195 réponses à ce sujet

[pengwin21]

I'm hesitant about the number of race-specific reactivity/dialogue options we'll get in Inquisition. Origins didn't have that many IMO and the races were there from the start.

[10K]

I like both city and dalish elves. But I have to say that the Sabrae clan (Marethari's clan) really put a bad tasted in my mouth when it comes to the dalish now. I just hope the Lavellan clan is much more stable.

[Incantrix]

Well, my Dalish elf will be a mage who is pretty atheist. He doesn't give any care about chantries and while he acknowledges the creators, they have left the elven and forsaken them. It's all about his scholarly work now. 

[Xilizhra]

I'm glad to see this, Xil.

 

I imagined earlier that there are three types of Elf fans related to the BSN: 

• The ones that let the elf detractors run over them and then ask for threads to be locked, admitting defeat and relegating elf discussions to threads where they are of secondary or tangential importance.
• The ones that allowed elf detractors to run them completely off the BSN, where they isolate themselves in pro-elf enclaves as far from non-elf fans as possible.
• And those, such as yourself, who are willing to 'die for the Dales', so to speak.

Good on you.

 

As for the elven content of DA:I, I hope you're right and they turn out to have decent story hooks, rather than simply being 'humans with pointy ears' for most of the game.

 

If the Elves do get some significant story, I hope it is them actually starting some positive change.  Thus far our exposure to the Dalish has been almost universally self-destructive.  Zathrian repeatedly taking his clan back to werewolf infested woods, Marethari ultimately causing the death or dissolution of her clan through obsession, Clan Virnehn summoning demons, and information stating that the clans basically just don't get along anymore all paint a picture of a people not ready for their own nation yet.

 

The Inquisitor could, potentially, be the start of turning that around.  Not the  conclusion, or even the whole solution, but a beginning.

 

The City Elves that follow Briala, however, would seem to be in for a rough time.  With a fresh demonstration of what happens when untrained peasants mistakenly believe that they are somehow safe from armed reprisal, open rebellion doesn't seem to be in the cards, and Briala's plan is too nebulous to actually offer any chance of success.  But again, it is possible they could offer something that allows them to negotiate for official support to address some grievances.  Nothing that will change almost a thousand years of prejudice overnight, but, again, a start.

 

Ultimately, I suppose it comes down to how much non-human content they've really managed to write and include in a single year of trying to get the game ready for release.  Given that for most of its development life the game was 'human PC only', and that the elves are sharing writer, artist and programmer resources with two other races, plus whatever else needed to be finished for humans, my expectations are modest.

Dwarves and qunari don't seem to have much, if anything, to do with the game, so the elves would only seem to be sharing resources of note with humans.

 

Briala's plan could, I think, be brought to success by the Inquisitor. While it's unlikely that one can avoid siding with both Celene and Gaspard, I see no reason why the Inquisitor couldn't ally with Briala regardless and persuade their candidate (probably Celene) to go along with Briala's reforms in exchange for the Inquisition's assistance.

 

As for the Dalish, they're pretty much a blank spot on the map in terms of a foreseeable future, as not a whole lot has been built up for them in terms of a continuing storyline... except for the Eluvians. Which makes me wonder if Briala's plot will have more ties to the Dalish than it initially seems. The Eluvians may even be the Dalish's one major stake/plot point in this war, though I don't know how they could be used for it.

[Steelcan]

Mark down my prediction as accurate,

 

less than three days and we have a new one

[Lulupab]

City Elves aren't weak at all if anything they're stronger than the Dalish. The Dalish wouldn't last a day going through the abuses City Elves deal with. It's easy to look down on people when you're running around in a forest pretty much safe from everything except your own stupidity

 

They both face hardships that are quite different than each other. Living as nomad is probably the hardest lifestyle one can adapt to. Constant worry about food, water and natural disasters but it does protect one's freedom and identity. We have many examples of this in real world, nomads living near huge empires such as Persia and Byzantine but safe from their reign because of the nomad lifestyle.

 

Every Dalish knows how to fight as its required of them in this lifestyle, Its forbidden for city elves to learn to fight. So literally speaking the Dalish are so much more capable than City elves.

[TK514]

Dwarves and qunari don't seem to have much, if anything, to do with the game, so the elves would only seem to be sharing resources of note with humans.

 

Briala's plan could, I think, be brought to success by the Inquisitor. While it's unlikely that one can avoid siding with both Celene and Gaspard, I see no reason why the Inquisitor couldn't ally with Briala regardless and persuade their candidate (probably Celene) to go along with Briala's reforms in exchange for the Inquisition's assistance.

 

As for the Dalish, they're pretty much a blank spot on the map in terms of a foreseeable future, as not a whole lot has been built up for them in terms of a continuing storyline... except for the Eluvians. Which makes me wonder if Briala's plot will have more ties to the Dalish than it initially seems. The Eluvians may even be the Dalish's one major stake/plot point in this war, though I don't know how they could be used for it.

 

Dwarves and Qunari need to have as much stake and development in the game as elves, otherwise there's no point in including them.  they could have kept it human only and saved themselves the trouble.

 

The Inquisition is pretty much the only way Briala's plan sees any success, and even then her current goals are so nebulous as to be meaningless.  She wants her fellow Orlesians (and she and many of the City Elves see themselves as Orlesian first, elf second) treated better, with no actual specifics on what that means, how it could be accomplished, or what measurements should be put in place to track it.  It's not as though the Orlesian monarch can legislate away prejudice overnight.  Right now, she's just throwing a tantrum and hoping she makes enough of a stink that someone pays attention.

 

And even with the Eluvians, she doesn't have a big enough bargaining chip to ensure any deal made wouldn't be disregarded the moment it was convenient.  The entire reason she stole the network from Celene in the first place is because everyone knew the Empress wasn't going to keep her promises.  Not to mention that nothing she has is sufficient to counter the fact that whoever controls Val Royeaux has something on the order of 10,000 hostages against her good behavior, with Halamshiral as a fresh example of what can happen if her treason becomes truly irritating.

 

I can certainly see the Dalish wanting the network, but I don't see what they have to offer Briala in order to get it.  She's made it very clear that she does not see them as her people, and they have no real stake in, or even understanding of, the reasoning behind her rebellion.  Not to mention that, given the differences between clans, you would hardly be treating with some unified Dalish entity.  You would be treating with each clan individually, assuming more than one showed up.  There's a lot of room for the Dalish to promise aid to the Orlesian elves only to betray them once the Dalish have what they want.

 

I could go on.  No matter who Briala sides with, in order to get there she had to commit treason.  That's not something a monarch is likely to forget or let pass indefinitely.  Unless they pull out some serious story contortions, I really see Briala's control of the network as a dead end.

[Incantrix]

Speaking on Dwarves and Qunari . I think they'll have a more concrete part in the story once we get to a game about Tevinter. 

[Xilizhra]

Dwarves and Qunari need to have as much stake and development in the game as elves, otherwise there's no point in including them.  they could have kept it human only and saved themselves the trouble.

 

The Inquisition is pretty much the only way Briala's plan sees any success, and even then her current goals are so nebulous as to be meaningless.  She wants her fellow Orlesians (and she and many of the City Elves see themselves as Orlesian first, elf second) treated better, with no actual specifics on what that means, how it could be accomplished, or what measurements should be put in place to track it.  It's not as though the Orlesian monarch can legislate away prejudice overnight.  Right now, she's just throwing a tantrum and hoping she makes enough of a stink that someone pays attention.

 

And even with the Eluvians, she doesn't have a big enough bargaining chip to ensure any deal made wouldn't be disregarded the moment it was convenient.  The entire reason she stole the network from Celene in the first place is because everyone knew the Empress wasn't going to keep her promises.  Not to mention that nothing she has is sufficient to counter the fact that whoever controls Val Royeaux has something on the order of 10,000 hostages against her good behavior, with Halamshiral as a fresh example of what can happen if her treason becomes truly irritating.

 

I can certainly see the Dalish wanting the network, but I don't see what they have to offer Briala in order to get it.  She's made it very clear that she does not see them as her people, and they have no real stake in, or even understanding of, the reasoning behind her rebellion.  Not to mention that, given the differences between clans, you would hardly be treating with some unified Dalish entity.  You would be treating with each clan individually, assuming more than one showed up.  There's a lot of room for the Dalish to promise aid to the Orlesian elves only to betray them once the Dalish have what they want.

 

I could go on.  No matter who Briala sides with, in order to get there she had to commit treason.  That's not something a monarch is likely to forget or let pass indefinitely.  Unless they pull out some serious story contortions, I really see Briala's control of the network as a dead end.

A criminal surfacer and a Vashoth; they don't seem to have many roots to begin with. They already live semi-integratedly within human society, unlike the Dalish PC.

 

As for the rest, it's a fascinating mix of circumstances, and I'll just have to wait and see. I could speculate more, but we don't have enough information to add much.

[Tielis]

The new CC shots aren't helping.

 

Spoiler

[AresKeith]

The new CC shots aren't helping.

Spoiler

Ha!

[TheJediSaint]

It does look like they maxed-out the pout-slider for the female elf in the CC Trailer.

[LostInReverie19]

Just dropping by to say that I fully support all elves: city and Dalish alike. We elvhen need to stand up against the abuses and tyranny of the shems! 

[Tevinter Soldier]

Elves have my full support............... Dedicated, Honest, Trustworthy.

 

Sadly it seems we'll have to wait until a game based in Tevinter to seem them portrayed as they should be.

[CuriousArtemis]

Dalish vs City Elves: Who wins?

 

Me, because I get to play an elf either way!

 

Did you guys see the male elf in the latest CC demo?! He's a cutie!

[veeia]

I would agree the CE are just as capable as the Dalish. Within the confines they're placed, they're very resourceful.  As for hardships....I think its pretty clear that Dalish and City elves (and Circle elves!) have suffered under human oppression. It's not really worth it to me to pit them all against each other and "take sides."  I mean, the narrative does sometimes pit them against each other(which makes sense to me), but from a macro level, we can see how it's a natural response to the systematic devaluation of elven lives and culture. If elves were seen as legitimate and given rights, respect, and lands....none of this Dalish v CE would matter because elves would have the personal agency to choose the lifestyle they prefer. 

 

So basically, in CE vs Dalish, who wins? Humans. 

[Steelcan]

I would agree the CE are just as capable as the Dalish. Within the confines they're placed, they're very resourceful.  As for hardships....I think its pretty clear that Dalish and City elves (and Circle elves!) have suffered under human oppression. It's not really worth it to me to pit them all against each other and "take sides."  I mean, the narrative does sometimes pit them against each other(which makes sense to me), but from a macro level, we can see how it's a natural response to the systematic devaluation of elven lives and culture. If elves were seen as legitimate and given rights, respect, and lands....none of this Dalish v CE would matter because elves would have the personal agency to choose the lifestyle they prefer. 

 

So basically, in CE vs Dalish, who wins? Humans. 

The issue is that City Elves and the Dalish don't have a whole lot in common beyond being elven and being oppressed. So I don't see what making elves full citizens would do to fix those differences.

 

The City elves are andrastians, living in human nations and cities, and even if they haven't fully assimilated into human societies they do not seem to be in favor of forming new elven nations, but instead they seem content to improve their lot where they currently are.  Their issues are Civil Rights issues.  They simply don't seem to be interested in the Dalish ideas.  Certainly some do join them, but we don't see mass exoduses of elves to the Dalish clans. 

 

The Dalish by contrast are entirely opposed to the assimilation into human nations and maintain a nomadic (sometimes semi-nomadic) lifestyle.  The keep their gods and culture alive, even if they aren't entirely aware of what it is they are attempting to preserve.  Their issues are nationhood and reforging an older identity that they feel was unjustly taken from them.

 

In the issue of Dalish vs CE there isn't an issue because they are two different cultural entities with different problems they want to fix.

[Dave of Canada]

Any hopes of me playing an elf was lost when announced I'd be forced to play Dalish, they're terribly uninteresting and I'd rather the game try to not whitewash the fact that we're playing hooligans.

[veeia]

 

The issue is that City Elves and the Dalish don't have a whole lot in common beyond being elven and being oppressed. So I don't see what making elves full citizens would do to fix those differences.

 

The City elves are andrastians, living in human nations and cities, and even if they haven't fully assimilated into human societies they do not seem to be in favor of forming new elven nations, but instead they seem content to improve their lot where they currently are.  Their issues are Civil Rights issues.  They simply don't seem to be interested in the Dalish ideas.  Certainly some do join them, but we don't see mass exoduses of elves to the Dalish clans. 

 

The Dalish by contrast are entirely opposed to the assimilation into human nations and maintain a nomadic (sometimes semi-nomadic) lifestyle.  The keep their gods and culture alive, even if they aren't entirely aware of what it is they are attempting to preserve.  Their issues are nationhood and reforging an older identity that they feel was unjustly taken from them.

 

In the issue of Dalish vs CE there isn't an issue because they are two different cultural entities with different problems they want to fix.

 

 

The point is not to fix any differences. Living an urban assimilated life is just as valid of an option as a nomadic, traditional life. Elves don't need one monolithic acceptable identity. I think it's also not really clear that the Dalish want to be nomadic--presumably the culture they are seeking to reclaim was based around the idea of settled land. For exactly the reasons you said, I think it makes perfect sense that they would have conflict and different issues. The source of these problems, however, does stem from the way they are treated by humans.They are both groups of an oppressed minority who are seeking the ability to live self-directed autonomous lives who experience that oppression purely because they are elven.

 

The problem with the elves is not that they're divided, but that both groups lack any real meaningful options because they are both disenfranchised. If the CE were able to see living outside of the alienage as a viable option, some might see the Dalish as something other than a fantasy. If the Dalish were able to communicate with humans without the threat of having their clans killed and/or assimilated, they might be able to have more reasonable conversations with them. 

 

Funny enough though, although I disagree with you on the citizen/commonality of elves, I do agree with your last point. Dalish vs CE isn't an issue, which is what I was really trying to say in my first post. As readers of the text, people in this forum (and elsewhere) tend to take a view of the two as diametrically opposed to eachother and that supporting one means condoning the other, or vice versa. This is not the case, imo. 

 

EDIT: to put the quote I was replying to in

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

I don't dislike the Dalish, but I love and prefer the city elves, and that is why I got upset when I found out that you're required to have a face tattoo as an elf in DA:I.

[Eveangaline]

So after seeing the CC, I'm rethinking my eventual elfquisitors looks. I planned a big full face tattoo but now that I know we have such good makeup options I don't know if I want to do both..unless I can find makeup and a tattoo that go really well together.

 

If I can't, I think I'll try a big forehead covering tattoo that leaves the rest of the face open for some nice makup.

 

I wonder how the almost fleshtone tattoos those who don't want tats will be using will interact with the makeup. Will they get covered by it or mess it up?

[Drasanil]

Any hopes of me playing an elf was lost when announced I'd be forced to play Dalish, they're terribly uninteresting and I'd rather the game try to not whitewash the fact that we're playing hooligans.

 

-Human noble.

-Dwarf Carta.

-Qunari Merc.

 

None of these are exactly morally pure origins. I don't see why dalish would qualify as whitewashing and not the others.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Dalish vs City Elves: Who wins?

 

What? You mean in a fight? City Elves are mostly peasants who are forbidden to own weapons or train how to use them. Dalish have hunters and mages and all train how to fight and hunt to some degree.

[Br3admax]

-Human noble.

-Dwarf Carta.

-Qunari Merc.

 

None of these are exactly morally pure origins. I don't see why dalish would qualify as whitewashing and not the others.

He means be part of clan that doesn't get itself killed. 

 

 

Anyway, what's wrong with assimilation into human cities again?