15959 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

Why would you ignore it?

I wouldn't. The game makes me.

[The Elder King]

I wouldn't. The game makes me.

Why does the game make you ignore it then?

[Xilizhra]

Why does the game make you ignore it then?

Basically, you get a whole bunch of elven lore and then have no option to react to it in an emotionally consistent manner. It's like another What Pride Had Wrought, except there's even less elf-specific dialogue, and bloody Dorian comes across as more historically excited by it.

[Gervaise]

Sometimes a first name can get passed down through a family, even those its original origin and meaning have been lost.    With the Trevelyan connection, it is possible that Dorian's family might have certain names that have become traditional even though their origins lie outside the Imperium.  Hence the name Halward that sounds as though its origins would lie in the Freemarches or Ferelden.  The family seat is in Qarinus and Dorian was also given a title in Vyrantium, which is much further south and on one of the main trade routes, so greater likelihood of contact with southern families, who may still have strong connections to the bloodlines of the ancient Imperium.    All that trouble with Archon Almadrius was because he chose a lowborn mage of Planasene blood as one of his apprentices and thus a potential heir.   However, when the Imperium was at its greatest, it spread down to the Waking Sea and there would have been leading families who would have been in charge of it.   Away from the capital it may have been easier to allow in the odd gifted mage to the family who wasn't pure Altus and the existence of the name Halward in the Pavus family, together with the known Trevelyan one, could be evidence of this.

 

Referring back a few pages to my speculations on slavery: Yes it is a distasteful subject but I think the writers have been rather shirking the issue of late.   The hints are there in earlier codices how slaves are regarded and used when it comes to sex but the whole issue of slavery was somewhat brushed under the carpet in DAI.    We weren't really allowed to challenge Dorian properly on the issue and he was given the last word on the subject.     To be honest I would rather be a slave who rebels against the system in the next game instead of some noble who tacitly supports the status quo.    I'm becoming rather tired of all the people who would fight against social injustice invariably ending up on the opposite side to me so I'm obliged to kill them or appear the bad guy.     This was largely the reason I let Calpernia go, even though I seriously doubted the integrity of anyone who would side with Corypheus.    It is also why I am so seriously p****d off with Solas.   All those speeches about freedom, all that build up in the Temple of Mythal concerning Fen'Harel likely being the champion of the oppressed.   Now instead of offering an alternative to all the oppressed people of Thedas, elf or not, to the false hope of the Qun, what does he want to do, destroy the world to bring back the world of the ancient elves, which was a world of tyrants and slaves.     I really want to throw his words to Dorian back in his face:  "If you are truly sorry about the past, then free the slaves of all races."   Now that is a cause I could support.

[The Elder King]

Basically, you get a whole bunch of elven lore and then have no option to react to it in an emotionally consistent manner. It's like another What Pride Had Wrought, except there's even less elf-specific dialogue, and bloody Dorian comes across as more historically excited by it.

Ah, understood, and fair enough. We should've had more reaction options, I agree.

[Iakus]

Even now in many cultures marriage of cousins is not counted as incest though. I think Rome had this culture, only immediate relatives were taboo.

House of Hapsburg

 

Didn't end well for them, though

[Lulupab]

House of Hapsburg

 

Didn't end well for them, though

 

I know about them, I think their fault was not ever letting a diverse gene pool mix with theirs. If none-immediate relatives keep getting married and have children for several generations in a row, on the long run its not different than immediate relative incest, which doesn't end well. Its all about diversity.

 

I suspect in Tevinter while cousins marry each other, they don't do it on every generation. This will keep the lines going.

[vertigomez]

Are there any sources on how big the elf population is in Tevinter compared to, say, Orlais or Ferelden? All I know is that Halamshiral is or....... was the only settlement where elves outnumber humans. But I figure with all the, ya know, history and slavery there are a crapton of elves in Tevinter.

And I imagine there are great numbers of qunari (as in, slaves or Tal-Vashoth) concentrated up north than would be found down south. Especially on Seheron. I could be wrong about all that, though.

[Yermogi]

Genetically speaking, it's actually a very low chance that if you marry your first cousin, your children will have genetic defects. The problem occurs when your children then marry their first cousins, because each time that happens the chance of genetic defects doubles. So it would go from, say, a 2 percent chance to a 4 percent chance, and so on and so on. After a few generations, it becomes very risky.

 

Second cousins are actually diverse enough genetically that you're only related by a small margin, and therefore marrying one of them would be like marrying someone you just met on the street. Unless you come from a family that already has a lot of in-breeding, the risk is very small.

 

Of course, in modern society there's such a stigma against marrying any kind of relative that if you married even your fourth cousin once removed, people would cringe away. Not that I'm advocating marrying your first cousin (I know I wouldn't), just that doing so isn't very likely to create a drooling semi-human that so many people envision would happen from such a relationship. 

 

And in-family marriage was so common back in "ye olden days" because towns were a lot smaller then. Travel was a lot more difficult. Unless you had the means to move around, which most people didn't, your options were limited. Also, your cousins would be seen as being a safe bet since you already know their family and trust them; the parents would have felt secure knowing that their child would be treated well. And then there's the obvious "keeping the titles and the money in the family" for the wealthy.

[Hellion Rex]

Are there any sources on how big the elf population is in Tevinter compared to, say, Orlais or Ferelden? All I know is that Halamshiral is or....... was the only settlement where elves outnumber humans. But I figure with all the, ya know, history and slavery there are a crapton of elves in Tevinter.

And I imagine there are great numbers of qunari (as in, slaves or Tal-Vashoth) concentrated up north than would be found down south. Especially on Seheron. I could be wrong about all that, though.

I would certainly agree that Tevinter definitely has a lot more elves up there as well as a lot more qunari.

[Hellion Rex]

I wanna meet the Black Divine now. And I want to see Archon Radonis.

Ugh, can we skip Andromeda and go straight to DA4? Lol

[The Elder King]

I wanna meet the Black Divine now. And I want to see Archon Radonis.
Ugh, can we skip Andromeda and go straight to DA4? Lol

Eh, I'm quite interested in both .

[raging_monkey]

Not so as andromeda. Reboots vote me

[Gervaise]

Regarding the number of elves in Tevinter, at one time they had the majority of the elf population of Thedas and this also formed the majority of the slave class but since the Long March, it is stated that the slave population divides fairly equally between elves and humans, with only a small number of other races (we've already debated t length whether this may include dwarves or not).   I would imagine that qunari/Vashoth are only found among manual workers in chains because I doubt they would entrust an ox man with a weapon or walking around unencumbered.

 

Back in DAO it was stated that the largest city elf population in southern Thedas was the Val Royeaux alienage, numbering 10,000 elves.   So even if the elves in Halamshiral formerly did outnumber the humans, the figure couldn't have been as large as this.    This will now be miniscule, since Celene massacred or burned the majority of elves in Halamshiral in putting down their rebellion.  Minrathous is still meant to be the largest city in Thedas, so if their elf slave population is proportionate to the Val Royeaux alienage, then there must be 10,000+ elves in Minrathous alone.    Much depends on the overall population in Tevinter because the slaves would outnumber the citizens but the elves only comprise half that number.      Slaves would also be found out and about throughout the countryside, unlike city elves in the south who are confined pretty much to the city alienages and a few noble houses as personal servants.

 

I was trying to figure out populations on another post but really there doesn't seem much information given in terms of actual figures.    The game guide for DAO had the population of Denerim pre-Blight as 70,000, and the total population of the country was 1 million, so I suppose you just scale up from there.

[raging_monkey]

Makes you wonder if nations actually do consensus reports

[vertigomez]

I would certainly agree that Tevinter definitely has a lot more elves up there as well as a lot more qunari.

Moar qunari!

Regarding the number of elves in Tevinter, at one time they had the majority of the elf population of Thedas and this also formed the majority of the slave class but since the Long March, it is stated that the slave population divides fairly equally between elves and humans, with only a small number of other races (we've already debated t length whether this may include dwarves or not).   I would imagine that qunari/Vashoth are only found among manual workers in chains because I doubt they would entrust an ox man with a weapon or walking around unencumbered.
 
Back in DAO it was stated that the largest city elf population in southern Thedas was the Val Royeaux alienage, numbering 10,000 elves.   So even if the elves in Halamshiral formerly did outnumber the humans, the figure couldn't have been as large as this.    This will now be miniscule, since Celene massacred or burned the majority of elves in Halamshiral in putting down their rebellion.  Minrathous is still meant to be the largest city in Thedas, so if their elf slave population is proportionate to the Val Royeaux alienage, then there must be 10,000+ elves in Minrathous alone.    Much depends on the overall population in Tevinter because the slaves would outnumber the citizens but the elves only comprise half that number.      Slaves would also be found out and about throughout the countryside, unlike city elves in the south who are confined pretty much to the city alienages and a few noble houses as personal servants.
 
I was trying to figure out populations on another post but really there doesn't seem much information given in terms of actual figures.    The game guide for DAO had the population of Denerim pre-Blight as 70,000, and the total population of the country was 1 million, so I suppose you just scale up from there.

Oh wow, thank you! I... have nothing to add to that because I'm pretty useless (eheh.. heh.. heh), but that's good to know. >10,000 elves is a lot.

Makes you wonder if nations actually do consensus reports

I think they'd have to consider you a citizen, so... depends on where you are? Maybe they tally up (free) humans in Tevinter but wouldn't dream of including elves/qunari/human slaves. Who knows?

[raging_monkey]

True

[Fredward]

I've read the second volume of WoT recently and I've been wondering what the chances are of us seeing one of the Denerim elves. Maybe even as a companion cuz you just know we're gonna have a slave as a companion. In addition to Calpernia probably.

[vertigomez]

I've read the second volume of WoT recently and I've been wondering what the chances are of us seeing one of the Denerim elves. Maybe even as a companion cuz you just know we're gonna have a slave as a companion. In addition to Calpernia probably.

As long as it's not Marius.

That plot thread always bugged me, actually. Like, my CE would have flipped off the Wardens and infiltrated Tevinter to get people back, but it's just sort of... forgotten? Like, yeah those folks are SOL, such a shame! Let's never mention it again!

[Fredward]

As long as it's not Marius.

 

IKR? He was so many cliches packed into one man he was nearing the trope event horizon.

 

That plot thread always bugged me, actually. Like, my CE would have flipped off the Wardens and infiltrated Tevinter to get people back, but it's just sort of... forgotten? Like, yeah those folks are SOL, such a shame! Let's never mention it again!

 

Lily also gets a mention, as does Aeonar.

 

They mention a few things I'd like to see for, instance, the Grim Anatomy or its author and I definitely wanna see The Gift of Flesh on some magister's dining table.

[raging_monkey]

I'd want to see aeonor, it's like the 's version of Alcatraz or even a gulag

[Iakus]

I'd want to see aeonor, it's like the 's version of Alcatraz or even a gulag

I'd like to find out why it's been abandoned.

[vertigomez]

I'd like to find out why it's been abandoned.

....dementors?

[vertigomez]

Oh, it just occurred to me: it'd be hilarious if they pulled a TES and our PC woke up imprisoned at Aeonar shortly after ~something~ went down.

I don't know why I want this, but now I do. How many dangerous PO'd prisoners would be there? I liiiiike.

[raging_monkey]

Prisoner sounds like fun start especially for elves