15959 réponses à ce sujet

[Heimdall]

But what happened to the Native Americans who were here first? Why they stuck on reservations? Why they have forgotten their language, their culture, their heratige?

Didn't you previously think native americans were extinct?

[straykat]

If you want a deep conversation my inbox is always open.

 

I really don't want a conversation. I just wish you'd relax... maybe smell the roses. Listen to the birds, if you have time.

[Hellion Rex]

You and I both know diversity with "each other" will never work. It never has.

Then you are willfully blind.

[raging_monkey]

That's what I thought.

oh now I'm curious * leans inquisitivly while hoping his vainity to be flaunted and praised* what is it you think of a moderate man you seeks to improve his people's station merely through love and tolerance.

Does it incense your views does it make smile creep merely due to a past idealism yet muddled by misery ,does it make you seek to win me over and use my charm to rally others. Or does it seek a compromise

Hehe my my you called out my actual personality oh your adorable

[The Elder King]

"Western civilization" isn't the entire world, in the past, present, or future, that's all I'm saying.

 

I wasn't trying to turn it into pure-anti Rome either but like, to be completely fair, they were just kinda.. societally, sorta kinda.. mean.

Nobody said it's the entire world, though it constitutes a good part of it, both now, in the past, and for (who know how long) future, and Rome had an influence on it. 

[Mistic]

My point wasn't really about degree of absorption or spitting out vis a vis the other places so much as just the fact the tenor of Rome was just like generic conquest and dominion. They spent literally like 250 years doing nothing but churning through Iberia or whatever.

 

So much for the "thinking," they were at war like all the time, everywhere, at least after the demise of the republic.

 

It wasn't this excessively malicious conquest (mostly?), I guess, sure, but they treated that sort of thing as a "norm" which is kinda bizzare in the grand sense of things.

 

Indeed, it might seem that Rome was always at war. As a very bureaucratic society, it was expected of noble families to pursue a military career. Of course, more victories meant more honors for the officials. Also, although at first the army was composed of minor landlords, growing social differences and the Marian reforms pushed the lower classes to find a way of living in the army.

 

On the other hand, that's not very different from any other imperialistic power in known history. Compared to the Assyrians, for example, the Romans look tame. Spain and the United Kingdom didn't carve their colonial empires by being nice neighbours. Neither did Russia in the east, and last time I checked Mexico didn't give all those territories to USA as a present.

 

Also, an important explanation here: despite common misconceptions, the vast majority of Roman conquests were done under the Republic, not the Empire. Apart from England and Dacia, and some frontier territories, most wars during the empire were civil or defensive wars.

 

I mean heck, everyone ultimately rebelled anyway, so that assimilation wasn't even an assimiliation, except for Gauls and Romans making France I guess.

 

On the contrary, the assimilation was so good that the regions didn't get separated because of rebellion, but invasion. Despite this, several of the barbarian invaders mimicked Roman customs and laws. Charlemagne himself was crowned as Emperor of the Romans, from which the idea of "Holy Roman Empire" was born. In a lot of countries with heavy Roman influence, their people still speak languages which evolved from Latin. The Roman Empire institution itself still survived for centuries until Constantinople fell in 1453. And most Christian denominations still follow the rules of the first Christian ecumenical councils sponsored (and controlled) by the Roman Emperors.

 

The influence of Rome, for good of ill, is still felt today. The history of the world would be much different without them. Would it be better or worse? Who knows. But this is the world we live in.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

Then you are willfully blind.

How am I blind?

[raging_monkey]

I really don't want a conversation. I just wish you'd relax... maybe smell the roses. Listen to the birds, if you have time.

jerking off helps too lol

[Seraphim24]

Can you give me some example of empires, then? 

 

Here is the Canadian empire, eclipsing Rome in size I believe.

 

 

[Hellion Rex]

But what happened to the Native Americans who were here first? Why they stuck on reservations? Why they have forgotten their language, their culture, their heratige?

Ummm, pretty sure that they have forgotten nothing. Someone correct if I'm wrong, but I don't believe they've forgotten their language, culture, or heritage. It's just they've been more or less confined to these reservations dubbed to be their land, when technically all of America is theirs.

[raging_monkey]

Perhaps we should break before we he locked them earnings are issued pm sev if you want this to continue.

Sev ease up with the views we have all derailed enough

[The Elder King]

Here is the Canadian empire, eclipsing Rome in size I believe.

 

 

Eh, you have to consider the historical situation. The known world at the times of the Romans were much smaller .

[Hellion Rex]

How am I blind?

You claimed diversity never works, when the past 40-50 years of American History have proven otherwise. We're not out of the woods yet, but I'll be damned if things are not miles better now than they were when my parents were children. 

[Heimdall]

"Western civilization" isn't the entire world, in the past, present, or future, that's all I'm saying.

 

I wasn't trying to turn it into pure-anti Rome either but like, to be completely fair, they were just kinda.. societally, sorta kinda.. mean.

I was never trying to say it was?    Though western civilization has been influential on a global scale,

 

And I'm just saying that the aspects you identify as "mean" were far from the sum total of Roman civilization.

[Seraphim24]

On the contrary, the assimilation was so good that the regions didn't get separated because of rebellion, but invasion. Despite this, several of the barbarian invaders mimicked Roman customs and laws. Charlemagne himself was crowned as Emperor of the Romans, from which the idea of "Holy Roman Empire" was born. In a lot of countries with heavy Roman influence, their people still speak languages which evolved from Latin. The Roman Empire institution itself still survived for centuries until Constantinople fell in 1453. And most Christian denominations still follow the rules of the first Christian ecumenical councils sponsored (and controlled) by the Roman Emperors.

 

The influence of Rome, for good of ill, is still felt today. The history of the world would be much different without them. Would it be better or worse? Who knows. But this is the world we live in.

 

Rome was a cultural backwater putzing around with conflict, as you say, most of their wars were fought during the era of the Republic. As in this generic pretty much just sort of rip off thing, tons of violence.

 

 As far as I know, I think I stated this somewhere else here, but then someone disagreed or something but what we associate primarily with the "Roman Empire" was spawned in the aftermath of dynastic Egypt and the conflict with Antony/Octavian etc. Minus Egypt, it's just a bunch of guys in a bath house in Italy.

 

Before you get all "Egypt has it's own problems" or whatever that's not what I'm saying, this isn't Egypt greater or lesser or whatever, I'm just saying the world is bigger than a single strip of land there and what they think is influencing everything.

 

So you say Monarchial Charlemagne or Julian or Justinian, and I say, dynasty, i.e. Egypt, not Rome the ripoff.

[Seraphim24]

I was never trying to say it was?    Though western civilization has been influential on a global scale,

 

And I'm just saying that the aspects you identify as "mean" were far from the sum total of Roman civilization.

 

I never said there wasn't more to the picture.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

oh now I'm curious * leans inquisitivly while hoping his vainity to be flaunted and praised* what is it you think of a moderate man you seeks to improve his people's station merely through love and tolerance.

Does it incense your views does it make smile creep merely due to a past idealism yet muddled by misery ,does it make you seek to win me over and use my charm to rally others. Or does it seek a compromise

Hehe my my you called out my actual personality oh your adorable

I don't compromise, bargain, love, or sleep with an enemy who's done harm to my ancestors and my people. I only want one thing from them is to leave us alone or it will be a reckoning.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

You claimed diversity never works, when the past 40-50 years of American History have proven otherwise. We're not out of the woods yet, but I'll be damned if things are not miles better now than they were when my parents were children.

I meant that it won't benefit the oppressed in the U.S. especially "us with them" because we never reap the benefits from it

[The Elder King]

Rome was a cultural backwater putzing around, as far as I know, I think I stated this somewhere else here, but then someone disagreed or something but what we associate primarily with the "Roman Empire" was spawned in the aftermath of dynastic Egypt and the conflict with Antony/Octavian etc. Minus Egypt, it's just a bunch of guys in a bath house in Italy.

 

Before you get all "Egypt has it's own problems" or whatever that's not what I'm saying, this isn't Egypt greater or lesser or whatever, I'm just saying the world is bigger than a single strip of land there and what they think is influencing everything.

Rome wasn't a cultural backwater when they conquered Egypt, and it was already the strongest military and naval power for a while before that. They might've likely have conquered Egypt before if it wasn't plagued by civil wars.

[Heimdall]

Rome was a cultural backwater putzing around with conflict, as you say, most of their wars were fought during the era of the Republic. As in this generic pretty much just sort of rip off thing.

 

 As far as I know, I think I stated this somewhere else here, but then someone disagreed or something but what we associate primarily with the "Roman Empire" was spawned in the aftermath of dynastic Egypt and the conflict with Antony/Octavian etc. Minus Egypt, it's just a bunch of guys in a bath house in Italy.

 

Before you get all "Egypt has it's own problems" or whatever that's not what I'm saying, this isn't Egypt greater or lesser or whatever, I'm just saying the world is bigger than a single strip of land there and what they think is influencing everything.

 

So you say Monarchial Charlemagne or Julian or Justinian, and I say, dynasty, i.e. Egypt, not Rome the ripoff.

...You think Egypt invented the concept of an imperial dynasty?

[Seraphim24]

...You think Egypt invented the concept of an imperial dynasty?

 

Did I say that?

 

I said what was born as the "Roman Empire" was the consequence of hyper-centralization following the events with Octavian/Antony etc, straight out of the wikipedia, or whatever.

 

I said nothing about the origins of Dynasty, in general, your comment implying you had something in mind I guess.

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

how did the chantry fans won the war though? i mean, dalish fans got screwed on the reveal of the true nature of the elven gods and arlathan (TME already glimpsed on this), but their faith turns out to be somehow true. The Andrastian faith is revealed to be at least wrong in a major aspect (the fade creation).

 

The Fade being created by Solas wasn't learned until Trespasser. I believe they were referring to the vanilla game. 

 

The situation is a bit different for me. A 'Maker' can exist, and maybe he is the one mentioned by Andraste, just something he supposedly did was done by someone else (Fade). Or he exists/doesn't exist but what the Andrastian faith believes he's the Maker is something else (Fen'harel, maybe) Both theories can be right. The fact that Solas believes there's the chance there's a 'Maker's doesn't mean he's the same being humans worship and credits for many achievements.

 

I'll agree. I just don't think it's Solas. As for the Fade, a lot of that is the Chant. I think it'd help to examine how even that came about first. Maybe she never said some of it.

 

Veil, guys. Not the Fade. The Fade predates Solas (as far as we know). The Maker is credited with creating both, I think. Though, I'm honestly not sure if the chant that we have available ever actually states the Maker made the Veil, or if it just has a verse where the Veil suddenly exists in-context and we've all just been assuming that meant the Maker made it.

 

 

But what happened to the Native Americans who were here first? Why they stuck on reservations? Why they have forgotten their language, their culture, their heratige?

 

Ummm, pretty sure that they have forgotten nothing. Someone correct if I'm wrong, but I don't believe they've forgotten their language, culture, or heritage. It's just they've been more or less confined to these reservations dubbed to be their land, when technically all of America is theirs.

Unless I'm missing something, I don't believe native americans are actually confined anywhere? The reservations exist and are legally the territory of w/e tribe they're territory of by treaty, but native americans are also considered american citizens and can live anywhere from Orlando to Honolulu if they like.

[Heimdall]

Did I say that?

Yes

So you say Monarchial Charlemagne or Julian or Justinian, and I say, dynasty, i.e. Egypt, not Rome the ripoff.

[Seraphim24]

Yes

 

Egypt definitely predated Justinian, Charlemagne, and Julian, I'm saying what people associate with the legacy of "Rome" is really the combined legacy of several places at once, that's all I'm saying. Heck it predated every single Roman "emperor.:

 

Nero Caligula Augustus, Theodosius, Romulus, Constantine, all of them, Byzantine as well."

 

It's simply that as a concept it was historically associated much more with Egypt (and frankly, other places entirely in some form or another) than Europe, but in this case happens to matter because geographically they are close to each other and well had that whole story.

[The Elder King]

Did I say that?

 

I said what was born as the "Roman Empire" was the consequence of hyper-centralization following the events with Octavian/Antony etc, straight out of the wikipedia, or whatever.

 

I said nothing about the origins of Dynasty, in general, your comment implying you had something in mind I guess.

There wasn't really much difference at first, and their expansion, as someone else already said, was mostly done in the republic period. It wasn't even called empire at first, as well as the ruler wasn't called emperor, since romans loathed kings and emperors.