was only making empty excuses for himself.

It may also be because I can relate to an extent with what he was likely going through seeing as I suffer from what is most likely intrusive thoughts and I'd probably believe demons to be at work because of the thoughts tend to manifest themselves.

Basically, the quest fits with the age and all but it is a very depressing quest for me although I should note that I think it could be an interesting angle of the setting to explore since, well, the setting allows for some interesting exploration. Kelder Vanard believed he was influenced by demons because of the voices he heard and what they tried to make him do but because the Circle of Magi disputed this, he was dismissed. It gave an insight into what it is like to be mentally ill in a world where inner demons are a literal thing.