417 réponses à ce sujet

[Azaron Nightblade]

all i know is hawke better tell me what happened to the HOF  since they disappeared at the same time.

 

Nah.

Varric should do the storytelling. It'll be epic.

[Gtdef]

The warden is in cryo. He will be featured in the next Mass Effect game.

[9TailsFox]

Reidbynature, on 30 Sept 2014 - 6:20 PM, said:

Bioware should have said straight off the bat if the Warden wasn't going to appear in Inquisition.  With the mention of him/her being missing, which was odd and out of place and therefore built up some sort of expectation as to where we might see the Warden next, it was going to disappoint a lot of people when it turned out they weren't going to pick up that thread in Inquisition.

 

Maybe Bioware should write all DA:I endings at the same time or just post all script for convince.

[dsl08002]

Do you ever listen to yourself? You sound like a child. No one is "to blame". Bioware didn't do anything wrong. There are numerous problems with putting the warden in the game. You got excited that they would be one. They're not in. Be disappointed, then get over it.

So you think is right to give people false hope.

To be honest and up front with it is a bad thing.

There are things that you just dont do to people

[Dutchess]

Bioware said early on, that once the game is finished the Protagonist from the game is no longer the player's. Bioware can, and will do what they want with the character. Nothing wrong with that at all. They have been upfront and frank about that bit from the get-go. The warden is tied to Darkspawn trouble anyway. Its his job. DA:I doesn't have darkspawn as the main threat at all. No reason for the warden to be too involved. Hawke I can easily see why he is involved. The mage + Templar war is raging on, and he is very much tied to it. Hawke makes sense in DA:I, the warden (as far as we know) doesn't really have any reason to be involved.

 

And I don't agree with that (Bioware's stance). Isn't the whole point of an RPG to create your (as the player) character using the tools the game provides you with? It's a cooperation between the developer and the player, with the developer providing as many options as possible within the limits and restrictions they set and the player using those options and when necessary adding his/her own interpretations and motivations.

Say what you will. The Warden is AT LEAST as much the player's character as it is Bioware's. I'd say even more so. Everything else is Bioware's character. The world is Bioware's. But the player character is shaped by the player, the player's way to interact with Bioware's world and Bioware's characters. This creates an attachment between the player and his/her own character. Bioware knows that, and they have exploited that knowledge. They threw the player off guard by ending DA2 with a cliffhanger reference to the previous character. It was like a big, flashing neon sign: FIND OUT WHAT IS GOING ON WITH THE WARDEN (AND HAWKE) IN THE NEXT GAME! PREORDERS AVAILABLE SOON! 

 

They took advantage of players' attachment to their characters and used it as a hook to pull players in for the Next Big Thing. Doing this was a mistake, I agree, but not because now poor Bioware is going "whoops, didn't we have, like, three races and six origins for this character and lots of different endings? I thought we just had a human noble and that dwarf nobody played so we didn't have to bother with that one!" Please. These guys are supposed to be professionals. You're not telling me that they weren't aware of all the possible Wardens and their potential end states when they used him/her for DA2's ending. 

I find many people here downright disrespectful to OP, insinuating that he is just being petty and so stupid to think there will be more to his Warden's story, while Bioware has purposefully created those expectations.

 

Using this kind of cliffhangers and then complaining people are irrational in expecting their Warden's story to be continued and not delivering on what the cliffhanger promises is not something to be excused. They have every right to promote their new game and create incentives for people to buy it, but that doesn't mean it's fine if they resort to cheap manipulation like this. If you must raise a big question in a cliffhanger way, you better see it through and bring it to a satisfying conclusion. Anybody else thought DA2 would shed more light on the mystery of Flemeth after playing Witch Hunt?

Morrigan: omg! You wouldn't believe what I discovered about Flemeth! It's so terrible! She's totally not even human!

Player: what?! She's still alive? What is she? What does she want to do???

Morrigan: whoops, is it that late already? Gotta go. I have a train- I mean an Eluvian to catch! Oh, I left something totally awesome for you here! I'm sure you'll find it VERY interesting. *nudge nudge wink wink*

Player: but what about Flemeth?! What is she up to? *sigh* Okay, maybe what Morrigan left explains it. What did she have for me? What does it say?

THE END

Player:  Well, I guess I'll have to wait till DA2 to find out...

[Almostfaceman]

FIND OUT WHAT IS GOING ON WITH THE WARDEN (AND HAWKE) IN THE NEXT GAME! PREORDERS AVAILABLE SOON! 

 

We will find out what's going on with both. We just won't actually see our Warden. 

 

We also find out what's going on with Morrigan. Who knows, perhaps we'll find out what's going on with Flemeth - seems likely with all the dragons flying about.

 

I don't want them to wrap things up quickly though. Stretch out a really good story over many games, that's the way to go methinks. 

[Reidbynature]

 

Maybe Bioware should write all DA:I endings at the same time or just post all script for convince.

 

Try reading my reply to Kantr's counter-point to my post.  I think that pretty much deals with the same point you're trying to make.

 

http://forum.bioware...ame/?p=17414128

[Rawgrim]

And I don't agree with that (Bioware's stance). Isn't the whole point of an RPG to create your (as the player) character using the tools the game provides you with? It's a cooperation between the developer and the player, with the developer providing as many options as possible within the limits and restrictions they set and the player using those options and when necessary adding his/her own interpretations and motivations.

Say what you will. The Warden is AT LEAST as much the player's character as it is Bioware's. I'd say even more so. Everything else is Bioware's character. The world is Bioware's. But the player character is shaped by the player, the player's way to interact with Bioware's world and Bioware's characters. This creates an attachment between the player and his/her own character. Bioware knows that, and they have exploited that knowledge. They threw the player off guard by ending DA2 with a cliffhanger reference to the previous character. It was like a big, flashing neon sign: FIND OUT WHAT IS GOING ON WITH THE WARDEN (AND HAWKE) IN THE NEXT GAME! PREORDERS AVAILABLE SOON! 

 

They took advantage of players' attachment to their characters and used it as a hook to pull players in for the Next Big Thing. Doing this was a mistake, I agree, but not because now poor Bioware is going "whoops, didn't we have, like, three races and six origins for this character and lots of different endings? I thought we just had a human noble and that dwarf nobody played so we didn't have to bother with that one!" Please. These guys are supposed to be professionals. You're not telling me that they weren't aware of all the possible Wardens and their potential end states when they used him/her for DA2's ending. 

I find many people here downright disrespectful to OP, insinuating that he is just being petty and so stupid to think there will be more to his Warden's story, while Bioware has purposefully created those expectations.

 

Using this kind of cliffhangers and then complaining people are irrational in expecting their Warden's story to be continued and not delivering on what the cliffhanger promises is not something to be excused. They have every right to promote their new game and create incentives for people to buy it, but that doesn't mean it's fine if they resort to cheap manipulation like this. If you must raise a big question in a cliffhanger way, you better see it through and bring it to a satisfying conclusion. Anybody else thought DA2 would shed more light on the mystery of Flemeth after playing Witch Hunt?

Morrigan: omg! You wouldn't believe what I discovered about Flemeth! It's so terrible! She's totally not even human!

Player: what?! She's still alive? What is she? What does she want to do???

Morrigan: whoops, is it that late already? Gotta go. I have a train- I mean an Eluvian to catch! Oh, I left something totally awesome for you here! I'm sure you'll find it VERY interesting. *nudge nudge wink wink*

Player: but what about Flemeth?! What is she up to? *sigh* Okay, maybe what Morrigan left explains it. What did she have for me? What does it say?

THE END

Player:  Well, I guess I'll have to wait till DA2 to find out...

 

 

The Warden is the player's character for the duration of the game he is the protagonist in. So after DA:O and the expansion + DLC, his story is over. Dragon Age is about the Dragon Age - a period of time in Thedas. Not about one individual.

[AshesEleven]

And I don't agree with that (Bioware's stance). Isn't the whole point of an RPG to create your (as the player) character using the tools the game provides you with? It's a cooperation between the developer and the player, with the developer providing as many options as possible within the limits and restrictions they set and the player using those options and when necessary adding his/her own interpretations and motivations.
Say what you will. The Warden is AT LEAST as much the player's character as it is Bioware's. I'd say even more so. Everything else is Bioware's character. The world is Bioware's. But the player character is shaped by the player, the player's way to interact with Bioware's world and Bioware's characters. This creates an attachment between the player and his/her own character. Bioware knows that, and they have exploited that knowledge. They threw the player off guard by ending DA2 with a cliffhanger reference to the previous character. It was like a big, flashing neon sign: FIND OUT WHAT IS GOING ON WITH THE WARDEN (AND HAWKE) IN THE NEXT GAME! PREORDERS AVAILABLE SOON!

They took advantage of players' attachment to their characters and used it as a hook to pull players in for the Next Big Thing. Doing this was a mistake, I agree, but not because now poor Bioware is going "whoops, didn't we have, like, three races and six origins for this character and lots of different endings? I thought we just had a human noble and that dwarf nobody played so we didn't have to bother with that one!" Please. These guys are supposed to be professionals. You're not telling me that they weren't aware of all the possible Wardens and their potential end states when they used him/her for DA2's ending.
I find many people here downright disrespectful to OP, insinuating that he is just being petty and so stupid to think there will be more to his Warden's story, while Bioware has purposefully created those expectations.

Using this kind of cliffhangers and then complaining people are irrational in expecting their Warden's story to be continued and not delivering on what the cliffhanger promises is not something to be excused. They have every right to promote their new game and create incentives for people to buy it, but that doesn't mean it's fine if they resort to cheap manipulation like this. If you must raise a big question in a cliffhanger way, you better see it through and bring it to a satisfying conclusion. Anybody else thought DA2 would shed more light on the mystery of Flemeth after playing Witch Hunt?
Morrigan: omg! You wouldn't believe what I discovered about Flemeth! It's so terrible! She's totally not even human!
Player: what?! She's still alive? What is she? What does she want to do???
Morrigan: whoops, is it that late already? Gotta go. I have a train- I mean an Eluvian to catch! Oh, I left something totally awesome for you here! I'm sure you'll find it VERY interesting. *nudge nudge wink wink*
Player: but what about Flemeth?! What is she up to? *sigh* Okay, maybe what Morrigan left explains it. What did she have for me? What does it say?
THE END
Player: Well, I guess I'll have to wait till DA2 to find out...

People being disrespectful to OP no doubt remember his other threads a few days ago, where he said things like "WITCHER 3 GOTY BIOWARE LY 2 US THEY WIL PAY". Except with far worse grammar. This was, of course, before they all got taken down by mods.

Also, as David gaider has said, that was not a cliffhanger. It's a hook for the next story.

Also also , can we stop assuming we know what will happen? The warden won't appear, but will be dealt with through the story. Maybe the story will conclude, maybe it will continue to the next game. Bioware never promised you'd see your warden this game. They hinted that he or she have mysteriously disappeared, and that's it.

[Rawgrim]

Maybe we find the Warden's corpse somewhere, and have to investigate what happened. That would be cool, actually.

[Sifr]

So you think is right to give people false hope.

To be honest and up front with it is a bad thing.

There are things that you just dont do to people

 

To be fair, they never said the Warden would appear in Inquisition, they simply left it as an open-ended possibility.

 

We all just assumed that we'd see a previous protagonist appear because of their mysterious disappearance, so when Hawke appeared in the "Enemy of Thedas" trailer, we all suddenly assumed that validated this errant belief. In reality, all Enemy of Thedas did was confirm Hawke appears in Inquisition. Bioware were very clear that the guy beside Hawke wasn't the Warden.

 

It's unfair to start blaming and hating on someone when all they've done is simply correct something false we ran with as true, based on mere assumptions and sketchy evidence. Seriously, did people learn nothing from when the Catholic Church put Galileo on trial for "heresy" for pretty much this exact same thing?

 

Does a lack of appearance from the Warden (or not having a geocentric universe) really matter that much to people?

 

[Dutchess]

The Warden is the player's character for the duration of the game he is the protagonist in. So after DA:O and the expansion + DLC, his story is over. Dragon Age is about the Dragon Age - a period of time in Thedas. Not about one individual.

 

The Warden's story was over, and then Bioware decided to reopen it. I am tired of hearing "DA is about a time period in Thedas and does not revolve around one protagonist". I KNOW that, but Bioware is not sticking to that theme, at least not completely. The idea is simple. If someone's story is over, you don't hear from him again. There are no mysterious disappearances to solve.

 

People being disrespectful to OP no doubt remember his other threads a few days ago, where he said things like "WITCHER 3 GOTY BIOWARE LY 2 US THEY WIL PAY". Except with far worse grammar. This was, of course, before they all got taken down by mods.

 

I haven't seen those threads and see no reference to them here. I just see people mocking OP for having an expectation Bioware purposefully laid the ground for. Maybe OP can't be bothered to type coherent sentences, or maybe English is not his first language and he struggles with expressing himself. Either way it seems a poor excuse for the demeaning reactions.

 

Also, as David gaider has said, that was not a cliffhanger. It's a hook for the next story.

 

I don't care what the mighty Gaider calls it. It was a cliffhanger, an unnecessary one and one that prevented closure for both protagonists (and yes, Gaider also said they DID provide closure with DA2's ending, and I disagree). The hook for the next story was the mages rebelling against the templars, and it was an acceptable one (as far as any part of DA2's story was acceptable). The conflict in Kirkwall was resolved but it was clear it was spilling into other cites and other Circles. Ending DA2 with Hawke leaving Kirkwall (pro mage) or the templars bowing to Hawke (pro templar), Cassandra telling Leliana they don't know where Hawke has gone afterwards and then Leliana saying "then we have to go with plan B" or something along those lines would have been much more decent. You have the hook, it's clear there's a problem that will needs solving in the next game and by the looks of it this is exactly the problem Inquisition will deal with (that, and the Fade tears, obviously). 

What they're saying now, that the disappearance of the Warden "will be addressed" seems to suggest this will be a rather minor plot thread in DAI, which makes the claim that the disappearances were a hook for the next game even less believable. The Warden was mentioned to draw DAO lovers back in and have them come back for DAI, even if what lured them in was actually a minor issue that will be addressed while the Warden remains off-screen. It was a calculated move to end DA2 this way. If the Plot surrounding the disappearance of Hawke and Warden is actually really brilliant and just HAS to happen for the story, then it still could have been introduced in DAI and then continued. Ending DA2 with it didn't add anything except manipulating people through that other character they have put at least 50 hours into.

[AshesEleven]

The Warden's story was over, and then Bioware decided to reopen it. I am tired of hearing "DA is about a time period in Thedas and does not revolve around one protagonist". I KNOW that, but Bioware is not sticking to that theme, at least not completely. The idea is simple. If someone's story is over, you don't hear from him again. There are no mysterious disappearances to solve.

 

 

I haven't seen those threads and see no reference to them here. I just see people mocking OP for having an expectation Bioware purposefully laid the ground for. Maybe OP can't be bothered to type coherent sentences, or maybe English is not his first language and he struggles with expressing himself. Either way it seems a poor excuse for the demeaning reactions.

 

 

 

 

I don't care what the mighty Gaider calls it. It was a cliffhanger, an unnecessary one and one that prevented closure for both protagonists (and yes, Gaider also said they DID provide closure with DA2's ending, and I disagree). The hook for the next story was the mages rebelling against the templars, and it was an acceptable one (as far as any part of DA2's story was acceptable). The conflict in Kirkwall was resolved but it was clear it was spilling into other cites and other Circles. Ending DA2 with Hawke leaving Kirkwall (pro mage) or the templars bowing to Hawke (pro templar), Cassandra telling Leliana they don't know where Hawke has gone afterwards and then Leliana saying "then we have to go with plan B" or something along those lines would have been much more decent. You have the hook, it's clear there's a problem that will needs solving in the next game and by the looks of it this is exactly the problem Inquisition will deal with (that, and the Fade tears, obviously). 

What they're saying now, that the disappearance of the Warden "will be addressed" seems to suggest this will be a rather minor plot thread in DAI, which makes the claim that the disappearances were a hook for the next game even less believable. The Warden was mentioned to draw DAO lovers back in and have them come back for DAI, even if what lured them in was actually a minor issue that will be addressed while the Warden remains off-screen. It was a calculated move to end DA2 this way. If the Plot surrounding the disappearance of Hawke and Warden is actually really brilliant and just HAS to happen for the story, then it still could have been introduced in DAI and then continued. Ending DA2 with it didn't add anything except manipulating people through that other character they have put at least 50 hours into.

 

I'm still disagreeing with you about calling it a cliff-hanger, but you're obviously not gonna change your stand on that, so whatever. 

 

And I really don't see how the Warden is supposed to draw DA:O lovers into DA:I.  They obviously know the Warden wouldn't play a serious role, right?  That wasn't an actual expectation? 

 

Anyway, this argument is getting us nowhere.  Hopefully there are no hard feelings, and have a nice day  

[senorbluez88]

I am fairly confident there will be more than a side note for those ppl whose warden was alive after the events of witch hunt. For those that sacrificed, the comments at the end of da2 must be made sense of. I'm sure bioware wouldn't leave something like that hanging.

[dsl08002]

I am fairly confident there will be more than a side note for those ppl whose warden was alive after the events of witch hunt. For those that sacrificed, the comments at the end of da2 must be made sense of. I'm sure bioware wouldn't leave something like that hanging.

I hope you are right. I really do.

Recent evidence suggest that it is better to prepare for a no good explanation

[wtfman99]

I've always said, if they had just left my Warden in a happily ever after state with Leliana (obviously at some point he goes for a calling, but that's obvious unless Avernus somehow got the taint out of him).

 

Since Dragon Age 2 they brought up the Warden, I did feel entitled to an answer on what happened, and yes part of me thought that would include a physical appearance.

 

I am very disappointed in how this has played out. I think that Bioware should of just been up front about the Warden from the start. Warden making an appearance? Yes/No?

 

They have been super quiet about a lot of key issues, case in point, we're about a month and change out from launch and I don't even know what my special content is for my deluxe edition.

[Fredward]

People seriously need to stop confusing an actual plot hole with an unresolved plot. We don't know why the Warden and Hawke disappeared, presumably this would be answered or at least alluded to in DAI. And, yah know, sometimes writers even decide to leave some questions unanswered ~GASP~ on purpose.

[Fiddles dee dee]

As others have said with far more erudition, bringing back the Warden is just too complicated. Some ramifications yes but the character no. 

Still patience is a virtue and just waiting to see how it all pans out might give you something, you never know, look on the bright side.

[leaguer of one]

And I don't agree with that (Bioware's stance). Isn't the whole point of an RPG to create your (as the player) character using the tools the game provides you with? It's a cooperation between the developer and the player, with the developer providing as many options as possible within the limits and restrictions they set and the player using those options and when necessary adding his/her own interpretations and motivations.

Say what you will. The Warden is AT LEAST as much the player's character as it is Bioware's. I'd say even more so. Everything else is Bioware's character. The world is Bioware's. But the player character is shaped by the player, the player's way to interact with Bioware's world and Bioware's characters. This creates an attachment between the player and his/her own character. Bioware knows that, and they have exploited that knowledge. They threw the player off guard by ending DA2 with a cliffhanger reference to the previous character. It was like a big, flashing neon sign: FIND OUT WHAT IS GOING ON WITH THE WARDEN (AND HAWKE) IN THE NEXT GAME! PREORDERS AVAILABLE SOON! 

 

They took advantage of players' attachment to their characters and used it as a hook to pull players in for the Next Big Thing. Doing this was a mistake, I agree, but not because now poor Bioware is going "whoops, didn't we have, like, three races and six origins for this character and lots of different endings? I thought we just had a human noble and that dwarf nobody played so we didn't have to bother with that one!" Please. These guys are supposed to be professionals. You're not telling me that they weren't aware of all the possible Wardens and their potential end states when they used him/her for DA2's ending. 

I find many people here downright disrespectful to OP, insinuating that he is just being petty and so stupid to think there will be more to his Warden's story, while Bioware has purposefully created those expectations.

 

Using this kind of cliffhangers and then complaining people are irrational in expecting their Warden's story to be continued and not delivering on what the cliffhanger promises is not something to be excused. They have every right to promote their new game and create incentives for people to buy it, but that doesn't mean it's fine if they resort to cheap manipulation like this. If you must raise a big question in a cliffhanger way, you better see it through and bring it to a satisfying conclusion. Anybody else thought DA2 would shed more light on the mystery of Flemeth after playing Witch Hunt?

Morrigan: omg! You wouldn't believe what I discovered about Flemeth! It's so terrible! She's totally not even human!

Player: what?! She's still alive? What is she? What does she want to do???

Morrigan: whoops, is it that late already? Gotta go. I have a train- I mean an Eluvian to catch! Oh, I left something totally awesome for you here! I'm sure you'll find it VERY interesting. *nudge nudge wink wink*

Player: but what about Flemeth?! What is she up to? *sigh* Okay, maybe what Morrigan left explains it. What did she have for me? What does it say?

THE END

Player:  Well, I guess I'll have to wait till DA2 to find out...

This type of thing is understandable when your controlling the character. Once you don't it's all up for grabs. The devs are no obligated to let you play the same character. They did the same thing with raven with kotor.

[Lady Shayna]

This type of thing is understandable when your controlling the character. Once you don't it's all up for grabs. The devs are no obligated to let you play the same character. They did the same thing with raven with kotor.

Which sucks. Indeed, I absolutely, positively Refuse to believe it's the real Revan. If that's really their be philosophy, I would prefer they not bother and just starting making games with predefined protagonists.

I mean, I likely wouldn't play the games, but I would consider it more honest.

But considering their current emphasis on player choice and freedom, I truly don't believe that...stuff like Revan is what they're getting at. I would prefer a reference to a quote to clarify, but historically their stance has been significantly different, and stuff like the Revan Thing is an extreme outlier.

[AshesEleven]

Which sucks. Indeed, I absolutely, positively Refuse to believe it's the real Revan. If that's really their be philosophy, I would prefer they not bother and just starting making games with predefined protagonists.

I mean, I likely wouldn't play the games, but I would consider it more honest.

But considering their current emphasis on player choice and freedom, I truly don't believe that...stuff like Revan is what they're getting at. I would prefer a reference to a quote to clarify, but historically their stance has been significantly different, and stuff like the Revan Thing is an extreme outlier.

 

Maybe I'm in the extreme minority, but I liked what they did with Revan.  The fight with him was cool in SWTOR.  

[Sidney]

Warden has too many end states and they are all too divergent. Heck, if you didn't get DAA then you are in a very different place (if even alive) than you would be if you did get it. WH really adds to the problem since the whole question of did you enter the mirror or not comes up. I don't want them to even try and come upw ith some Frankenstein monster of a plot line that can accomodate all those states or worse come up with one that ignores any of them.

[Dutchess]

This type of thing is understandable when your controlling the character. Once you don't it's all up for grabs. The devs are no obligated to let you play the same character. They did the same thing with raven with kotor.

 

I don't want to play the same character. I have never said that and I keep repeating that I don't. I want Bioware to not play with my character as well.

[leaguer of one]

I don't want to play the same character. I have never said that and I keep repeating that I don't. I want Bioware to not play with my character as well.

*Looks at Revan.

 

Too bad and too late. They done it before and they will do it again.

[Lady Shayna]

Maybe I'm in the extreme minority, but I liked what they did with Revan. The fight with him was cool in SWTOR.

And I despise it. That's fine - we just have very different expectations is all.