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[The Ascendant]

I think the Qunari used to be Kossith that were experimented on by Tevinters using Dragon blood to make a race of slaves. The Dragon blood was too effective however, greatly enhancing their physiology and altering it so radically that they became a completely separate race. And since we know that Dragon blood is magical this would explain why they have mages, yet no presence in the Fade. This would explain why we see what appears to be Qunari in ancient Tevinter artefacts, before the modern Qunari even came into contact with the rest of Thedas.

[raging_monkey]

Didn't wot say a skirmish occured with the ox before they landed on the mainland. But them being vint born seems a far fetch

[Andromelek]

Didn't wot say a skirmish occured with the ox before they landed on the mainland. But them being vint born seems a far fetch

I think there are also records of Ogres prior to the Qunari's arrival.

[Heimdall]

I think there are also records of Ogres prior to the Qunari's arrival.

WoT explained that a colony of Kossith arrived by sea in the Kocari wilds to explain that.

There's evidence in one of the mosaics that portrays horned men as slaves in a depiction that's apparently a lot older than the Qunari arrival. That's the best evidence I can recall for the idea that the qunari began as a Tevinter experiment, aside from Corypheus calling them a mistake.

[raging_monkey]

Then how did their myths evolve as such ... Hmm

[Heimdall]

Then how did their myths evolve as such ... Hmm

This would have happened over a thousand years ago.  Maybe there weren't so many to begin with, they were deemed mistakes due to hyperaggression but they were exiled or escaped.  They traveled north, made an impression on the locals, who evidently had statues of horned deities long before the Qunari arrived.  They became the Kossith somewhere far to the north.  The Qun came into existence to combat their aggression, then came south again.

[straykat]

Bah. Everything with the Qunari just makes me more confused.

 

I'd rather they just disappear. And then Thedas suddenly had halflings or something. edit: And no romances with those, for the Maker's sake.

[Hellion Rex]

No! I will have my hot muscley horned men!!!

[raging_monkey]

No! I will have my hot muscley horned men!!!

and women! I need my horned beauties

[straykat]

Sigh.. well, I can't get in the way of your dreams.

[Andromelek]

I want another Witch of the Wilds, not a Qunari , well if we have a Qunari, it better is a Grey Warden, I'm tired of troll logic that usually ends with my party being overrun by hostile Oxen.

[Sifr]

WoT explained that a colony of Kossith arrived by sea in the Kocari wilds to explain that.

There's evidence in one of the mosaics that portrays horned men as slaves in a depiction that's apparently a lot older than the Qunari arrival. That's the best evidence I can recall for the idea that the qunari began as a Tevinter experiment, aside from Corypheus calling them a mistake.

 

Unless the first Ogres were hornless, the Kossith probably already had horns when they settled in the Korcari Wilds in -410 Ancient, before being wiped out by Darkspawn during the first Blight. Actually makes me wonder whether it's a coincidence or maybe the Kossith influenced the local culture, since we do see horned helms being worn by important figures in both Avvar and Chasind tribes.

 

Another bit of interest is that one of the mosaic tiles in Skyhold depicts Qunari slaves;

 

Spoiler

"I think this one is called "Freed are Slaves" which is exactly the kind of "saying words but meaning different things" I expect from a Tevinter. There's lies in the carving, too, but I'll come back to that.

 

Subject aside, I like this. It's workmanlike, but in a good dwarven way. It repeats because the carver knows what she's good at, so she does it again and again. Makes me think she has more than a passing knowledge of the Stone.

 

That said, there's two sets of hands involved, one old, one new. Take this magister. He's glowing because he's fresh. Newer. Same with his trophies flanking him. Carved down from more complex figures. And the flat next to him - seems plan doesn't it? The bottom is filled with detail, but this is left an open field? No, that's just what it is now, but there's shadows for a clever eye. So, what was here if not this handsome magister wanting his cod stuffed? Someone else instead of him and his friends, and two more figures on each side. Seven total.

 

Only the top was changed. The Qunari haven't been touched; that's old wear down there. When it was first down and hundreds of years later, yoked Qunari prisoners still fit. I don't suppose it's for the same reasons.

 

I can only say the what, not the why. I can guess that someone wanted to be a Tevinter hero and paid to have their face carved on an antiquity. I mean that's a crime against the ancestors where I'm from, but I don't expect Tevinters to obey dwarven honour. Or their own, really. They've been at war for a long time, so I understand wanting to seem big. Orzammar's the same with the darkspawn, unfortunately.

 

Still, shame to lose the orignal. Not for the seven, for the carver. Good work, this."

 

What's interesting is that it comments on the piece having been touched up over the centuries, something seems incongruous given that dwarven craftmanship elsewhere seems to be built to last and that it's only been 300 years since the Qunari "officially" first appeared in Thedas.

 

Even assuming that the carving is only 300 years old and from the Steel Age, it seems odd for someone to want to commission a carving to depict the Magisters Sidereal, as Dorian implies that anything associated with them had long since become taboo. With the Imperial Chantry having been around for centuries by that time, with Andrastian Faith around even longer, I don't know why someone would want the High Priests of the Old Gods on their wall. Especially since they were the ones who supposedly caused the Blights, which had left the Imperium a shadow of it's former glory ever since.

 

This would therefore mean that the mosaic is far older than the date of supposed first contact with the Qunari, an idea that seems to be backed up with Corypheus' comments and lack of confusion regarding them, suggesting that the race was known in his time.

[raging_monkey]

Sigh.. well, I can't get in the way of your dreams.

yes can. Keeps is dreamers grounded

[Mistic]

This would therefore mean that the mosaic is far older than the date of supposed first contact with the Qunari, an idea that seems to be backed up with Corypheus' comments and lack of confusion regarding them, suggesting that the race was known in his time.

 

Yeah, I got a similar impression. That the Tevinters of old knew of Qunari, and that's where the original mosaic came from, but centuries later that knowledge was forgotten and, when the Qunari reappeared, someone found the mosaic and found it cool enough to reuse it.

 

But then the question is: why did they forget? What happened? Was the existence of Qunari in the old times common knowledge or was it one of those secret things only higher-ups like the Seven High Priests knew?

[straykat]

I'd like to think they were some freak experiment, controlled by the Tevinter. Like those beastly dudes controlled by the Dominion in DS9. And instead of drugs, the Qun was just brainwashing to keep them in line.

[Heimdall]

Yeah, I got a similar impression. That the Tevinters of old knew of Qunari, and that's where the original mosaic came from, but centuries later that knowledge was forgotten and, when the Qunari reappeared, someone found the mosaic and found it cool enough to reuse it.

But then the question is: why did they forget? What happened? Was the existence of Qunari in the old times common knowledge or was it one of those secret things only higher-ups like the Seven High Priests knew?

It seems like something that would have been made secret, or maybe after whatever caused them to leave the Imperium they were wiped from the records.

[Mistic]

And instead of drugs, the Qun was just brainwashing to keep them in line.

 

The Qun being part of a Tevinter experiment seems strange. It doesn't match the tales about Ashkaari Koslun and I don't see old Tevinters inventing a new language so their new slaves can have a different culture (if anything, what they did to the elves proves they don't like slaves having a distinct culture at all). WoT also mentions that when the Qun became law among the kossith, their former temples and priests were outlawed, which suggests a great deal of independence when the new religion appeared.

 

(Not that I wouldn't mind the twist; the idea of Qunari discovering that their belief system is a Tevinter fabrication would be as ironic as Tevinter creating their own worst enemy).

[straykat]

The Qun being part of a Tevinter experiment seems strange. It doesn't match the tales about Ashkaari Koslun and I don't see old Tevinters inventing a new language so their new slaves can have a different culture (if anything, what they did to the elves proves they don't like slaves having a distinct culture at all). WoT also mentions that when the Qun became law among the kossith, their former temples and priests were outlawed, which suggests a great deal of independence when the new religion appeared.

 

(Not that I wouldn't mind the twist; the idea of Qunari discovering that their belief system is a Tevinter fabrication would be as ironic as Tevinter creating their own worst enemy).

 

I'm  half kidding. It's only more of a wish.. It'd amuse me if they were like the Dominion.

 

But yeah, the irony would be unfortunate for Tevinter too..

[raging_monkey]

I'm half kidding. It's only more of a wish.. It'd amuse me if they were like the Dominion.

But yeah, the irony would be unfortunate for Tevinter too..

But real imo. It would mirror some nations creating their foes..

[Hellion Rex]

Yeah, I got a similar impression. That the Tevinters of old knew of Qunari, and that's where the original mosaic came from, but centuries later that knowledge was forgotten and, when the Qunari reappeared, someone found the mosaic and found it cool enough to reuse it.

But then the question is: why did they forget? What happened? Was the existence of Qunari in the old times common knowledge or was it one of those secret things only higher-ups like the Seven High Priests knew?

Well, it could possibly be like the Titans, where the Dwarves wrote them out of the Memories. And on top of that, the magisters of old could use blood magic quite freely to aid in causing people to forget. Also, it's possible that only some members of the Magisterium (and the priesthood, in Corypheus's case) knew what was going on, further restricting those who knew.

[Heimdall]

Well, it could possibly be like the Titans, where the Dwarves wrote them out of the Memories. And on top of that, the magisters of old could use blood magic quite freely to aid in causing people to forget. Also, it's possible that only some members of the Magisterium (and the priesthood, in Corypheus's case) knew what was going on, further restricting those who knew.

I doubt that kind of mass forgetfulness could really be achieved if the Kossith were common knowledge. Rather, I think they were probably relatively few in number at the time and maybe local to a specific area where the experiments were carried out.

[Sifr]

The Kossith (and later on, the Qunari) seem to be extremely talented navigators and sailors, so it's not inconceivable that a couple vessels might have been landed on the shores of various places in Thedas during antiquity. The Vints being aware of them makes sense as they were the most widespread nation at the time, while the Wardens likely encountered them because they performed some degree of aerial exploration via Griffons.

 

Putting them on the edges of the map and awareness of them being mere rumour, would be consistent with the lore that when they showed up as the Qunari in the Steel Age, people treated it as a first contact situation.

[raging_monkey]

I but too

[Mistic]

The Kossith (and later on, the Qunari) seem to be extremely talented navigators and sailors, so it's not inconceivable that a couple vessels might have been landed on the shores of various places in Thedas during antiquity. The Vints being aware of them makes sense as they were the most widespread nation at the time, while the Wardens likely encountered them because they performed some degree of aerial exploration via Griffons.

 

Putting them on the edges of the map and awareness of them being mere rumour, would be consistent with the lore that when they showed up as the Qunari in the Steel Age, people treated it as a first contact situation.

 

True, maybe Tevinter enslaved some of them in the past when they arrived to their shores? That would be a simple enough solution to the puzzle. However, why did Corypheus called them a "mistake"? He also mentioned something about "decay" in their blood (it could match Iron Bull's suspicion that there's some dragon blood in them).

 

Maybe Tevinter did experiments with the captured kossith? But that wouldn't explain how the rest of their race had the same traits... unless the Tamassrans made those traits dominant with the passing of time.

 

By the way, I found some interesting bit of information that Mary Kirby wrote about Koslun several years ago:

 

He is generally believed to be one of those tall guys with horns, but it's been a really, really long time. For all we know, he was an extremely chatty, argumentative, elderberry bush. The Qun does not waste a lot of time describing his appearance.

 

That lack of detail is suspicious. Very suspicious. Maybe the idea a Tevinter invented the Qun isn't so far-fetched after all.

[Gervaise]

It is odd that Koslun is meant to have travelled the world studying different forms of government and then came up with his own, yet no one outside of the Qun has ever heard of him.     If he was some isolated horned guy, you think someone would have noticed as he crossed Thedas, so either he was travelling some different continent or he didn't look like modern qunari.  

 

The Kossith were present in the Korcari wilds in -410 ancient, which was some15 years before the Magisters allegedly entered the Golden City, so it is quite possible that some of them were captured by Tevinter slavers and taken north, which would account for them appearing in a mosaic with the original group.      As this group are definitely described as Kossith, it would seem their arrival was before they adopted the qunari faith.     Is it possible that Koslun was among them and this group accompanied him on his exploration of the known world?    Then either he fled back home when the Blight struck or he had already departed before then, leaving behind his companions as a settlement with which the homeland could keep in touch and use as a base for conquest.     When contact was lost, the people back in the homeland lost interest in that part of the world or may be decided that the next time they sailed forth, they should aim for somewhere further north.

 

I just thought, if Koslun had visited Thedas with those Kossith and some were captured by Tevinter, then he would know that the biggest threat lay in the north with the magical rulers and that is why the Qun set up there when they first arrived.