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Sequel bait is a form of cliffhanger. A subcategory. A cliffhanger is simply an ending that leaves the audience in suspense. Introducing a new problem immediately after the initial one is resolve is just one way of doing that.
So every movie that hints that there might be another story to come in a sequel, like most Marvel movies, is actually a cliffhanger?
Such anticipation. Much suspense. Wow.
I'll just say I disagree and leave you to it, I guess.
Okay, let me put it this way. Picture the very end of DA2.
"...and then, as Leliana turns to speak to Cassandra, a dagger flies from off camera and plunges into her chest. Her eyes widen, and she falls. Cassandra spins, drawing her sword, but a blast of magic hits her and she also falls to the ground. The camera pans down, and we see the black boots of an unseen figure walking between the fallen pair as the sounds of battle are heard. Ominous music, fade to black."
Cliffhanger.
"...Leliana and Cassandra look puzzled. Then, the camera showing Cassandra's perspective, we see Leliana's eyes widen and she gasps, as if seeing something behind Cassandra. Cassandra spins around, and we see her shocked face but not who she's looking at. "You?" she cries. Smash cut to black. Ominous music."
Cliffhanger.
Posing a question, which is unresolved as they walk off?
Just an unresolved question, and a hint at the future. Not a cliffhanger.
Just to be picky the main conflict of the last game was the Mage/Templar conflict, that hasn't been resolved. I still don't believe the end was a cliffhanger because no characters were left in immediate danger or a suspense filled situation.
The main conflict was the Mage/Templar conflict in Kirkwall, which has.
So every movie that hints that there might be another story to come in a sequel, like most Marvel movies, is actually a cliffhanger?
Such anticipation. Much suspense. Wow.
I'll just say I disagree and leave you to it, I guess.
The reference to the non-coincidental disappearances was not just a "hint" that there "might" be another story. Leliana did not "pose a question" either. She stated with complete certainty that Hawke disappearing just like the Warden was no coincidence. She did not say "hmm, I wonder whether both of them disappearing is just a coincidence?" She was already convinced it wasn't. You can try to avoid calling it a cliffhanger and refer to it as "sequel bait" instead but that really is just the same thing. Look up the definition of cliffhanger and you will not get the definition you claimed here. As Zu Long said, a cliffhanger is an ending that leaves the audience in suspense. That takes more than just a vague hint that might turn into a new story. Stating (through Leliana) that Hawke and the Warden are missing and that something/someone is behind this (otherwise it would be coincidence) is creating a new problem at the very end that has the player in suspense, because this makes the faith of both his/her characters very uncertain.
You kept turning this into "not knowing the answer to every question", but DA is swimming in unanswered questions at the moment and nobody has been claiming those are all cliffhangers. Flemeth is still one big question mark, but that does not make her a cliffhanger. What's going to happen now that we have intelligent, talking darkspawn? How will the war between mages and templars be resolved? Will the dwarves be completely driven out of the Deep Roads eventually? Why are dragons suddenly coming back? Corypheus? Questions, questions, questions, all unresolved plot threads, and nobody is demanding to have the answers to all of them. Again, nobody is calling any of those outright cliffhangers.
Spoiler
Great points. Also, really, really cool scenes.
The main conflict was the Mage/Templar conflict in Kirkwall, which has.
Yep, catastrophically.
I didn't find the ending to DA2 a cliffhanger, just kinda lame and unrelated to choices made throughout.
As far as the Warden... Bioware will EVENTUALLY need to figure out a way to end or close his/her story. I'm not particularly bummed that the Hero of Fereldan isn't returning this time around but the character's absence will be conspicuous in the future if they inexplicably never take part in any of the earth-shaking events of Thedas despite being one of the most powerful and capable beings in the world, possibly a ruler of a nation.
If the Warden simply vanishes without explanation or closure, I think it sets a concerning precedent for the future of the series. If Bioware doesn't care enough about your very first protagonist, why would they care about the Inquisitor, or DA 4's hero?
So every movie that hints that there might be another story to come in a sequel, like most Marvel movies, is actually a cliffhanger?
Such anticipation. Much suspense. Wow.
I'll just say I disagree and leave you to it, I guess.
The question is whether or not it actually leaves the audience in suspense. The end of Iron Man didn't leave its audience in suspense as to the fate of the Hero, it just suggested that there were more stories to tell. It didn't, for instance, have a supervillain appear at the end or suggest Tony Stark had disappeared or have someone run in and say "Pepper's been kidnapped!"
Another example of what IS a cliffhanger might be the Matrix Reloaded, where Neo succeeds in rescuing Trinity and defying fate, but suddenly collapses at the end after demonstrating previously unknown powers. Here the fate of the hero has been suddenly thrown into doubt, even though the main question of the movie- Will Neo save Trinity? -has been answered. Had they simply chosen to end the movie with the fate of the Machine War unresolved, it would not have been a cliffhanger- it is the sudden introduction of a new, immediate problem that causes The Matrix Reloaded to be a cliffhanger, IMO.
In the same way, Dragon Age II was a cliffhanger. Leaving the Mage-Templar rebellion unresolved does not make it a cliffhanger. Suddenly introducing new information- (The Warden and Hawke have vanished from the face of the earth in the middle of the crisis!) throws the audience into suspense, and makes the ending a cliffhanger.
A new problem that pops up right before the end is, at best, "sequel bait". It's a new story. If the conflict of the current story has been resolved, it is not a cliffhanger. Not knowing the answer to every existing question does not make it one.
I'm sure you've followed my thread about the Warden, but if you haven't, the majority within really only seem concerned with seeing a cutscene for closure, whether it be the Warden leaving for the Calling, or being with Morrigan and their baby, or even being by Alistair's side in Ferelden's throne room, etc. And I think that's all they need.
Granted, it would be awesome to have the Warden fight at your side, when you face the Elder one too, and with that, it's action oriented and you don't need to rely on much story for it, if at all.
Re: A Comment from Gaider earlier in the thread
Maybe this is me being too picky, but if Hawke does show up and we do get to CC him, is that something that happens the moment he appears as part of his "walking on stage" (like the Inquisitor gets in the beginning), or would we have to turn our head and kind of ignore the fact he looks wrong for a little while before then getting the option? (Again, if he shows up ... Hypothetically 
)
I'm sure you've followed my thread about the Warden, but if you haven't, the majority within really only seem concerned with seeing a cutscene for closure, whether it be the Warden leaving for the Calling, or being with Morrigan and their baby, or even being by Alistair's side in Ferelden's throne room, etc. And I think that's all they need.
Granted, it would be awesome to have the Warden fight at your side, when you face the Elder one too, and with that, it's action oriented and you don't need to rely on much story for it, if at all.
Where does this end? Unless the hero's dead by the end of the work, there's going to be some uncertainty about his ultimate fate.The question is whether or not it actually leaves the audience in suspense. The end of Iron Man didn't leave its audience in suspense as to the fate of the Hero, it just suggested that there were more stories to tell. It didn't, for instance, have a supervillain appear at the end or suggest Tony Stark had disappeared or have someone run in and say "Pepper's been kidnapped!"
they have explained it to be a multiverse. depending on the DLC/game/book, each world is its own and just a story using the same world. sit back and enjoy the Inquisition story. dont nit pick at little things. if your so obsessed with the warden go back and play DAO. im here for DAI.
@david. i wouldn't take anyones crap. you have made an amazing world and story. ill take it in any way shape or form you choose to present it in. i truly respect your work.
Where does this end? Unless the hero's dead by the end of the work, there's going to be some uncertainty about his ultimate fate.
I see where DG wants to draw the line. I don't see where you're drawing it
Here's a good rule of thumb a Writing professor once told me-
If the end of any book, movie, chapter, episode or otherwise leaves you asking the question- "Oh snap! What happened to 'x'!?" (where 'x' is someone of particular importance to the audience, generally, but not necessarily, the protagonist), and the only legitimate answer you can come up with is "Probably nothing good," it's a cliffhanger.
Some examples-
"Oh snap! What happened to Doc Brown!?" -Back to the Future 2.
"Oh snap! What happened to Han Solo!?" -The Empire Strikes Back.
"Oh snap! What happened to Neo!?" -The Matrix Reloaded
"Oh snap! What happened to Captain Jack!?" -Pirates of the Caribbean 2
"Oh snap! What happened to Hawke and the Warden!?" -Dragon Age 2
(I promise it's a coincidence that all of them are the second installments in a series.) This method won't catch every type of cliffhanger ending, but if it applies, it almost certainly is one.
So every movie that hints that there might be another story to come in a sequel, like most Marvel movies, is actually a cliffhanger?
Such anticipation. Much suspense. Wow.
I'll just say I disagree and leave you to it, I guess.
I just feel the need to express my opinion regarding the matter Mr. Gaider, with all due respect of course.
Without a doubt you know your own game's story much better than we do, however in my eyes I see that Dragon Age 2's ending can easily be perceived as a cliffhanger for a couple of reasons. Firstly being how the story started on Cassandra - seeking - the champion which eventually lead to Varric's tale of the champion, the thing is Varric told his tale but in the end it didn't really accomplish what Cassandra started out doing and that was to know the whereabouts of the champion, understandably this is basically hinting towards a future story finishing that chapter but what added the cliff-hanger-ish feel to it was when Cassandra talked to Lelianna about both the champion and the HoF being missing and Lelianna adding the line "This is no coincidence" without further explanation then when Cass asked whether to proceed with their original plan or to continue their search, Lelianna's answer was ambiguous, I think it goes without saying that it does leave the player 'hanging'. Another point is that we never actually found out what happened to Hawke and without doubt he's has the most integral role in Dragon Age II.
To sum up what I said, while Dragon Age II had a couple of conflicts and key plot points - not just one, it still included Cassandra and the seekers looking for the champion, and even when asked whether to stop searching Lelianna responded with "Trust in the maker" or something along that line which implied that it's unknown whether Cassandra will still look for the champion or not. As such I believe that when someone thinks Dragon Age 2's ending is a cliff hanger, they aren't wrong.
All that being said I'd just like to add that I don't agree with the OP, the story didn't end setting up for the 'wardens appearance' at all but more or less a sequel that will follow Cassandra's path, in a manner of speaking.
P.S.: Should I have misunderstood your spree of replies, please forgive me and forget I wrong any of what I've just written.
Honestly all i hope for is that we find out in some way why/how the Warden vanished, especially if you made them Queen or Prince Consort of Ferelden. More specifically, it would be awesome to see Alistair going on a warpath to find his missing Queen if something underhanded might have happened.
So every movie that hints that there might be another story to come in a sequel, like most Marvel movies, is actually a cliffhanger?
Such anticipation. Much suspense. Wow.
I'll just say I disagree and leave you to it, I guess.
Aren't 'such anticipation' and 'much suspense' perfectly grammatically valid, and thus not in the spirit of doge? 
Or maybe you were being super sneak and pulling a reverse doge on us... a 'dog'.... 
That's an awfully subjective rule. If I apply that rule DA2 isn't a cliffhanger, since I didn't have that moment. It's not at all apparent to me that anything bad is likely to happened to either the Warden or Hawke. Certainly my Hawkes have had enough of bailing people out of their own damn problems.Here's a good rule of thumb a Writing professor once told me-
If the end of any book, movie, chapter, episode or otherwise leaves you asking the question- "Oh snap! What happened to 'x'!?" (where 'x' is someone of particular importance to the audience, generally, but not necessarily, the protagonist), and the only legitimate answer you can come up with is "Probably nothing good," it's a cliffhanger.
It's been stated elsewhere, but I'll just say it again:
All we've said is that you won't see your DAO Warden appear in-game.
That does not mean he/she is not mentioned. It does not mean he/she is not in any way involved in the story, or that you won't find out what happened to him/her with regards to the "disappearance". It also doesn't mean that any of these things definitely will happen either, of course, but to assume the lack because it's not stated outright doesn't really follow. We're not going to re-assure you further, other than to let you play the game and find out for yourselves.
If the suggestion is that saying the DAO Warden went missing at the end of DA2 meant implying they would play a larger role in the sequel, however, as in that they would appear in person...sorry if someone finds that disappointing, but as cool as that might (potentially) have been, I don't think that follows either.
We collect a lot of information on the choices in previous games to let you build a consistent world state, and those choices will play into DAI in various ways. That's all I'll really say on the topic.
I'm no regular on the forums, but I would like to say there really should be no further discussion on this. The man who wrote the damn story we love so much is actually here responding to a posted topic that, in looking back, is legit. However, there comes a point where ya just gotta play the game.
I personally was a bit nervous abt the ending of da2 tying into inquisition as well, but seeing the actual author here humbly explaining things is...amazing. If that don't do it for ya, well, hire a psychic or a shrink. Looking forward to this game Mr. Gaider. Thank you for the hard work!!
its super cool he engages with us, but that doesn't mean stop the conversation and nod along with rapt expressions of joy and amazement. I'm sure he'd accept that (or die of shock), but as long as people are being respectful, discussion is what this place is for, no?
I agree with Gaider on this matter, but this is a strange perspective. If people aren't satisfied with his explanation, it's perfectly normal for them to discuss it without needing therapy.
Agreed. Unless the inventor of the term 'cliffhanger' and all its interpretations came on here, its still debatable whether the ending was a cliffhanger whether it was intended or not.
To me, the big difference is that DA:O ends with basically the castle where you talk to everyone or the funeral after you've dealt with the archdemon. You still have a couple of plot-threads like Morrigan, but the main purpose of the game has been concluded.
With DAII, the ending is literally questions about Hawke and the Warden disappearing. Of course, it could be said that the point of a lot of DAII is to introduce conflicts that appear in future games such as the red templars, mage/templar conflict, Corypheus, etc. If you want to go that way, it could argue the entire game is either a set-up or cliffhanger to future games.
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