15912 réponses à ce sujet

[The Elder King]

Orzammar has already tearing itself apart so why bother? I meant "human" nations who are constantly oppressing elves and killing elves I'll go after them.

So you'll massacrate hundreds of thousands of humans for the elven treatment (without considering that not everyone is responsible, but oh well) and you'll let the the casteless continue to suffer and be exploited by the rest of the dwarves, for we don't know how long. Nice.

 

I'm neutral on the whole taking sides in DA, but posts like this make glad Bioware revealed how not so noble the ancient elves were, and how elves will have an antagonist role in the following games, even if only for supporting Solas, whos plan would end up with the death of all people in the current Thedas.

[Shechinah]

Some places need to burn. Tevinter is beyond saving after the blood they shed from the slaves and they still benefitting from it. I really want to annihilate the Imperium with my elven Inquisitor if only I can turn to a Smaug-like dragon to unleash hell and I'll go for Orlais and Ferelden as well.

 

Then you'd burned innocent people and destroy their lives as well given how that would work out unless you think fire would not spread and crumbling buildings would not crush. Burn those places and you'd burn the lives and livelihood of the people you are indignated on the behalf of.

 

How exactly would you go about unleashing hell without harming innocent people in the process? Because as I imagine it; you burn a city and you burn all of its people and destroy all of its buildings. You burn fields and you burn all their livelihood. You'd create a famine, you'd create homelessness and you'd create mass fear. I think the people, elven or otherwise, would be happy to be without your hell.   
 

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

Then you'd burned innocent people and destroy their lives as well given how that would work out unless you think fire would not spread and crumbling buildings would not crush. Burn those places and you'd burn the lives and livelihood of the people you are indignated on the behalf of.
 
How exactly would you go about unleashing hell without harming innocent people in the process? Because as I imagine it; you burn a city and you burn all of its people and destroy all of its buildings. You burn fields and you burn all their livelihood. You'd create a famine, you'd create homelessness and you'd create mass fear. I think the people, elven or otherwise, would be happy to be without your hell.

Pretty much yeah. But I have an alternative if Orlais will talk terms of giving The Dales, The Arbor Wilds, The Emerald Graves to the elves and get them all out of human cities and stay there. If any human step into their territory they have the right to kill them on sight. And if an army wants to fight they have the right to declare war and only in return is to leave us alone for good. Either separation of races is the best solution or a war. I see either two that works.

[Iakus]

  Either separation of races is the best solution or a war. I see either two that works.

I'd argue that separation of the races is what led to the Exalted March on the Dales.  but oh, well.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

I'd argue that separation of the races is what led to the Exalted March on the Dales. but oh, well.

Then I'll annihilate them.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

So you'll massacrate hundreds of thousands of humans for the elven treatment (without considering that not everyone is responsible, but oh well) and you'll let the the casteless continue to suffer and be exploited by the rest of the dwarves, for we don't know how long. Nice.

I'm neutral on the whole taking sides in DA, but posts like this make glad Bioware revealed how not so noble the ancient elves were, and how elves will have an antagonist role in the following games, even if only for supporting Solas, whos plan would end up with the death of all people in the current Thedas.

If you want an honest answer to that, you can PM me if you want to know what my answer.

[Shechinah]

It seems we'll be back to the previous discussion we had about this in another thread. Since this is not what this thread is about, I say we drop this topic or move it to another thread least this one be derailed.   

[Iakus]

Then I'll annihilate them.

You're about 700 years too late...

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

You're about 700 years too late...

Numbers mean nothing to me. I'll still destroy the Imperium if I had the opportunity to do it.

[The Elder King]

If you want an honest answer to that, you can PM me if you want to know what my answer.

Response to what, the last part of my post or the Orzammar thing? Feel free to do so. Mind you, I don't hate the elves, quite the opposite. I just don't like extremist views.

 

Numbers mean nothing to me. I'll still destroy the Imperium if I had the opportunity to do it.

I doubt Bioware will give us the possibility to wipe out an entire race, or even country.

[Iakus]

Well, four Blights , Andraste, four Exalted Maches, and a century of Qunari Wars, have failed to destroy them.  

 

So...good luck with that.  Given they are Arlathen 2.0, odds are they'll only be destroyed from within.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

Response to what, the last part of my post or the Orzammar thing? Feel free to do so. Mind you, I don't hate the elves, quite the opposite. I just don't like extremist views.

I doubt Bioware will give us the possibility to wipe out an entire race, or even country.

The entire "human race" benefits from the misey and slaughter of elves and no one took a stand and say "What we did with the elves is wring and we should all atone for what we did to them." They don't even care and they still benefitting from racism same as the real world. And Orzammar had their own problems so they should solve their own issues without outside influence, not my problem not my business.

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

The entire "human race" benefits from the misey and slaughter of elves and no one took a stand and say "What we did with the elves is wring and we should all atone for what we did to them." They don't even care and they still benefitting from racism same as the real world. And Orzammar had their own problems so they should solve their own issues without outside influence, not my problem not my business.

I don't think Cassandra has ever oppressed elves or has anything to atone for in this regard, to give but one example. Its a dangerous path to use blanket statements like that. Sounds racist.

[The Elder King]

The entire "human race" benefits from the misey and slaughter of elves and no one took a stand and say "What we did with the elves is wring and we should all atone for what we did to them." They don't even care and they still benefitting from racism same as the real world. And Orzammar had their own problems so they should solve their own issues without outside influence, not my problem not my business.

You should recall that the elves weren't exactly the shining example of virtue during the Orlesian-Dales war. While I disagree with what the punishment was (though if not for the Chantry Orlais would've wiped them out), I doubt the elves would've been kinder, expecially considering they thought/think humans were the reason behind the Quickening.

There isn't a country/Race or major organization in Thedas I'd say it's 'good'. Humans are simply those who came out on top. 

I understand the point of helping elves (well, for now. I want to see what they'll do with Solas). I still disagree on extreme solutions. Not that it matters much, as I said, Bioware won't give us that choice.

[Shechinah]

The entire "human race" benefits from the misey and slaughter of elves and no one took a stand and say "What we did with the elves is wring and we should all atone for what we did to them." They don't even care and they still benefitting from racism same as the real world.

 

No and that's an absurd statement; how is the family of human fishers that was born and raised at the shores of their village benefitting from the misery and slaughter of elves? How is the human slaves of the Tevinter Imperium benefitting from the misery and slaughter of elves? How is the human beggar benefitting from the misery and slaughter of elves?  How is the human family dying of starvation and poverty benefitting from the misery and laughter of elves? How is the human hermit benefitting from the misery and slaughter of elves? 

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

No and that's an absurd statement; how is the family of human fishers that was born and raised at the shores of their village benefitting from the misery and slaughter of elves? How is the human slaves of the Tevinter Imperium benefitting from the misery and slaughter of elves? How is the human beggar benefitting from the misery and slaughter of elves? How is the human family dying of starvation and poverty benefitting from the misery and laughter of elves? How is the human hermit benefitting from the misery and slaughter of elves?

The "human race" is made from the misery of elves and if a "human" is struggling to make it and a world is made for them, they need to ask some serious questions of why they're poor and miserable. Me personally I think is karma biting them in the ass.

[The Elder King]

The "human race" is made from the misery of elves and if a "human" is struggling to make it and a world is made for them, they need to ask some serious questions of why they're poor and miserable. Me personally I think is karma biting them in the ass.

If we have to be technical, the fault is on Solas. And we still don't know exactly what happened between the Imperium and Arlathan.

Beside, the Imperium enslaved and tortured elves as well as humans. Most of humans were suffering under the Imperium, and most of the current countries were created by struggling against it. They didn't hurt elves at all (before the Dales-Orlais war, and the elves have their good part of responsability on it). 

They're poor and miserable because the strong oppresses the weak. It happened in Arlathan, it happened in the Imperium. and it happens now. It's not karma. Otherwise it was karma that bite the elves in the ass after they completely disregard of the second blight (which is absurdly moronic, since the blight could've ended their own country as well) and for nearly conquering Orlais, no? You talk as if elves are more innocent then humans, while every elven kingdom so far didn't really shine for their kindness.

[Shechinah]

The "human race" is made from the misery of elves and if a "human" is struggling to make it and a world is made for them, they need to ask some serious questions of why they're poor and miserable. Me personally I think is karma biting them in the ass.

 

First of all; I believe you neglected to explain how amongst others, the human slaves were benefitting from the misery and slaughter of elves?

 

Second of all; you do realize that karma is more or less about a person's own actions and not the actions of their ancestors? Karma, to my knowledge, is; "about all that a person has done, is doing and will do. Karma is not about punishment or reward. It makes a person responsible for their own life and how they treat others." 

 

Basically, it's about a cycle of cause and effect, both good and bad.  

 

Are you referring to the idea of reincarnation which kama is sometimes intertwined with in some religions? Because by this definition combined with that sentiment of yours, the people that were born as elves to a life of poverty and misery are so because of karma.   
 

[raging_monkey]

So much straw everywhere looks almost like a man

[Shechinah]

So much straw everywhere looks almost like a man

 

It's a seasonal tradition: we built a figure out the straws of our discussion and burn it to welcome the next games of the season and as symbolism of the future fires that shall burn on the forums with the coming of said next games.
 

[The Elder King]

So much straw everywhere looks almost like a man

By the way, it's nice to see you again

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

First of all; I believe you neglected to explain how amongst others, the human slaves were benefitting from the misery and slaughter of elves?

Second of all; you do realize that karma is more or less about a person's own actions and not the actions of their ancestors? Karma, to my knowledge, is; "about all that a person has done, is doing and will do. Karma is not about punishment or reward. It makes a person responsible for their own life and how they treat others."

Basically, it's about a cycle of cause and effect, both good and bad.

Are you referring to the idea of reincarnation which kama is sometimes intertwined with in some religions? Because by this definition combined with that sentiment of yours, the people that were born as elves to a life of poverty and misery are so because of karma.

There's a saying: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." It's one of the simple laws of the universe, if you do harm someone you will get harmed in return. "You shall reap what you sow."

[The Elder King]

There's a saying: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." It's one of the simple laws of the universe, if you do harm someone you will get harmed in return. "You shall reap what you sow."

Well then, the current status of  the elves in most of Thedas is caused by the war with Orlais, where elves nearly sacked Val-Rouyeaux and killed a lot of humans.

[raging_monkey]

It's a seasonal tradition: we built a figure out the straws of our discussion and burn it to welcome the next games of the season and as symbolism of the future fires that shall burn on the forums with the coming of said next games.

that's right it's may! *stocks up on gasoline* and it's good to be back full time again

[Shechinah]

There's a saying: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." It's one of the simple laws of the universe, if you do harm someone you will get harmed in return. "You shall reap what you sow."

 

That... did not seem a rebuttal of my post nor a no to my question so you do think that the elves who live and suffer from poverty and hunger do so because of karma? Why are you feeling morally indignant on their behalf then if that is how you think and feel?