15945 réponses à ce sujet

[straykat]

God of Slavery/Chains is pretty much announcing that they're douchebags. But the Chantry helps.

[Hellion Rex]

God of Slavery/Chains is pretty much announcing that they're douchebags. But the Chantry helps.

He was also known as the Old God of Freedom, as well as God of Unity, so it's not always bad.

 

I would imagine that during the ancient days, each of the Gods had both positive and negative aspects that people chose to venerate.

 

At this stage, I have a neutral attitude towards them, seeing them as neither good nor bad, cause I feel like we still lack a crap ton of information about them to make an informed decision. That said, I still find them utterly fascinating.

[straykat]

He was also known as the Old God of Freedom, as well as God of Unity, so it's not always bad.

 

I would imagine that during the ancient days, each of the Gods had both positive and negative aspects that people chose to venerate.

 

At this stage, I have a neutral attitude towards them, seeing them as neither good nor bad, cause I feel like we still lack a crap ton of information about them to make an informed decision. That said, I still find them utterly fascinating.

 

I haven't heard the Freedom one, but if that's true, then he truly is the Father of Qunari. That's some mighty troll logic.

[Hellion Rex]

Also found this depiction of Andoral being slain by Garahel (is from WoT2?) that I had never seen before.

 

[Hellion Rex]

I haven't heard the Freedom one, but if that's true, then he truly is the Father of Qunari. That's some mighty troll logic.

It was maybe in WoT 1? Don't quote me on that one though. I definitively remember seeing it somewhere though, cause I was struck by how I didn't realize Andoral governed both slavery as well as Freedom.

[straykat]

Yeah, Garahel is wonderfully paired. The alienage elf vs the "dragon of chains".

[straykat]

It was maybe in WoT 1? Don't quote me on that one though. I definitively remember seeing it somewhere though, cause I was struck by how I didn't realize Andoral governed both slavery as well as Freedom.

 

I don't know if they're trying to be clever or something, but that pisses me off. You can't be both. Slavery and Freedom aren't quantum mechanics.

[Hellion Rex]

HOLD UP. HOLD EVERYTHING. I GOT IT WRONG. I just did a quick search on the Old Gods.

 

It wasn't Andoral that was the God of Freedom. It was Zazikel, Dragon of Chaos, aka Archdemon #2. It is interesting that Zaz would hold the title of God of Freedom though.

[straykat]

haha... well that makes a bit more sense.

 

Chaos is way more open to interpretation. And wouldn't call it evil... but I can see how it can be perceived that way.

 

Like I would call jack in mass effect a "chaotic neutral" character, but many think she's evil. I think Morinth is the actual chaotic evil one though.

[Qun00]

God of Slavery/Chains is pretty much announcing that they're douchebags. But the Chantry helps.

I would concern myself less with their titles and more with the fact that the two available versions of the Old Gods lore state that they demanded blood sacrifices.

[straykat]

I would concern myself less with their titles and more with the fact that the two available versions of their lore state that they demanded blood sacrifices.

 

Yeah, that also says enough.

 

And just one glance at Corypheus and you know you have a "vilain" before you. And he's Dumat's high priest/conductor. I don't think it says anything good about his god.

[Hellion Rex]

I would concern myself less with their titles and more with the fact that the two available versions of the Old Gods lore state that they demanded blood sacrifices.

Are we 100% sure that the Old Gods really asked for it? Or was it simply something that the Tevinters liked to do and so chose to incorporate it into their religion? 

[Qun00]

They were granted magical boons in return.

[raging_monkey]

Near immortality a boon indeed possibly offset by amnesia... I need this( runs to table top)

[raging_monkey]

Adding to the God of chains it's possible that each was diffent personality wise (if they existed)

[Heimdall]

haha... well that makes a bit more sense.

Chaos is way more open to interpretation. And wouldn't call it evil... but I can see how it can be perceived that way.

Like I would call jack in mass effect a "chaotic neutral" character, but many think she's evil. I think Morinth is the actual chaotic evil one though.

I think Andoral is also the God of Unity, for what that's worth.

So maybe we could see Andoral more as a God of obligations and loyalty? If we were to be charitable...

[Gervaise]

I'm not sure if there is an independent source from the Chant, but certainly Threnodies states that the old gods required their worshipers both to renounce the Maker and make burned offerings of oxen and horses to gain their assistance.   This would appear to be before the old gods taught the priests the secrets of blood magic, so it would seem that human/elven sacrifice only came later.    Other scholars suggest that the knowledge of blood magic didn't come from the old gods at all but from the elves, so who can say if the old gods were responsible.   Given how everything else seems to get turned on its head the more we know, it might well be we discover they didn't demand blood sacrifice and this was something the Neromenians came up with on their own.

 

It is interesting that if you look at their titles the old gods were all associated with positive aspects of life.    Dumat: Silence (which can give a great sense of peace); Zazikal: Freedom (although that can lead to chaos); Toth: Fire (can be both beneficial and destructive); Andoral: Unity (may be slavery was a later interpretation of this aspect): Urthemiel: Beauty; Razikale: Mysteries; Lusacan: Night.     None of these realms of influence are inherently evil.  

[straykat]

I'm not sure if there is an independent source from the Chant, but certainly Threnodies states that the old gods required their worshipers both to renounce the Maker and make burned offerings of oxen and horses to gain their assistance.   This would appear to be before the old gods taught the priests the secrets of blood magic, so it would seem that human/elven sacrifice only came later.    Other scholars suggest that the knowledge of blood magic didn't come from the old gods at all but from the elves, so who can say if the old gods were responsible.   Given how everything else seems to get turned on its head the more we know, it might well be we discover they didn't demand blood sacrifice and this was something the Neromenians came up with on their own.

 

It is interesting that if you look at their titles the old gods were all associated with positive aspects of life.    Dumat: Silence (which can give a great sense of peace); Zazikal: Freedom (although that can lead to chaos); Toth: Fire (can be both beneficial and destructive); Andoral: Unity (may be slavery was a later interpretation of this aspect): Urthemiel: Beauty; Razikale: Mysteries; Lusacan: Night.     None of these realms of influence are inherently evil.  

 

Even if Dumat was somehow positive, his high priest was pretty messed up right off the bat.

[straykat]

Oh wait, the other thing I think I should add is that radical moves would be desirable at this point, considering that both Solas and the Qunari are attracting people, in their respective ways. I'd rather beat both of them at their own game. Provide the kind of dignity they promise, but in a new way (via the Chantry and the South).

[Sifr]

Near immortality a boon indeed possibly offset by amnesia... I need this( runs to table top)

 

Depends what kind you get;

 

Wolverine: Where your perfect healing factor is only unable to restore memory-loss.

Beric Dondarrion: Where you retain injuries and lose a bit of yourself each time you come back.

The Nameless One: More scar tissue than skin and total memory wipe with each resurrection.

 

You might wish for one and end up with another, like when Xenon received immortality, but it didn't include eternal youth.

[Red of Rivia]

Olgierd von Everec...

[raging_monkey]

Depends what kind you get;

Wolverine: Where your perfect healing factor is only unable to restore memory-loss.
Beric Dondarrion: Where you retain injuries and lose a bit of yourself each time you come back.
The Nameless One: More scar tissue than skin and total memory wipe with each resurrection.

You might wish for one and end up with another, like when Xenon received immortality, but it didn't include eternal youth.

Oh crap forgot that * realized body has aged 3 centuries...*

Wait xenon is technically a lich! Does this mean we should have the option to have one as a spec?. The magic is there all we need is a general or exceptional reason.

[straykat]

Whatever Xenon is, I don't envy him. 

[Red of Rivia]

Whatever Xenon is, I don't envy him. 

e_e... are you sure? -n

[straykat]

e_e... are you sure? -n

 

Xenon... the Antiquarian. Right?

 

Yeah, living that long but as some immobile bag of bones.... Not worth it to me.