15994 réponses à ce sujet

[TheJediSaint]

Lost a fight even though he had (frail, southern-born) mages simultaneously buffing him and de-buffing his opponent.

His opponent being another Chevalier and the Empress' Champion.  What's your point?

[The Baconer]

His opponent being another Chevalier and the Empress' Champion.

 

Also not an Orlesian noble :>

[TheJediSaint]

Also not an Orlesian noble :>

Try not to say that to his face.  

[Tevinter Soldier]

It's amazing though - that people ignore "how" Tevinter Magisters advance... it's not like getting all "A's" in high school. 

 

If you're a high ranking Magisters 99 out of a 100 times - you're a psychotic megalomaniac who's betrayed, lied, murdered, robbed your way to the top.

 

stop you're making me blush.

[The Baconer]

Try not to say that to his face.  

 

I don't think he'd even deny it at this point.

[TheJediSaint]

I don't think he'd even deny it at this point.

Old habits die hard.  People less so.

[Lulupab]

I'm gonna feed Gaspard Ferelden Turnips before killing him.

[The Baconer]

Old habits die hard.  People less so.

 

Which habits? There are a number of people who acknowledged the state of his birth to his face, and they are still breathing.

[raging_monkey]

Bah. I do not care for orlaisian nobility but they have thwir uses

[Mistic]

It's amazing though - that people ignore "how" Tevinter Magisters advance... it's not like getting all "A's" in high school. 

 

If you're a high ranking Magisters 99 out of a 100 times - you're a psychotic megalomaniac who's betrayed, lied, murdered, robbed your way to the top.

 

Does that mean that there's only 1 hereditary magister in Tevinter? Let's not forget that the Magisterium follows a system similar to the House of Lords in the United Kingdom:

-A magister is chosen by each of the nation's seven Circles

-The Divine and every grand cleric get a seat too.

-The Archon can choose to appoint new magisters at any time.

-There are also hereditary seats.

 

The first ones might have done pretty bad things to be eligible for that position. But heirs of previous magisters? Why should they? Typical and unfair Altus privilege, I'm sure, but not the product of a social darwinist hierarchy.

[Daerog]

Let's not forget that not all children of mages are mages, and so it is possible to have non-mages in positions of government. Probably most posts are filled by non-mages, and it is only within the last couple hundred years that Tevinter's top posts have been filled by mages. Since Tevinter has its houses, many of these positions do become hereditary, although it is not guaranteed, since a higher up could remove someone from a post if they are inadequate.

 

The Archon doesn't have to be a mage. It is hereditary, but as I said, not all mages have children with the gift of magic.

 

While the idea of starting at the bottom in a Tevinter game sounds like a nice start, I would like a path that doesn't necessarily lead to being a Magister, not everyone wants to go straight into politics, some may be happy with just scholarly work and management, like being a First Enchanter (who cannot be a magister). On the other hand, if one isn't a mage, there are other paths available as well, and like with most lower class citizens in the other nations of Thedas, that means making it big in trade or in martial deeds.

 

 

As for RPing as mages in power, I wouldn't mind changing my position to being a knight-commander of the Imperial Templars who serves a devout Grand Cleric, but as I've tended to RP as mages, I just went with that, but wouldn't mind be a mundane that is of the Imperial Chantry.

 

Not many RP as regular citizens, as there wouldn't be much to talk about. Would be funny for RP threads to pop up, "Serfs of Orlais," "Refugees of Fereldan," "Casteless of Orzammar," etc.

 

 

I'm worried that people are making too many comparisons to the Sith Empire with Tevinter. Yes, some similarities are there, but an apprentice does not take the master's seat when the master leaves, the master's child usually does and the apprentice just learns the trade from the master.

 

 

 

It would be awesome if BioWare released a series of DLC that were similar to Leliana's Song, in that they are not connected to the main plot, but each DLC has you being a citizen or member of different cultures/nations. The first one could be someone being educated in the Qun in Seheron, another could be a scion to a small Altus house that has connections with the lower and higher classes, another could be a villager in the Anderfels, and could also have an Antivan sailor.

 

Well, maybe they could just be (online) comics instead, but DLC would be fun as well...

[EmperorSahlertz]

Archon and seats in the Magisterium is exclusively mages (Or at least the ones which aren't from the clergy). And hereditary doesn't mean that it is a title that runs in the family. It just means that the Magister or Archon gets to choose their own successor. No self-respecting Archon or Magister would ever pass the title to a non-mage, nor would any other Tevinter noble ever let that happen. If you aren't a mage in Tevinter, you will only ever be second-grade.

[Sir DeLoria]

^Which is weird because I can think of hundreds of mundanes who are a thousand times more powerful, stronger and better than the vast majority of mages.

[The Baconer]

^Which is weird because I can think of hundreds of mundanes who are a thousand times more powerful, stronger and better than the vast majority of mages.

 

No you can't.

[Sir DeLoria]

No you can't.

Jowan vs Alistair

Drastic, but most mages in DA can't fight worth sh*t. My Rogue Hawke can kill even the mighty Danarius in a few seconds.

[Lulupab]

Mundanes who have known to give birth to mages or are from a mage family are 2nd class nobles. Still better than commoners.

Jowan vs Alistair
Drastic, but most mages in DA can't fight worth sh*t. My Rogue Hawke can kill even the mighty Danarius in a few seconds.

PC doesn't count.

[Daerog]

Archon and seats in the Magisterium is exclusively mages (Or at least the ones which aren't from the clergy). And hereditary doesn't mean that it is a title that runs in the family. It just means that the Magister or Archon gets to choose their own successor. No self-respecting Archon or Magister would ever pass the title to a non-mage, nor would any other Tevinter noble ever let that happen. If you aren't a mage in Tevinter, you will only ever be second-grade.

 

Hmm... maybe I read too much into Archon Nomaran's rise to power then, as he wasn't Archon until the Storm Age (actually not sure on the Age, not bothering to look it up) and he was elected from the ranks of the enchanters which scandalized the rest of Thedas and was said to be a return to the rule of the old magisters or something. So, I assumed those before him were mundanes, or possibly hidden mages, but I could be wrong.

 

The Imperial Chantry used to have many mundane clerics and such, but as the Altus rose to power after they recovered from the Transfiguration, it has shifted that one basically needs to be a part of a Circle to become a Grand Cleric....

 

Maybe a second Transfiguration needs to happen... hmmm.....

 

 

Edit: Anyway, as I said in an earlier post: Ya, all the top tier positions are filled by mages, but that is more due to culture and custom rather than law. The Circle is the best place for one to be recognized, but the law does not forbid non-mages to gain power, it is just more difficult as they don't have an institution that helps them gain power like the Circle does for mages.

 

Edit2: Although, it does make sense for the Grand Clerics and Divine to be mages as magic is seen as a divine gift, which should be respected and used in accord with the Maker's will and not just as some tool for personal profit!

 

Edit3: HA! I was just rereading some codex entries, and I see that the Divine acts as Divine and Grand Enchanter both... which is weird. The Codex Entry: The Imperial Chantry says that the Divine is elected among the first enchanters, but WoT says the Grand Clerics vote for the Divine usually from among the Grand Clerics... I guess WoT wins out... These codex entries are confusing, it's like we won't truly know Tevinter until we speak to Dorian or actually go there.

[Sir DeLoria]

PC doesn't count.

So can most companions, like Isabela, Aveline, Fenris or Sebastian.

Most high ranking Templars (Greagoire, Lambert and even Meredith) would also make short work of a powerful mage like him.

[Lulupab]

So can most companions, like Isabela, Aveline, Fenris or Sebastian.
Most high ranking Templars (Greagoire, Lambert and even Meredith) would also make short work of a powerful mage like him.

Wynne washes the floor with a pride demon, and mind you only a very few pride demons have been killed in history of Thedas half of which are killed by the hands of PC. Not to mention she saves the entire party from death. She is like 90 years old, imagine her power she was younger.

Anders, whether he *dies or stays alive kills hundreds of darkspawn all by himself in Awakening. "all fell by magic, no physical wound" as described by epilogue of Awakening. He is branded the hero of vigil's keep. He kills a full squad of Templars (yes its canon, wiki and WOT consider it as such, the details of how it happened might get retconned but the fact that Anders killed a squad of Templars, however he did that, is canon).

Morrigan does not need any explaining.

Merril is not behind Fenris, Isabela or Sebastian.

If we are talking about the aspects of gameplay Anders and Wynne are MVP in every single game they appear in. (Morrigan and Velanna can be speced to take their place but that's wasted talent points as they start with many offensive only abilities). They are so good taking them with you makes the very game less challenging.

[raging_monkey]

Hmm... maybe I read too much into Archon Nomaran's rise to power then, as he wasn't Archon until the Storm Age and he was elected from the ranks of the enchanters which scandalized the rest of Thedas and was said to be a return to the rule of the old magisters or something. So, I assumed those before him were mundanes, or possibly hidden mages, but I could be wrong.
 
The Imperial Chantry used to have many mundane clerics and such, but as the Altus rose to power after they recovered from the Transfiguration, it has shifted that one basically needs to be a part of a Circle to become a Grand Cleric....
 
Maybe a second Transfiguration needs to happen... hmmm.....
 
 
Edit: Anyway, as I said in an earlier post: Ya, all the top tier positions are filled by mages, but that is more due to culture and custom rather than law. The Circle is the best place for one to be recognized, but the law does not forbid non-mages to gain power, it is just more difficult as they don't have an institution that helps them gain power like the Circle does for mages.
 
Edit2: Although, it does make sense for the Grand Clerics and Divine to be mages as magic is seen as a divine gift, which should be respected and used in accord with the Maker's will and not just as some tool for personal profit!
 
Edit3: HA! I was just rereading some codex entries, and I see that the Divine acts as Divine and Grand Enchanter both... which is weird. The Codex Entry: The Imperial Chantry says that the Divine is elected among the first enchanters, but WoT says the Grand Clerics vote for the Divine usually from among the Grand Clerics... I guess WoT wins out... These codex entries are confusing, it's like we won't truly know Tevinter until we speak to Dorian or actually go there.

yes some magi forget magic is to serve man never rule over him... these are the worst of tevinter magic must serve the greater good not petty rivalry * sternly looks at bickering apprentices*

[Sir DeLoria]

Mmhm, mmhm, mhm that's all fine and dandy, but this isn't some contest between the companions, every mundane companion we have is potentially better than every non-companion mage in the games. That was the point all along, who's the best companion is totally irrelevant, I never denied that mages could be powerful.

I never take Anders, Merrill or Wynne anywhere and still find the games easy. Yes, they're useful but hardly vital. Plus the voices and dialogue of Anders and Merrill just make my ears bleed, for me they're by far the two most atrociously unbearable characters in the franchise.

I've never had Velanna as a companion

[Lulupab]

Mmhm, mmhm, mhm that's all fine and dandy, but this isn't some contest between the companions, every mundane companion we have is potentially better than every non-companion mage in the games. That was the point all along, who's the best companion is totally irrelevant, I never denied that mages could be powerful.
I never take Anders, Merrill or Wynne anywhere and still find the games easy. Yes, they're useful but hardly vital. Plus the voices and dialogue of Anders and Merrill just make my ears bleed, for me they're by far the two most atrociously unbearable characters in the franchise.
I've never had Velanna as a companion

I don't disagree because most mages are not trained to fight really. They can summon some magic but do you think circles would last for almost a thousand year if all mages were trained on magister levels? That's why you should not undermine the power of Tevinter mages, they are not helpless circle mages. They showed middle finger to everyone who approached Minrathous, even the maker himself.

[EmperorSahlertz]

There have been non-magi Archons.   Which is why a game that ends with an Imperial citizen becoming the Archon would be an awesome game. Slave and Altus origins included.

EVERY Archon known to us, has been a mage. While feasible that the title Archon was used in the interregnum while mages were confined to the Circles in Tevinter. It is however jsut as likely that the title was abolished for that time aswell. And in current Thedas the title of Archon is EXCLUSIVELY possessed by mages. Period.

[raging_monkey]

I love it when we use gameplay thats is entirly depenant or skill and basic math to have lore fights... kills my RP exp