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[The Elder King]

On a side note, I wish people would stop talking shite about Dalish worshiping their native gods. Their religion works out for them and they don't need foreign gods. Thats what matters.

It's not about worshipping foreign gods. It's about theirs being pieces of crap. 

Not that the Andrastian faith ends well from DAI and Trespasser. One religions found out their 'gods' are real but evil powerful beings who seem to have inspired the magisters, the other end up with serious doubts on their God' existence.

Roleplaying a dalish or an Andrastian after knowing those things is really interesting.

[Heimdall]

On a side note, I wish people would stop talking shite about Dalish worshiping their native gods. Their religion works out for them and they don't need foreign gods. Thats what matters.

I actually agree, though I tend to see the primary purpose of religion as social and psychological, regardless of whether or not it is true.  It doesn't particularly matter what the real thing was like.

[straykat]

It's not about worshipping foreign gods. It's about theirs being pieces of crap. 

Not that the Andrastian faith ends well from DAI and Trespasser. One religions found out their 'gods' are real but evil powerful beings who seem to have inspired the magisters, the other end up with serious doubts on their God' existence.

Roleplaying a dalish or an Andrastian after knowing those things is really interesting.

 

I don't think Andrastian stuff is that touched. It was a deistic religion to begin with. It was the Herald idea that was stupid -- and it was frowned upon by the religion itself. Andraste said the Maker doesn't care. And even the Guardian in DAO said true believers don't require signs.

 

Why everyone suddenly wanted to believe in a Herald, I don't know. My cynical side thinks it was invented from some Marketing idiot, and the writers had to go along.

[Hellion Rex]

On a side note, I wish people would stop talking shite about Dalish worshiping their native gods. Their religion works out for them and they don't need foreign gods. Thats what matters.

I think that these days it's more of the issue that us as players know that their gods were assholes. But to me personally, if when learning the truth they'd rather worship these idealized versions of their gods, then that's their business.

[The Elder King]

I don't think Andrastian stuff is that touched. It was deistic religion to begin with. It was the Herald idea that was stupid -- and it was frowned upon by the religion itself. Andraste said the Maker doesn't care. And even the Guardian in DAO said true believers don't require signs.

It's one thing to say the Maker doesn't care. It's another if they'll found out that one of the 'accomplishments' of the Maker was made by an elven 'god', which might mean that the Maker doesn't exist or, even worse for their perspective, it might be Fen'harel (I'm not saying he is. But it is certainly a thought that might appear in someone's mind if this knowledge will be revealed).

[straykat]

I think that these days it's more of the issue that us as players know that their gods were assholes. But to me personally, if when learning the truth they'd rather worship these idealized versions of their gods, then that's their business.

 

I think they should just build a whole religion around June... if they insist on Dalish gods.

 

He's mysterious.. you can make him what you want.

[Hellion Rex]

 

 

Why everyone suddenly wanted to believe in a Herald, I don't know. My cynical side thinks it was invented from some Marketing idiot, and the writers had to go along.

Hardly. It makes sense from a writing perspective. For all intents and purposes, the Divine was dead, a full on Breach was in the sky AND growing larger, and so it looked like the end of the world to many. On top of that, they saw the glowing woman they took to be Andraste and they see you walk out of a rift and then you stabilize the Breach so that it stops growing. Based on that, I can see why people might think you're an agent of the Maker, especially people that are desperate for hope.

[straykat]

It's one thing to say the Maker doesn't care. It's another if they'll found out that one of the 'accomplishments' of the Maker was made by an elven 'god', which might mean that the Maker doesn't exist or, even worse for their perspective, it might be Fen'harel (I'm not saying he is. But it is certainly a thought that might appear in someone's mind if this knowledge will be revealed).

 

Funnily though, even Solas is open to the idea of the Maker.

[The Elder King]

I think that these days it's more of the issue that us as players know that their gods were assholes. But to me personally, if when learning the truth they'd rather worship these idealized versions of their gods, then that's their business.

I agree with this. They are free to believe what they want. Though considering the truth behind them, their actions (they act in the same way of the magisters they loathe) and the truth on the vallaslin, I don't think they won't be shocked.

[Heimdall]

I don't think Andrastian stuff is that touched. It was a deistic religion to begin with. It was the Herald idea that was stupid -- and it was frowned upon by the religion itself. Andraste said the Maker doesn't care. And even the Guardian in DAO said true believers don't require signs.

 

Why everyone suddenly wanted to believe in a Herald, I don't know. My cynical side thinks it was invented from some Marketing idiot, and the writers had to go along.

It isn't that out there.  It isn't inconceivable that the common people would be attracted to the idea of a god that actually helps them on a practical level.

 

Andraste taught that the people could prove themselves worthy of the maker and draw his attention back to the world.  I think there's room for small acts of interference in the world in the theology.

[straykat]

Hardly. It makes sense from a writing perspective. For all intents and purposes, the Divine was dead, a full on Breach was in the sky AND growing larger, and so it looked like the end of the world to many. On top of that, they saw the glowing woman they took to be Andraste and they see you walk out of a rift and then you stabilize the Breach so that it stops growing. Based on that, I can see why people might think you're an agent of the Maker, especially people that are desperate for hope.

 

People don't just change the entire paradigms of their belief systems like that. I'm not convinced, and it didn't even fool me at launch. It just seems like a silly marketing stunt.

 

If your religion is Deist, it doesn't just turn Theist... simply because both are "religion". It's like expecting Buddhists to believe in gods.

[raging_monkey]

Back to slavery... In sure register has much more fascinating subject lol

[The Elder King]

Funnily though, even Solas is open to the idea of the Maker.

Indeed He knows after all that the elven 'gods', himself included, aren't really such. A real Maker/Creator/whatever might exist, though I'm not sure he's the one Andrastians worship, since some of the actions aren't really his.

[straykat]

It isn't that out there.  It isn't inconceivable that the common people would be attracted to the idea of a god that actually helps them on a practical level.

 

Andraste taught that the people could prove themselves worthy of the maker and draw his attention back to the world.  I think there's room for small acts of interference in the world in the theology.

 

I can understand some being like that, but they were unique. That's what made Leliana stand out. Once the whole world is like Leliana, it takes the fun out of it for me.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I agree with this. They are free to believe what they want. Though considering the truth behind them, their actions (they act in the same way of the magisters they loathe) and the truth on the vallaslin, I don't think they won't be shocked.

I still laugh at that. When we were confirmed to be Dalish, I didn't want to have the Vallaslin but people told me we had to because it's culture and a mark of freedom blahblahblah, and then it turns out that they are literally a "Property of" stamp. 

[The Elder King]

I can understand some being like that, but they were unique. That's what made Leliana stand out. Once the whole world is like Leliana, it takes the fun out of it for me.

Consider that they believed and worship Andraste though, which was 'sent' by the Maker after he already turned his back on mortals once. He might as well as changed his mind again, from their perspective.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

O____o

I can't even.


Edit: Yes, I can even. This is an extremely close minded point of view. It's because of views like this that Red Crossing was such a disaster. Because a group of Dalish could never accept that a human and elf could get along, let alone fall in love, conflict was ignited that left the elves with heavy casualties.

Isolationism and ignorant antagonism will get you absolutely nowhere, both in Dragon Age and in real life. You do your argument no credit with such baseless assertions.

Ok. Then what's your solution to solve this problem?

[The Elder King]

I still laugh at that. When we were confirmed to be Dalish, I didn't want to have the Vallaslin but people told me we had to because it's culture and a mark of freedom blahblahblah, and then it turns out that they are literally a "Property of" stamp. 

That would surely be a major shock once it'll be discovered. 

I kind of wish I was here after release to see the reaction to many of the reveals in both the main game and the various dlcs.

[straykat]

Consider that they believes and worship Andraste though, which was 'sent' by the Maker after he already turned his back on mortals once. He might as well as changed his mind again, from their perspective.

 

Even if that's the case, I don't see what makes us her Herald. We don't do anything as cool as Andraste. Why would I remind people of Andraste so much? She marched an army across a contient and freed slaves. My character is a chump.

[straykat]

Scratch that, I freed the Redcliffe mages... which is ironically the only Andrastian type of thing I do.

 

But even that is pretty weak. It's not that epic looking.

[Heimdall]

As someone who took European history like 8 times and never got a satisfying explanation for many different phenomena, I think sometimes you just need to go with your gut to understand.

 

But I mean sure, like Marcus Aurelius was kind of inspiring I guess, Octavian seemed maybe all right in the beginning. Maybe early on it kinda meant something, who knows.

 

Of course, there is also substantial settlement and legacies that live on, bath houses, aqueducts, and so on and so forth.

 

But what was Rome's contribution? Did they not just rip off the Greeks who likely ripped off someone else and simply apply some concept of "civilization" first to a wide swath of area?

 

That in and itself doesn't really win plaudits it seems to me, deriving as it does from geographic proximity and happenstance in some ways.

 

But sure, I can be more even-handed, but the statist concept of Rome and "Roman" separate from accident and circumstance was really just not that great, and was, IMHO, pretty evil.

 

The people who followed it, the precise situations that people found themselves in and all that? I'm sure it was much improved, and had lots of heroic figures or people or causes and moments, but the overall tenor of Rome was more or less one of conquest and dominion.

The Romans did borrow a lot from the greeks, but they weren't without their own cultural developments and contributed to the western philosophical tradition.  Amongst other things including no shortage of architectural and administrative achievements that formed the basis of western traditions of architecture and law.

 

I have difficulty applying the term "evil" or other types of judgement because that would be applying my 21st century western liberal sense of morality to people that could not possibly have shared the same understanding.

[The Elder King]

Even if that's the case, I don't see what makes us her Herald. We don't do anything as cool as Andraste. Why would I remind people of Andraste so much? She marched an army across a contient and freed slaves. My character is a chump.

You are able to manipulate the Fade, something the Maker supposedly created. I can see why it's seen as a godlike ability.

And they saw that they believed to be Andraste during the prologue. They thought she chose us.

[Vit246]

I still laugh at that. When we were confirmed to be Dalish, I didn't want to have the Vallaslin but people told me we had to because it's culture and a mark of freedom blahblahblah, and then it turns out that they are literally a "Property of" stamp. 

 

The context for vallaslin being slave marks doesn't exist anymore and it still doesn't change the fact that each vallaslin had always represented a particular god. Symbols change. They don't need to adopt a pathetic defeatist attitude and do away with it.

[straykat]

You are able to manipulate the Fade, something the Maker supposedly created. I can see why it's seen as a godlike ability.

And they saw that they believed to be Andraste during the prologue. They thought she chose us.

 

If there wasn't already so much magic, it'd be more stupefying.

 

But ho hum.... and all that.

[Seraphim24]

The Romans did borrow a lot from the greeks, but they weren't without their own cultural developments and contributed to the western philosophical tradition.  Amongst other things including no shortage of architectural and administrative achievements that formed the basis of western traditions of architecture and law.

 

I have difficulty applying the term "evil" or other types of judgement because that would be applying my 21st century western liberal sense of morality to people that could not possibly have shared the same understanding.

 

There's nothing more 21st century liberal than the concept of relativism, it seems to me, my concept of "evil" and moral judgments comes from somewhere else entirely, it seems to me, although so we're there, is IMO.

 

And they pretty were without any cultural developments, what was their philosophical tradition? Stocism? The notion of, stoicsim? Not sure I'm with ya there..

 

Or Neoplatonism... er?

 

Their architectural achievements were mostly just kind of a maxed out version of Greek ones, as well, just a change in scale. It was still the dome, the arch, the, whatever.

 

As far as canonical "Roman law" well I guess um Italy,, a lot of France.... would not exactly say that's everywhere, plus each of those places give their own spin anyway.

 

I'm sure many would contest this (given the contrast in strict legal systems) but it has somewhat of a presence of some kind in Anglo-Saxon England as well as pieces of America IMHO, although it not present in the same way, but more by reference to them in those places as a standard for "classical civilizations" and such.