15933 réponses à ce sujet

[Shechinah]

I'm reminded of one of my favorite quests in the Sims Medieval;

 

There is a quest that can only occur if your kingdom has very low defense: in the quest, an invasion is looming and you have the option of approaching the quest as the Spy. During this, you gather an amount clues from various sources such as from the town, forest, caravans and even local gossip. After some events, you confront the warlord in the final step and this can occur;

 

"And what do you want, little lady?" growled Warlord Leader Wallace.

 

"Your informant is dead, your entire attack plan known and your secret dalliance with Lady Lovelock of Smortlee is no longer a real secret," replied Under-Spy Sneaky coolly. "I suggest we shake hands, part ways, and never speak of this again" Sneaky stuck out her hand as Wallace's eye widened.

 

Almost immediately, Sneaky found Warlord Wallaces hand in hers.

 

Badass.

[Reznore57]

I so want some political scheme with the Black Divine...I just love the idea of the Black Divine.

Part of the main political muscle the Southern Chantry had was over their policing magic.Their main army was the templars , they had final say over the mages in circles , say if a noble wanted a court mage or like at Ostaggar , you had the Chantry putting pressure on to reduce the number of mages present etc...

But of course in Tevinter this would be really different.The Chantry there isn't even what kickstarted their empire , it was more something that happened when it was the beginning of the end for them.

 

So you'd think the Black Divine would just be some kind of figurehead , which well he might be , but the way Dorian was talking about him you got a sense that people were scared s***less of the dude.

It might be because the Black Divine , himself , kill rivals ...after he is elected , a purge starts .

Or when Dorian talks of the Black Divine and murder at a party.I can't remember with whom he is having this banter but the person goes "Oh dear someone tried to kill your Divine at a ball!" and Dorian replies "Oh , no! " like you know no one would dare to do that , "Nah , the Black Divine was killing someone at a party...."and it feels all very casual.

[Mistic]

Basically, I believe that providing the player character the option to become Archon is a good way of ensuring we'll never see the Tevinter Imperium nor see it featured for a long time. Also, we'd a lot of people pointing out how that is not how their characters would have acted and that they'd have interfered in this and that.

 

Ironically, that's the very reason I want for it to happen.

 

It's not as if forcing the PCs to do something players don't want is new. It happened with the Warden, it happened with Hawke and we didn't even need a new game to see the Inquisitor themselves be sidelined in the last DLC. If Bioware is going to put the next PC on a bus, I want a better excuse than "they were conveniently looking for a cure at the other side of the continent", "they were hiding because afraid", "they couldn't stop Ferelden from bullying them".

 

At least, "too busy ruling" sounds more believable (we know how stressful it can be in real life, even visually). The same Alistair isn't going on adventure if he becomes king of Ferelden, and Varric will stay in Kirkwall now, it's easy to have the former PC distracted with, I don't know, wars in Seheron, darkspawn control, border tensions, diplomatic meetings, and that's without counting social upheaval depending on what happens during the game.

[The Elder King]

,Because he means "white people", those he already associates with racial oppressors through biological predisposition. That's why he singled out the Rivaini earlier as a group that would be cool to the elves, they're not white so they can't be racial oppressors. Gotta remember how he's projecting his whole racial world view onto the setting here.

He's pretty consistent. We're dealing with someone who has embraced pseudoscientific racism here.

 

Not that it'd ever happen given the Rivaini's stances, but I wonder what he'd day if they go against elves for whatever reason, maybe after Fen'harel plans is revealed (and fails).

For those curious, this is the outfit we're talking about;
http://i163.photobuc...zpsnyrqjunk.png
 
Here's the comic panel with the "There is no glory in extinction" line;
https://40.media.tum...xftfko1_500.png

 

He looks cools, and he sounds interesting. I hope they don't make him die, but considering Cailan, Endrin, Dumar, and Justinia, I wouldn't hold my hopes up.

 

As for our PC being the ruler, I don't think this will ever happer. They did it briefly in Ferelden (As a consort) and Kirkwall, but they left soon enough. Expecially for a big country organization it'll be hard to make it while still giving the player the choice of pursuit the path, and even when they don't (Inquisition), it seems restrained to a game (Since the inquisition at the end of Trespasser is either disbanded or lost most of his powers). To make the PC a king it should be something that we won't have a choice, and to make it worthwile either game or the following one should span for several years. I'm not sure it's a path they'd pursue.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

,Because he means "white people", those he already associates with racial oppressors through biological predisposition. That's why he singled out the Rivaini earlier as a group that would be cool to the elves, they're not white so they can't be racial oppressors. Gotta remember how he's projecting his whole racial world view onto the setting here.
He's pretty consistent. We're dealing with someone who has embraced pseudoscientific racism here.

If you think I am lying then why DA based it on real history of these issues? Or do you rather believe a lie?

Modifié par N7Phantom, 03 mai 2016 - 02:56 .

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

I wish they could set up for you to free slaves and send them to the Fog Warriors, the Qunari, or the Dalish Elves for Elves to turn to.

[raging_monkey]

If you think I am lying then why DA based it on real history of these issues? Or do you rather believe a lie?

because it's generic and imo it's more national identity and speciesim than racism.

And really just drop your agenda and enjoy the fictional universe

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

because it's generic and imo it's more national identity and speciesim than racism.
And really just drop your agenda and enjoy the fictional universe

I rather live in reality than fiction. Keeps me sane.

[raging_monkey]

I rather live in reality than fiction. Keeps me sane.

apologies but I find your perception skwered.

But enough back to the fandom

[The Elder King]

If you think I am lying then why DA based it on real history of these issues? Or do you rather believe a lie?

It's not based on real history, and not only because of magic, The history of black people isn't the same as elves in DA. You're taking things out of context to fits your belief. And then use it to criticize the writers of making elves 'bad' to make them feel better for something that happened in real history that they have absolutely no responsibility on it.

[raging_monkey]

It's not based on real history, and not only because of magic, The history of black people isn't the same as elves in DA. You're taking things out of context to fist your belief. And then use it to criticize the writers of making elves 'bad' to make them feel better for something that happened in real history that they have absolutely no responsibility on it.

black American greatly approves

[straykat]

lol... Hell.. I experienced some nasty racism in my day too, but I don't have this much of a chip on my shoulder. I've seen literal neo-Nazis raid parties and beat up people (including girls), and I'm still not all "Kill Whitey!".... nor try to justify it. I've fended off 5 people at a time, while being called a "Rice Cooker".. and I still can differentiate other people from them.

 

You gotta find this in yourself...

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

It's not based on real history, and not only because of magic, The history of black people isn't the same as elves in DA. You're taking things out of context to fist your belief. And then use it to criticize the writers of making elves 'bad' to make them feel better for something that happened in real history that they have absolutely no responsibility on it.

If you believe otherwise that's fine I don't expect anyone to agree with me. But I still believe the elves are based on all indigenous PoC.

[straykat]

If you believe otherwise that's fine I don't expect anyone to agree with me. But I still believe the elves are based on all indigenous PoC.

 

I would agree with that, but I wouldn't say it's just the black experience. It's a mix of things. Indigenous, some of the African American experience, plus Jewish ghettos...

 

I wish there was a bigger equaivalent to the African American experience. Where it turned out many City Elves hold the banner for Andrastianism better than the humans do. Like the abolitionists or civil rights did for Christians. They shamed people with their own beliefs.

 

But elves aren't like that. There's a bigger native American type of strain... where it's about the lost past.

[raging_monkey]

Maybe jews and celts maybe but very miniscule at best. And if you want to split hairs everyone is a poc if take pigment into consideration. Just let it go and contribute to this subfandom or go elsewhere. Play day or if you want imo Damn good poc rep

[The Elder King]

I would agree with that, but I wouldn't say it's just the black experience. It's a mix of things. Indigenous, some of the African American experience, plus Jewish ghettos...

 

I wish there was a bigger equaivalent to the African American experience. Where it turned out many City Elves hold the banner for Andrastianism better than the humans do. Like the abolitionists or civil rights did for Christians. They shamed people with their own beliefs.

 

But elves aren't like that. There's a bigger native American type of strain... where it's about the lost past.

 

 

Maybe jews and celts maybe but very miniscule at best. And if you want to split hairs everyone is a poc if take pigment into consideration. Just let it go and contribute to this subfandom or go elsewhere. Play day or if you want imo Damn good poc rep

The fact that the elves in southern thedas are treated more like the Jews is one of the reason that make me thing there isn't a direct influence of the real history treatment of black people in the elves.

Plus, the country that do actually have elves as slaves is the Imperium, which is loosely based on the Roman Empire, and the Romans enslaved every kind of people. Which is rapresented by the fact that the Imperium have tons of human slaves as well.

[raging_monkey]

The fact that the elves in southern thedas are treated more like the Jews is one of the reason that make me thing there isn't a direct influence of the real history treatment of black people in the elves.
Plus, the country that do actually have elves as slaves is the Imperium, which is loosely based on the Roman Empire, and the Romans enslaved every kind of people. Which is rapresented by the fact that the Imperium have tons of human slaves as well.

my count they enslave everyone but dwarves and yet introduced species

[The Elder King]

my count they enslave everyone but dwarves and yet introduced species

Yes, dwarves aren't enslaved because of the alliance between them

What do you mean that they introduced species? 

[nightscrawl]

^ raging_monkey means races we don't know about yet, that may or may not exist currently, like the suggested fex.

I'm hoping not, really. I think four main races in Dragon Age is enough.

[straykat]

I wish there been more races actually.. but it feels too late now.

 

And at this point, they've diluted things where most of it just seems human. If they wanted a diverse setting, they should've started at the beginning, like D&D. In which case, there'd be dozens of types of elves alone. And they'd all be killing each other too.

 

I find more diversity in the nations of humans, than I do these races.

[nightscrawl]

^ How do you mean "most of it just seems human"?

 

The qunari are off on their island, the dwarves are holed up in their subterranean cities, and the elves are reduced to living in ghettos, as slaves, or being nomads. Humans are the majority population of Thedas, especially southern Thedas.

 

I don't think they were aiming for a particularly diverse setting with their races. I think they had these races, especially elves and dwarves, that they wanted to depict in a different way from the typical D&D fantasy versions, and they've done exactly that. They also added their own mysterious race and society, the qunari/Qunari. They have an actual history developed that shows why and how humans rose to predominance in Thedas and the status of the other races reflects that.

 

The elves got a TON of additional lore in DAI, so I don't see how there is any dilution there. The dwarves got some bits with Descent, but they need work. We still know very little about the qunari, but I'm betting that will change.

[straykat]

^ How do you mean "most of it just seems human"?

 

The qunari are off on their island, the dwarves are holed up in their subterranean cities, and the elves are reduced to living in ghettos, as slaves, or being nomads. Humans are the majority population of Thedas, especially southern Thedas.

 

I don't think they were aiming for a particularly diverse setting with their races. I think they had these races, especially elves and dwarves, that they wanted to depict in a different way from the typical D&D fantasy versions, and they've done exactly that. They also added their own mysterious race and society, the qunari/Qunari. They have an actual history developed that shows why and how humans rose to predominance in Thedas and the status of the other races reflects that.

 

The elves got a TON of additional lore in DAI, so I don't see how there is any dilution there. The dwarves got some bits with Descent, but they need work. We still know very little about the qunari, but I'm betting that will change.

 

I'm talking about playable characters. Running around in Tywin Lannister suits, making all the same comments, same jokes, same level of familiarity/comfort/adeptness with human society, same dance moves with Celene Even down to being an expert on their damn religions and uprooting the foundations of societies.

 

It's stupid. Nothing distinguishes them except appearance. And it's ironically the most racist mindset you can do... to reduce races to mere appearance.

 

The lore itself has some good things to work with. But that means nothing as far as games go.

[Illegitimus]

If you think I am lying then why DA based it on real history of these issues? Or do you rather believe a lie?

 

DA's inspiration for the elves is the Jews and Gypsies (and a deliberate counterstereotyping of Tolkien elves, so that they're pretty much everything Tolkien elves aren't)

[Iakus]

If you think I am lying then why DA based it on real history of these issues? Or do you rather believe a lie?

DA is based on "real history" in the same way Game of Thrones is based on the Wars of the Roses.

[nightscrawl]

I'm talking about playable characters. Running around in Tywin Lannister suits, making all the same comments, same jokes, same level of familiarity/comfort/adeptness with human society, same dance moves with Celene Even down to being an expert on their damn religions and uprooting the foundations of societies.
 
It's stupid. Nothing distinguishes them except appearance. And it's ironically the most racist mindset you can do... to reduce races to mere appearance.
 
The lore itself has some good things to work with. But that means nothing as far as games go.

I look at that as a limitation of game development more than anything else. Remember, we wouldn't have gotten the other races in DAI -- something that MANY people really wanted -- if it hadn't been for the extra year of development time.

 

As far as only appearance goes, the preference for that, versus having more differentiation, will vary from player to player. I don't think you can say that it's racist if it applies only to the player character, rather than all of the NPCs over all the races in the series. The player character, by necessity, is different from all NPCs.

 

 

[edit]

There are also roleplay limitations to consider and not defining the PC too much in either direction.

 

I suspect we will continue to disagree about this...

Modifié par nightscrawl, 03 mai 2016 - 06:17 .