195 réponses à ce sujet

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

So after seeing the CC, I'm rethinking my eventual elfquisitors looks. I planned a big full face tattoo but now that I know we have such good makeup options I don't know if I want to do both..unless I can find makeup and a tattoo that go really well together.

If I can't, I think I'll try a big forehead covering tattoo that leaves the rest of the face open for some nice makup.

I wonder how the almost fleshtone tattoos those who don't want tats will be using will interact with the makeup. Will they get covered by it or mess it up?

Perhaps makeup could be used to cover them up. I would hope so.

[Drasanil]

He means be part of clan that doesn't get itself killed. 

 

Hey, I thought it was already established protags were snowflakes!

 

 

Anyway, what's wrong with assimilation into human cities again? 

 

Cooties? Well that and Thedas' cities probably stink to hell, rather be a country/farm elf than a city one. 

[TheJediSaint]

Hey, I thought it was already established protags were snowflakes! 

 

I've never rolled a snowflake.

[Br3admax]

Cooties? Well that and Thedas' cities probably stink to hell, rather be a country/farm elf than a city one. 

Honestly think most people in this thread are against it because it would simply be the beginning of the end for the elves. First we took their continent. Then their pride. If their genes follow, they'll have nothing left but stories. 

 

I've never rolled a snowflake.

You lived. With the Blight for a really long time before Ostagar. 

[veeia]

He means be part of clan that doesn't get itself killed. 

 

 

Anyway, what's wrong with assimilation into human cities again? 

 

There's nothing wrong with it inherently, as long as its not forced. 

 

But there are a few very big reasons why the Dalish would be against assimilation as it currently stands.

 

1)Their religion is illegal to practice. 

2)They would be going from a self-governing system into one where they aren't given any legal rights.

 

Basically, they would be asked to culturally assimilate, but then would be *segregated* from the human citizens of the city and sent to live in slums. They gain nothing.

 

If your argument is that elves should have full equal rights to humans, I agree. But that's not currently the case, so it doesn't make any sense. 

[Drasanil]

 

Honestly think most people in this thread are against it because it would simply be the beginning of the end for the elves. First we took their continent. Then their pride. If their genes follow, they'll have nothing left but stories. 

 

Well if they managed to fix what ever magical doo-hookie is causing their genes to shift, integration would be a lot less of a problem long term. At least the dalish are actively trying to preserve something of themselves for the time being, even if all the examples we have so far are bad at it. For the city elves it feels like they've already given up and the only reason they're still really around is because their terrible social status is in effect acting as barrier complete assimilation.

 

 

You lived. With the Blight for a really long time before Ostagar. 

 

  

[Br3admax]

I don't care about the Dalish, and I'm not sure why you're thinking that I'm speaking of them, veeia. This thread will last longer if I don't. 

[Steelcan]

There's nothing wrong with it inherently, as long as its not forced. 

 

But there are a few very big reasons why the Dalish would be against assimilation as it currently stands.

 

1)Their religion is illegal to practice. 

2)They would be going from a self-governing system into one where they aren't given any legal rights.

 

Basically, they would be asked to culturally assimilate, but then would be *segregated* from the human citizens of the city and sent to live in slums. They gain nothing.

 

If your argument is that elves should have full equal rights to humans, I agree. But that's not currently the case, so it doesn't make any sense. 

There must be some advantages to living as a City Elf as opposed to the Dalish.  The city elves don't exactly flock to or idolize the dalish and their way of life.

[Drasanil]

I don't care about the Dalish, and I'm not sure why you're thinking that I'm speaking of them, veeia. This thread will last longer if I don't. 

 

Because its was chained off from 'what's wrong with assimilation in human cities?' I was assuming it was in reference to those who refused to assimilate [dalish] as opposed to those who did [city elves] and clearly don't think it's 'wrong'.

[Br3admax]

Because its was chained off from 'what's wrong with assimilation in human cities?' I was assuming it was in reference to those who refused to assimilate [dalish] as opposed to those who did [city elves] and clearly don't think it's 'wrong'.

Nah, City Elves are kept in ghettos on the fringes of cities, like garbage. That's not assimilation.  

[veeia]

I don't care about the Dalish, and I'm not sure why you're thinking that I'm speaking of them, veeia. This thread will last longer if I don't. 

 

Oh, then why were you asking that question then? It seems like it was connected to the previous discussion. I apologize that I misunderstood. 

 

edit: gotcha. I agree there! 

[Drasanil]

Nah, City Elves are kept in ghettos on the fringes of cities, like garbage. That's not assimilation.  

 

In Kirkwall most city elves have it better than the humans in darktown. Kind of funny actually, gives you an idea what marchers think of fereldens 

[Jedi Master of Orion]

There must be some advantages to living as a City Elf as opposed to the Dalish.  The city elves don't exactly flock to or idolize the dalish and their way of life.

 

Because it's still their home and their lives and their culture. The dalish might be less commonly oppressed but they are still different. Some City Elves do idolize the Dalish, others fear them. But I think most would still prefer to live the life they have for themselves instead of somebody else's. I think there's a line option somewhere to tell that to Lanaya when she asks why they stay. City Elves live hard lives but I don't think they live a perpetually miserable existence like the Castless tend to.

[TheJediSaint]

There must be some advantages to living as a City Elf as opposed to the Dalish.  The city elves don't exactly flock to or idolize the dalish and their way of life.

Greater access to goods and services.  Dalish live as nomadic herders/ hunter gathers.  City Elves, on the other hand, generally know where their next meal is coming from.  (Assuming there's no famine, of course)

 

I suspect you're average City Elf is going to be more resistant to disease than a Dalish.

[Br3admax]

In Kirkwall most city elves have it better than the humans in darktown. Kind of funny actually, gives you an idea what marchers think of fereldens 

City elves also lived in Dark Town, though. 

[Drasanil]

 

I suspect you're average City Elf is going to be more resistant to disease than a Dalish.

 

That's more of a double-edged sword though, for instance I suspect the City Elves have a much higher child mortality rate given they live in absolutely cramped and filthy conditions. They're also far more likely to catch a lot of diseases. Where as the Dalish have ready access to mage healing, which is normally reserved for the upper classes in human society.

 

 

City elves also lived in Dark Town, though. 

 

True, but there are still a lot more humans there from the looks of things. It's likely dark town is just the dumping ground for anything that came off the boats.

[veeia]

Because it's still their home and their lives and their culture. The dalish might be less commonly oppressed but they are still different. Some City Elves do idolize the Dalish, others fear them. But I think most would still prefer to live the life they have for themselves instead of somebody else's. I think there's a line option somewhere to tell that to Lanaya when she asks why they stay. City Elves live hard lives but I don't think they live a perpetually miserable existence like the Castless tend to.

 

It's also I think for the same reason the Casteless don't leave for the surface in large groups, even though it is unarguably better for them to be there...they just don't have much information about what the Dalish/surface dwarves lives are like, they find it hard to believe that there are places where they can live that are better and  they are afraid of things being worse, and they don't really have any skills that would help them in the forest/on the surface. 

 

It just doesn't feel like a real possibility, I think. To some it might be a stupid fantasy, to others a fantastic one, but it's still...not really considered an option, unless you're desperate, or young. 

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Dalish healing magic is obviously quite powerful if it capable of temporarily reversing the effects of the darkspawn taint. Although, it's not like we can exactly what effect that would have on immunology with elves.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

It's also I think for the same reason the Casteless don't leave for the surface in large groups, even though it is unarguably better for them to be there...they just don't have much information about what the Dalish/surface dwarves lives are like, they find it hard to believe that there are places where they can live that are better and  they are afraid of things being worse, and they don't really have any skills that would help them in the forest/on the surface. 

 

It just doesn't feel like a real possibility, I think. To some it might be a stupid fantasy, to others a fantastic one, but it's still...not really considered an option, unless you're desperate, or young. 

 

The other thing is that City Elves are still a proud people, who instill a lot of importance in the traditions that they have developed. Their own culture is still important to them, even if it generally is worse for them in alienages than in a Dalish Clan. Castless have pretty much basically been rejected by all dwarven traditions.

[Br3admax]

Dunno, a clan has more freedom, but I expect life is just as hard, if not harder. 

[Drasanil]

The other thing is that City Elves are still a proud people, who instill a lot of importance in the traditions that they have developed. Their own culture is still important to them, even if it generally is worse for them in alienages than in a Dalish Clan. Castless have pretty much basically been rejected by all dwarven traditions.

 

That's true, if the CE origin showed us anything it's that the elves seem to care almost as much about bloodlines as the human nobility does.

[Master Warder Z_]

Dunno, a clan has more freedom, but I expect life is just as hard, if not harder. 

 

Life in them there hills is hard.

[veeia]

The other thing is that City Elves are still a proud people, who instill a lot of importance in the traditions that they have developed. Their own culture is still important to them, even if it generally is worse for them in alienages than in a Dalish Clan. Castless have pretty much basically been rejected by all dwarven traditions.

 

Sure, of course. They're not a direct comparison....but the parallels are there in that neither have access to the outside information nor the skills to feel like they'd make a life for themselves outside of Orzammar/the alienage.

 

Casteless dwarves are my favorite, but also pretty underdeveloped, imo. Basically every time we see them it's just criminal activity or a boot stomping on their head forever. Their lives are awful, no doubt, but people have a way of making up their own cultural traditions and finding meaning in their cultures that doesn't contradict their life, especially over long periods of time. But that's not the thread for this, lol. 

[Dave of Canada]

Nah, City Elves are kept in ghettos on the fringes of cities, like garbage. That's not assimilation.  

 

They're fully allowed to leave the ghetto and establish elsewhere, they're not being being kept there by any laws which tell them it's mandatory.

 

The problem with assimilation is the us vs them mentality being propagated by both sides and further reinforced by the Dalish's tales of racial supremacy and purity. Once that mentality can be abolished (either by eradicating the Dalish or watering down their culture), human and elf relations can progress past the point of fear and hatred.

[Br3admax]

They're fully allowed to leave the ghetto and establish elsewhere, they're not being being kept there by any laws which tell them it's mandatory.

I don't think you know what an impoverished minority is. Safe to say things don't just get better because you want them to or work hard enough.