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[straykat]

Wait what...? Is this what happens in Trespasser? A complete negation of the main game's choices? lol

 

I mean, I haven't played Trespasser.. I really couldn't care actually. But this is still pretty cheap, if true.

[nightscrawl]

^ That's not what Gervaise said, though. He stated that Briala, if you chose her to rule, only has a secure position because of the Inquisition. At the end of Trespasser, whether you decide to disband or merge with the Chantry, the Inquisition is fundamentally changed and doesn't have the same kind of power and influence it had previously. It is logical to assume that Briala's position is in danger because of that.
 
I don't look at it as a negation of the game's choice, rather showing that the solution the Inquisitor hacked together in order to resolve issues to fight Corypheus was always going to be temporary because of the players involved. Having the triad is untenable because all three people remain who want power. Having Briala rule behind the scenes is untenable because, let's face it, she is an elf with no real influence or standing. The strongest rulers are Celene if Gaspard and Briala have both been executed, or Gaspard if Celene has been assassinated and Briala is dead because all real opposition has been eliminated. After that, we just have to deal with the Inquisition's influence, or not, over the monarch, and how people react to that.
 
There are a ton of different outcomes in the epilogue.
 
I don't think ANY player should have expected a happy ending here. 
 
 

Most of all though, is I don't want to corruption and abuses of the ruling class against slaves and the lower orders whitewashed as they were in DAI.    You would think the Chevaliers were paragons of virtue from our dealings with them.    We were seeing them as the ruling class did, not the peasant population and certainly not the elves.

To be fair, the Inquisitor wasn't really in a position to see the Chavaliers in that light because of the events going on. The greatest exposure we have to them in the game is concerning the Orlesian civil war, primarily on the Exalted Plains battlefield, hardly the place or time to see them casually abusing the peasantry.

Also, Sera does rail about them a bit if you take the Champion spec, so there is some of that mentioned in the game.

For the most part, the Inquisitor was elevated above all that because of their position and the circumstances of the game.

[straykat]

I still don't get it. Probably because I haven't played.

 

But I get the impression now he's only assuming something. 

 

 

Personally, I wouldn't care, because I had Celene and Briala reconcile. But I think it's uncool to say "Oh it doesn't matter. That's a non-choice" if you chose Briala alone. Don't give the choice at all if it's that much of a waste of time.

[nightscrawl]

It's not uninformed assumption, and I think it is entirely reasonable that the events play out that way, given the circumstances.

 

Briala rules through Gaspard

 

Consider the mighty Empire of Orlais, where Gaspard has ascended to the golden throne.

His rule continues only so long as he bows to the will of Briala - the first elf to be granted titles and land.

 

Soon, new rights are granted to elves throughout the land. Plans are made to tear down alienage walls.

The emperor chafes under her command, but can do nothing - even as an alliance of nobles considers open rebellion.

 

    Inquisitor is an elf with LOW Court Approval

        They hesitate only because they fear the alliance between Briala and the elven Inquisitor.

        The icy reception awaiting the Inquisition at court is telling, however. It seems only a matter of time.

 

    Inquisitor is an elf with HIGH Court Approval

        They hesitate only because they fear the alliance between Briala and the elven Inquisitor.

        And perhaps also because they yet respect the Inquisition. For now, the Empire remains at peace.

 

    Inquisitor NOT an elf and has LOW Court Approval

        They hesitate only because they fear Briala's alliance with the Inquisition.

        Even so, many prefer that Orlais bow to no one - not even heroes. It is only a matter of time.

 

    Inquisitor NOT an elf and has HIGH Court Approval

        They hesitate only because their respect for the Inquisition remains strong.

        So the Empire remains locked within an uneasy peace--though it seems only a matter of time.

 

 

There are also variations for the Celene/Briala pairing. They're doing okay together, but a lot of the future depends on the relationship with the Inquisition. Again, regardless of whether the Inquisition is disbanded or folded into the Chantry, it is a different organization.

 

And yes, players should be allowed to make bad choices that lead to bad outcomes. That's all part of it.

[straykat]

It's not unreasonable. If you cancel out a choice (within a DLC, no less lol), then don't put in the first place. Just put in choices that matter.

 

And I don't just mean positive consequences. Positive or negative works. This isn't exactly negative though. It just sounds like nothing and resorting to "status quo" as you/he put it.

[The Ascendant]

I think it's safe to imagine that Elves in Tevinter have it worse than most places. No Dalish to help them. You have Qunari and Tevinters who use them both as soldiers, spies and fodder for the war. 

[Gervaise]

Yes I agree that I was making assumptions, based on the evidence given in the epilogue and I wasn't complaining about it because it just seemed logical.    I thought it was a stretch being able to blackmail Gaspard in the first place but I thought I'd give it a go to see what happened.    At the end of the main game it seemed pretty consistent with what we knew of Orlais that it was only the backing of the Inquisition that was keeping Briala in power.    When they make it clear you are either going to be neutered or disbanded, that is pretty much goodbye to everything you were trying to achieve by putting Briala in power because you have no longer got the clout to keep her there.   If the Inquisition had lasted a bit longer, say ten years or more, that might have been sufficient time for the changes to take hold and be accepted but two years was nothing.   As the entry says, plans were only being made to tear down alienage walls; it hadn't already happened.   Considering 3 out of 4 of the scenarios say it is "only a matter of time" before the nobles rebel, that is not a very promising outlook.   The only scenario that is more optimistic is the one where an elven Inquisitor has high court approval and has the respect of the Court.    Clearly if they are demanding you be cut down to size and placed under the Divine, you no longer have their respect, particularly when their representative declares you are no more than "a glorified mercenary band".  

 

If you haven't played Trespasser you really won't have a feel for how quickly the tide of opinion among the nobility has turned against you.   They may say one thing at the beginning but there are teeth behind the smiles.    When Leliana, whether Divine or not, tells you to jump ship and disband, really that is the signal that your glorious experiment at social change is not going to happen.     Disappointing but not unexpected as my Lavellan said to Solas back after Haven.

[straykat]

Yes I agree that I was making assumptions, based on the evidence given in the epilogue and I wasn't complaining about it because it just seemed logical.    I thought it was a stretch being able to blackmail Gaspard in the first place but I thought I'd give it a go to see what happened.    At the end of the main game it seemed pretty consistently with what we knew of Orlais that it was only the backing of the Inquisition that was keeping Briala in power.    When they make it clear you are either going to be neutered or disbanded, that is pretty much goodbye to everything you were trying to achieve by putting Briala in power because you have no longer got the clout to keep her there.   If the Inquisition had lasted a bit longer, say ten years or more, that might have been sufficient time for the changes to take hold and be accepted but two years was nothing.   As the entry says, plans were only being made to tear down alienage walls; it hadn't already happened.   Considering 3 our of 4 of the scenarios say it is "only a matter of time" before the nobles rebel, that is not a very promising outlook.   The only scenario that is more optimistic is the one where an elven Inquisitor has high court approval and has the respect of the Court.    Clearly if they are demanding you be cut down to size and placed under the Divine, you no longer have their respect, particularly when their representative declares you are no more than "a glorified mercenary band".  

 

If you haven't played Trespasser you really won't have a feel for how quickly the tide of opinion among the nobility has turned against you.   They may say one thing at the beginning but there are teeth behind the smiles.    When Leliana, whether Divine or not, tells you to jump ship and disband, really that is the signal that your glorious experiment at social change is not going to happen.     Disappointing but not unexpected as my Lavellan said to Solas back after Haven.

 

Fair enough. It still stinks though.. For the reasons I stated. May as well not put things like that in in the first place, if they are ruled out so easily.

[Gervaise]

There is nothing wrong with putting in an unlikely option for success if the reason it fails is flagged up and logical.   Where it is more annoying is a situation like in DAO, where the Dalish are given a boon by the monarch.   The epilogue hinted there are tensions between elves and humans, which was only to be expected, but it seemed like the main elven leader was keeping things under control.    Bearing in mind this was a gift of the monarch in reward for services rendered by the Warden (who may have sacrificed themselves to save Ferelden) and to a lesser extent the actual contribution of the Dalish as a whole to the war, you would think that the monarch would put a bit of effort into making sure it succeeded.    Then you just get a throwaway comment in DA2 from Alistair (you never even find out if Anora is on the throne) to Merrill (only if in your party at the time) that he is sorry it didn't work out.   And that is it.    You are left wondering  why didn't it work out?   What exactly happened and what did you King Alistair do to help?    However, it is left up in the air and never mentioned again.    You are just left to assume that history has repeated itself because the two races hate each other so much they can't be persuaded to live together peacefully.   A pretty depressing thought.  

[straykat]

There is nothing wrong with putting in an unlikely option for success if the reason it fails is flagged up and logical.   Where it is more annoying is a situation like in DAO, where the Dalish are given a boon by the monarch.   The epilogue hinted there are tensions between elves and humans, which was only to be expected, but it seemed like the main elven leader was keeping things under control.    Bearing in mind this was a gift of the monarch in reward for services rendered by the Warden (who may have sacrificed themselves to save Ferelden) and to a lesser extent the actual contribution of the Dalish as a whole to the war, you would think that the monarch would put a bit of effort into making sure it succeeded.    Then you just get a throwaway comment in DA2 from Alistair (you never even find out if Anora is on the throne) to Merrill (only if in your party at the time) that he is sorry it didn't work out.   And that is it.    You are left wondering  why didn't it work out?   What exactly happened and what did you King Alistair do to help?    However, it is left up in the air and never mentioned again.    You are just left to assume that history has repeated itself because the two races hate each other so much they can't be persuaded to live together peacefully.   A pretty depressing thought.  

 

The boon is cheap too, but I kind of give it a slide because they didn't realize if DAO would even be carried forward or not. It kind of reminds me of the first Star Wars in a way... like it works as a self-contained film.. but there was just enough room to say more, just in case..

[raging_monkey]

I think it'd be best to have low expectations on how much we'll be able to change or challenge the Imperium in DA4.

this

[raging_monkey]

Wait what...? Is this what happens in Trespasser? A complete negation of the main game's choices? lol

I mean, I haven't played Trespasser.. I really couldn't care actually. But this is still pretty cheap, if true.

* gives 20 bucks.* go play it and finish the game lol

[Red of Rivia]

Seriously, this could get the thread locked. Some of us like this thread. 

Like me, this topic has most of my posts ;-;

[LobselVith8]

 

There is nothing wrong with putting in an unlikely option for success if the reason it fails is flagged up and logical.   Where it is more annoying is a situation like in DAO, where the Dalish are given a boon by the monarch.   The epilogue hinted there are tensions between elves and humans, which was only to be expected, but it seemed like the main elven leader was keeping things under control.    Bearing in mind this was a gift of the monarch in reward for services rendered by the Warden (who may have sacrificed themselves to save Ferelden) and to a lesser extent the actual contribution of the Dalish as a whole to the war, you would think that the monarch would put a bit of effort into making sure it succeeded.    Then you just get a throwaway comment in DA2 from Alistair (you never even find out if Anora is on the throne) to Merrill (only if in your party at the time) that he is sorry it didn't work out.   And that is it.    You are left wondering  why didn't it work out?   What exactly happened and what did you King Alistair do to help?    However, it is left up in the air and never mentioned again.    You are just left to assume that history has repeated itself because the two races hate each other so much they can't be persuaded to live together peacefully.   A pretty depressing thought.  

 

Yeah, Lanaya keeping the peace between the Dalish in the Hinterlands and their human neighbors outside the Hinterlands is pretty much ignored, as is her becoming a respected figure at court.

[Hellion Rex]

Back to topic, do you think that we'll meet Razikale on DA4? If so, she'd be Solas' team or foe?

I would certainly like to encounter her. I'd almost like to see her in her untainted form, before the Darkspawn awaken her. It'd be kind of cool to accidentally stumble upon her before the 6th Blight is meant to begin.

That said, I don't think she'd necessarily be on the same side as Solas or automatically opposed. I'd like to think the Old Gods, whatever they are, would be perhaps a more neutral party that aren't necessarily related to whatever Solas's plans entail.

[The Elder King]

It depends on what the Old gods are. If they're the Forgotten Ones, she might not be too keen in breaking the Veil and freeing the Evanuris.
Though if they're FO They might've been locked in the Deep Roads by Solas, so they might have problems with them by default.

[GoldenGail3]

Well dang it. I got my first warning because of this thread. 

[LobselVith8]

It depends on what the Old gods are. If they're the Forgotten Ones, she might not be too keen in breaking the Veil and freeing the Evanuris.
Though if they're FO They might've been locked in the Deep Roads by Solas, so they might have problems with them by default.

 

There's also the question regarding why the Old Gods allegedly wanted the Magisters to reach the Golden City. Razikale is reputed to have supported the attempt to reach the Golden City, and allegedly spoke to "The Augur of Mystery" (the High Priest of Razikale) to encourage this expedition.

[Andromelek]

Well dang it. I got my first warning because of this thread.

Meh, not to worry, those mods are pretty inconsistent and I even heard of people up to 9 warnings without any side effect, you may be banned only for severe things and it could happen even if you had zero warnings.

[The Ascendant]

I always thought that it made the most sense for the Old Gods to be the Forgotten Ones that took the forms of Dragons and were locked away in the Deep Roads at the same time the Veil was erected. Hopefully if we meet Razikale and save her from being tainted and wake her up she could answer some questions for us, which is somewhat unlikely considering that she is the Dragon of Mystery, and chances are high she would probably eat us.

[Gervaise]

It seems more than coincidence that  everyone seems to think that the strange city in the Fade was the home of their particular set of gods.   It is believed to be the seat of the Maker, the home of the old gods and the eternal city of the Creators.    They can't all be right.  

[Lady Artifice]

So. Do you think they wear sandals in Tevinter? I'm tired of soggy, freezing Ferelden and their sodding boots! And Orlesian frippery, bah! My toes gotta breathe. I want to see some gladiator sandals, the ankle-length ones and the ones that go up past your knees.

If anyone wears socks with sandals in Tevinter I just assume they're excommunicated by the Black Divine.

 

I'd so love to see the ancient Roman aesthetic all over in DA4, especially anything associated with gladiators.

[GoldenGail3]

Meh, not to worry, those mods are pretty inconsistent and I even heard of people up to 9 warnings without any side effect, you may be banned only for severe things and it could happen even if you had zero warnings.

Oh well apperately it was for trolling. And that's lol to me. 

[Andromelek]

There's also the question regarding why the Old Gods allegedly wanted the Magisters to reach the Golden City. Razikale is reputed to have supported the attempt to reach the Golden City, and allegedly spoke to "The Augur of Mystery" (the High Priest of Razikale) to encourage this expedition.

We actually do not know if they were the ones who called the Magisters, Corypheus ultimately was uncertain if they ever existed and we only know that "a voice called them" if the Magisters never met the real Old Gods, the voices they heard could've been anything, from a troll spirit to an Evanuir.

[raging_monkey]

Well dang it. I got my first warning because of this thread.

you were protecting the home. Think of it as a scar of merit. (Brandished my warning point)