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[raging_monkey]

Im indifferent to mk its entertaining and cheap but one time read. Anyway it should be the rogue version of templar while warriors get something else maybe a shared spec

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

I agree about the slave thing, her wanting the Archon to hear the voice of the slaves and talking about how a life sacrificed use to mean something (not that sacrifices are unnecessary) coupled with her sincere love of the Imperium and that Imperium's reliance on slaves makes me wonder whether she wants something as clear cut as the establishment of slavery. Buy maybe she says that in DAI, I'unno.

You mean the "abolishment of slavery" right? Just to make sure I understand.

[The Ascendant]

Anyone watch Game of Thrones? Daeneyres Targaryen faced similar problems when dealing with the slaver cities. Slavery is ingrained in their culture and history, trying to force extreme change in a short amount of time leads to disaster.

[Fredward]

You mean the "abolishment of slavery" right? Just to make sure I understand.

 

Oops, yeah. I think Tevinter already has slavery pretty well established.

[Gervaise]

I think that ideally Calpernia would like to abolish slavery.   World of Thedas 2 says that she wants to elevate the enslaved to be true citizens of the Imperium.   Being a slave doesn't really seem compatible with being a citizen, although I've never been entirely clear about what happens with someone like Krem's father who sells himself into slavery.   Liberati are certainly not automatically granted rights of citizenship and only have limited rights.    Tevinter is meant to be based on ancient Rome and there being a citizen carried many rights under the law with the ultimate right of appeal to the Emperor if you thought you had been treated unfairly.   Translate that sort of citizenship to Tevinter and it is clearly that wanting citizenship for slaves is a very big deal.    One of the key points is that Liberati cannot have any say in governance, whereas in theory any citizen, even a Soporati, could.      In practice, of course, that doesn't happen and the mages, particularly the Altus have got a stranglehold on the Magisterium and the top jobs.    Calpernia seems to value everyone according to their ability, not simply whether they are a mage or not, so she could get backing from among the Soporati providing they do not object to her ideas of elevating slaves to equal status with them under the law.     Currently there is the illusion of Tevinter as a meritocracy which keeps the Soporati placated with the thought that one of their family members might be a mage and thus elevate them.    I get the impression that Calpernia would despise this attitude as well, since the other family members had not earned their rise in status to Laetans.     She wants a true meritocracy for mage and non-mage.

 

The important thing is that Calpernia is said to see the worth of the people unseen by the powerful and remembers her own longing for dignity.   She always resented the fact that people vastly inferior to her in terms of true ability, nevertheless had the power of life and death over her.   Even before she came into her magic she was aware of her powerlessness in the face of the system and her fear actually increased when she realised she was a mage because she knew how the ruling class used slave mages.    It is noticeable that the thing that finally removed her fear of the Magister in the short story and challenge him directly was when he called her an "incaensor" or "dangerous substance".    That word had reminded her that to him she wasn't a person but a thing to be used.    It would also explain her absolute hatred of the Qun, not just because of how they treat mages but because of they way they also class people as useful things.    When they capture a foreign mage they feed them qamek because they still regard them as having a use without their magic and the Qunari hate wasting anything.   To them no one is an individual but simply an anonymous part of a whole to be used for the benefit of the system, which is pretty much how you could describe the status of a slave in Tevinter.    The big difference between the two systems was highlighted by Solas: "In Tevinter a slave can still dream of freedom, the Qun deny even that."       Calpernia has dreams for her fellow slaves that should have every noble in Thedas, not just Tevinter, quaking in their boots.

[vertigomez]

After reading that short story (thank you for the link ) I'm not even sure Calpernia wants to do away with slavery. She sounds like she just wants the opportunity for slaves to rise from that lowest of social classes to the highest, if they've got some kind of intrisic value or work hard enough. Like a meritocracy with a slave class as the bottom rung. The ones who don't merit greater worth, however you're measuring that, aren't mentioned and it sounds like she'd be fine with them staying slaves.
 
Add in her fascination with power for power's sake; and the line about "in the old days, the blood sacrifice bought something. it was worth something.", which indicates she's fine with the sacrifice of others' blood if its for a worthy enough cause/cool enough spell, and... yeah,I have so many more problems with her now. XD
 
(Her and Marius were cute, though. I ship it.)

That was one of my favorite lines, actually. So ominous. How far would one go to ensure the triumph of the Imperium? What price is too high to pay? Calpernia certainly believes that the underclass deserve dignity; but it's the kind of dignity that has the potential to see people walk willingly onto their own funeral pyres.

[Hellion Rex]

I don't think Calpernia will have any political influence though, aiding the Elder One is as big as scandal goes in Tevinter. The only support she would ever get would be from slaves.

Well, the Archon Radonis certainly had her on the list for Marius to kill in Magekiller. She won't have any sort of political power any time soon.

[Daerog]

That was one of my favorite lines, actually. So ominous. How far would one go to ensure the triumph of the Imperium? What price is too high to pay? Calpernia certainly believes that the underclass deserve dignity; but it's the kind of dignity that has the potential to see people walk willingly onto their own funeral pyres.

Pretty extreme sense of nationalism/patriotism.

[Gervaise]

With regard to Calpernia's attitude to blood magic, this isn't really made clear.   Dorian, Solas and others seem to draw the distinction between basic blood magic, using your own blood to fuel your spell, and that of an unwilling sacrifice or using it to control the minds of others.    So it could be just that she feels using your own or a willing volunteer is okay or alternatively it is specific to the result.     That would suggest she was okay with what Corypheus did because he was trying for some noble endeavour of reaching the Golden City, even though it cost the life of hundreds of slaves.   If that is the case, then it is the pettiness of the indiscriminate use of blood magic to further shallow political ambitions and ill treatment/death of the slave that results that she objects to rather than the blood magic itself.    In which case, if she does return, it will be interesting engaging her in a discussion of the matter so long as we are allowed to voice our objections to the idea and argue our case properly, rather than the lame way we were allowed to criticise slavery to Dorian and then have to listen to him expound on the matter and have the last word, without the opportunity of offering a rebuttal.

 

I am not entirely sure that she feels the "end justifies the means".   It was noticeable that when you alert her to what Corypheus was planning regarding the use of the Well, she is upset not just for herself but her followers as well.   "If he would misuse me, he would misuse them."    That seems to matter greatly to her, so I'm hoping she doesn't turn out to be a blood mage apologist who thinks it is okay to sacrifice hundreds of slaves so long as it saves Tevinter.    Mind you, that would make her a sort of warped mirror to Solas.    He is willing to sacrifice millions of lives to restore the world of the elves; she might be willing to do the same to stop him, not because she wouldn't want the return of Fade magic but because it would be a threat to the domination of the Imperium.   Another interesting thought, would she oppose the Evanuris or side with them?  (Assuming anyone is given that choice)

[The Baconer]

I'd like to see a second Transfiguration, with an even greater divergence occurring between the two Chantries. A kind of "Hessarianism" as opposed to the South's Andrastianism. 

[raging_monkey]

Id rather keep the status quo in tevinter. They are a meritcracy...technically people want to improve put some gloves on and work

[Daerog]

Id rather keep the status quo in tevinter. They are a meritcracy...technically people want to improve put some gloves on and work

Meritocracy? Not with the Altus in power.

It was a meritocracy under Hessarian after the Transfiguration, for both mundanes and mages.

It still could be a meritocracy, with limits only on mundanes, but the Altus are preventing that.

[Xilizhra]

Meritocracy? Not with the Altus in power.

It was a meritocracy under Hessarian after the Transfiguration, for both mundanes and mages.

It still could be a meritocracy, with limits only on mundanes, but the Altus are preventing that.

I'm pretty sure it wasn't, actually. We certainly heard nothing about the aristocracy as a whole being abolished.

[vertigomez]

Well, the Archon Radonis certainly had her on the list for Marius to kill in Magekiller. She won't have any sort of political power any time soon.

I always figured she'd take up a more Anders-y role. Someone who sees themselves as a revolutionary, not necessarily someone with any political clout, but who's involved in "underground" things. Only she has more charisma (the kind that Anders envied Hawke for) and isn't possessed. Meanwhile the Lucerni faction would take the slow and steady wins the race, political overhaul approach.

Pretty extreme sense of nationalism/patriotism.

Sounds about right for her. Scary, but awesome.

With regard to Calpernia's attitude to blood magic, this isn't really made clear. Dorian, Solas and others seem to draw the distinction between basic blood magic, using your own blood to fuel your spell, and that of an unwilling sacrifice or using it to control the minds of others. So it could be just that she feels using your own or a willing volunteer is okay or alternatively it is specific to the result. That would suggest she was okay with what Corypheus did because he was trying for some noble endeavour of reaching the Golden City, even though it cost the life of hundreds of slaves. If that is the case, then it is the pettiness of the indiscriminate use of blood magic to further shallow political ambitions and ill treatment/death of the slave that results that she objects to rather than the blood magic itself. In which case, if she does return, it will be interesting engaging her in a discussion of the matter so long as we are allowed to voice our objections to the idea and argue our case properly, rather than the lame way we were allowed to criticise slavery to Dorian and then have to listen to him expound on the matter and have the last word, without the opportunity of offering a rebuttal.

I am not entirely sure that she feels the "end justifies the means". It was noticeable that when you alert her to what Corypheus was planning regarding the use of the Well, she is upset not just for herself but her followers as well. "If he would misuse me, he would misuse them." That seems to matter greatly to her, so I'm hoping she doesn't turn out to be a blood mage apologist who thinks it is okay to sacrifice hundreds of slaves so long as it saves Tevinter. Mind you, that would make her a sort of warped mirror to Solas. He is willing to sacrifice millions of lives to restore the world of the elves; she might be willing to do the same to stop him, not because she wouldn't want the return of Fade magic but because it would be a threat to the domination of the Imperium. Another interesting thought, would she oppose the Evanuris or side with them? (Assuming anyone is given that choice)

I think it's interesting that the only time she appears disgusted with blood magic is when Anodatus uses his slaves to fuel his magic. She's not just angry that his slaves are being mistreated, she appears to take Halward's "blood magic is for the weak" stance - you know, before he changed his mind. It doesn't help that he thinks he's better than her because he's nobleborn, meanwhile he relies on blood magic while she barely has to lift a finger to defeat him.

I always thought her anger over Cory's plan was that he was after his own glory, instead of actually wanting to revitalize Tevinter for its own sake. Not so much that he mistreated his followers, but that he didn't use them for the right ends?

No idea about the Evunaris. I'd think she'd be opposed, but only 'cause they don't strike me as particularly human- or Tevinter-friendly.

[raging_monkey]

Meritocracy? Not with the Altus in power.

It was a meritocracy under Hessarian after the Transfiguration, for both mundanes and mages.

It still could be a meritocracy, with limits only on mundanes, but the Altus are preventing that.

its fine as it is

[Lulupab]

Slavery is not going anywhere while the Imperium is fighting the Qunari and not trading with any other nation on Thedas, not officially anyway. We know Tevinter has good relation with pirates. Slavery is pretty much the only thing keeping the economy of Tevinter from collapsing.

 

If slavery is going to go trade needs to be established with rest of Thedas and Qunari need to be dealt with.

[Walter Black]

Ok, looking back I admit I may have judged Calpernia too harshly; her character arc has more potential than I initially read, and she doesn't share that many traits with Maevaris other than a few surface elements. That said, while Cal would make an interesting ally and sub plot, i still don't think she will take a Mage Companion slot along with or instead of Mae. Here's why:

 

1. Like I said before, good Companion dynamic requires deliberate contrast. In this case, it involves showing which of the DA4 Mage Companions are pro-Tevinter status quo, pro-revolution, or neutral. You could argue that Maevaris is too cautious to be revolutionary, but I would argue that most Bioware Companions have a degree of malleability for the player to influence or way or the other in Personal Quests. I can see Mae becoming more idealistic or cynical depending on player choices, but I can't see Calpernia ever budging an inch. 

 

2. Let's take a look at Calpernia's background: a former slave who slowly moved up the ranks thanks to her magic, and wants to bring down the Tevinter establishment. Fair enough, but most of her life relates to Tevinter alone. We know that the Imperium takes slaves from all over Thedas; is it honestly out of the question that we could recruit a former mage slave who could also provide insight into other areas? One who may or may not have "went native"? A Rivani Seer, a Nevarran Mortalitassi, an Avaar shaman, etcetera? Yes, Calpernia could give us a look at Tevinter's underbelly, but most of the game will give any number of characters and quests that illuminate the Imperium. What about the rest of Thedas?

 

3. When considering our limited Mage slots, we have to consider the other races. Given Solas' plans, I highly doubt we won't get an Elven Mage, either an active foe or double agent. Seeing how just the Breach woke up a Titan, maybe it will send Valta to help stop Solas, further paving the way for possible Dwarven Mages. Also, with Qunari invading, I think it's about time we finally had a Tal-Vasoth Saarebas Companion.

[vertigomez]

Speaking of the Qunari, I'm beginning to think Tevinter just don't GAF... to their detriment.

his family was traditionally responsible for the upkeep of the great Juggernaut golems that stood, long silent, outside Minrathous’s gates. They even got a stipend from the city coffers for it. But Anodatus seemed to think the money was better spent on lavish parties, gambling, and dwarven-made trinkets.

Minrathous’s walls still had cracks from the last Qunari assault; the great Juggernaut golems Anodatus was meant to restore were silent;

[Xilizhra]

Ok, looking back I admit I may have judged Calpernia too harshly; her character arc has more potential than I initially read, and she doesn't share that many traits with Maevaris other than a few surface elements. That said, while Cal would make an interesting ally and sub plot, i still don't think she will take a Mage Companion slot along with or instead of Mae. Here's why:

 

1. Like I said before, good Companion dynamic requires deliberate contrast. In this case, it involves showing which of the DA4 Mage Companions are pro-Tevinter status quo, pro-revolution, or neutral. You could argue that Maevaris is too cautious to be revolutionary, but I would argue that most Bioware Companions have a degree of malleability for the player to influence or way or the other in Personal Quests. I can see Mae becoming more idealistic or cynical depending on player choices, but I can't see Calpernia ever budging an inch. 

 

2. Let's take a look at Calpernia's background: a former slave who slowly moved up the ranks thanks to her magic, and wants to bring down the Tevinter establishment. Fair enough, but most of her life relates to Tevinter alone. We know that the Imperium takes slaves from all over Thedas; is it honestly out of the question that we could recruit a former mage slave who could also provide insight into other areas? One who may or may not have "went native"? A Rivani Seer, a Nevarran Mortalitassi, an Avaar shaman, etcetera? Yes, Calpernia could give us a look at Tevinter's underbelly, but most of the game will give any number of characters and quests that illuminate the Imperium. What about the rest of Thedas?

 

3. When considering our limited Mage slots, we have to consider the other races. Given Solas' plans, I highly doubt we won't get an Elven Mage, either an active foe or double agent. Seeing how just the Breach woke up a Titan, maybe it will send Valta to help stop Solas, further paving the way for possible Dwarven Mages. Also, with Qunari invading, I think it's about time we finally had a Tal-Vasoth Saarebas Companion.

I think that Maevaris is enough of a politician that Calpernia would be a better fit as a companion.

[Walter Black]

I think that Maevaris is enough of a politician that Calpernia would be a better fit as a companion.

 

That didn't stop Cassandra, Vivienne, or Lelianna from going on the front lines.

 

Also, Dorian's Trespasser slide all but confirms he will return, so he will most likely be our Mage Advisor. Wouldn't it make more sense for Maevaris, since she has more experience in the political area you might ask? That's why it has to be Dorian, so he can finally get that much needed experience .  

[Fredward]

Speaking of the Qunari, I'm beginning to think Tevinter just don't GAF... to their detriment.

 

 

Seriously, I cringed at that and I'm not even Tevinter.

 

except in my soul

[Gervaise]

Those quotes about how Anodatus had failed in his duties I think reflects the general decline of Tevinter rather than not worrying about the Qunari.    The Imperium apparently seem to sink a huge amount of resources into the conflict over Seheron but at the expense of the maintenance of the capital.     Alexius was complaining how even the fabric of the Circle was falling apart and this was the place where they were meant to educate their future ruling class.     Tevinter has been in slow decline for decades, if not centuries but the Magisterium are apparently too wrapped up in their petty power play to notice it.    The epilogue slides at the end of Trespasser even seem to suggest that the Qunari launching all out attack on the mainland may not be enough to unify them and in any case they are probably too fractured a Magisterium to make a quick and decisive response.  

 

I fully anticipate that one of the key plot elements of the next game will be Qarinus, with us either breaking a Qunari siege of the place or helping organise a rescue of key figures, like Dorian and Maevaris, who are trapped there.   It was one of the first places on mainland Tevinter that fell under the Qunari last time round, being in a highly strategic location, and had to be liberated before Tevinter could successfully drive them out.  May be getting the resources and personnel together to restore the golems that guard the gates of Minrathous will be another quest.

[Xilizhra]

That didn't stop Cassandra, Vivienne, or Lelianna from going on the front lines.

 

Also, Dorian's Trespasser slide all but confirms he will return, so he will most likely be our Mage Advisor. Wouldn't it make more sense for Maevaris, since she has more experience in the political area you might ask? That's why it has to be Dorian, so he can finally get that much needed experience .  

Cassandra is nothing like a politician, Vivienne was a terrible companion, and Leliana very rarely went on the front lines. And no, it would make the most sense for both Dorian and Maevaris to be advisers.

[Heimdall]

I think that Maevaris is enough of a politician that Calpernia would be a better fit as a companion.

That's what I think will happen.

I can't see both as companions and I really doubt Calpernia could gather political influence or really have much to offer in an advisor role. The Venatori are severely reduced from conflict with the Inquisition and Radonis' campaign of assassination in Tevinter. Not to mention I was always under the impression that her authority over the Venatori (Particularly the aristocratic elements) largely came from Corypheus' favor. If she commands any remnant of the Venatori, it will be far from the halls of power.

So Calpernia seems more likely as a companion than an advisor.

[Walter Black]

Cassandra is nothing like a politician, Vivienne was a terrible companion, and Leliana very rarely went on the front lines. And no, it would make the most sense for both Dorian and Maevaris to be advisers.

 

I didn't want to call Cass, Viv, or Leiliana politicians so much as point out that their respective positions should have them in the back, leading their personal branches of the Inquisition. That they do (occasionally, in Leliana's case) accompany us is mostly Gameplay and Story Segregation for the player's benefit, to experience their arcs.

 

Still have to disagree on both Maevaris and Dorian being Advisors. Aren't two pro-reform Tevinter Mages providing the exact same function a bit redundant? How does that provide any contrast from a thematic or gameplay perspective?

 

I get it, you really want Capernia. While I don't dislike the character, she just never struck me as interesting as other possibilities.