195 réponses à ce sujet

[pengwin21]

That one generation of that village folk tormented the Dalish and Zathrian chose the wrong kind of punishment which is infectious. The Dalish were really provoked this time but Zathrian made a mistake in making a reaction. It would have been justified if he killed all of them but he did something worse. They deserved did but the new humans getting infected didn't.

Edit: and as Xil said the werewolves tried the same thing. They deliberately targeted innocent Dalish rather than Zathrian himself.

 

How would they have targeted Zathrian himself without attacking the camp directly?

[Lulupab]

How would they have targeted Zathrian himself without attacking the camp directly?

Its not like they killed the, they bit them and left them to be taken by curse. Obviously Zathrian was not the target, the goal was to torment the dalish.

[pengwin21]

Its not like they killed the, they bit them and left them to be taken by curse. Obviously Zathrian was not the target, the goal was to torment the dalish.

 

Zathrian ignored the werewolves according to the Lady, they had to get him to address the issue somehow. You didn't answer my question I notice.

[Xilizhra]

Zathrian ignored the werewolves according to the Lady, they had to get him to address the issue somehow. You didn't answer my question I notice.

Attempt to contact the Dalish clan as a whole. Barring the outstanding luck of running into a Grey Warden who'd be willing to talk, it's the most likely method to actually work; killing members of Zathrian's clan will only make Zathrian want even more revenge, and it solves nothing (except, again, by outstanding luck thanks to the Blight happening at the same time).

[Steelcan]

Wasn't the idea that they force Zathrian to cure them so he can cure his own people too?

[Cainhurst Crow]

Which is why both Zathrian and the werewolves are at fault for wanting to kill/inflict irreparable harm to those who didn't have anything to do with their suffering. I really wish there was a way to call out the werewolves for being guilty of exactly the same thing as Zathrian in their attacks on the Dalish, but I can't side with Zathrian thanks to his badly circular reasoning when it comes to his wanting to kill all the werewolves, so I just have to let the werewolves get off scot-free with the ending of the curse. Bah.

 

If you can forgive the dalish for resenting humans, I'm sure you can forgive the werewolves for resenting the dalish. After all, after being told no, I won't stop the constant burning pain and mind shredding rage I've afflicted you with cause my feelings were hurt, I'm pretty sure anyone would snap and go to the greatests extremes to seek revenge.

 

I personally hold that revenge is one of the most petty things you can do, for it is cyclical and will create more suffering in its wake to propagate more revenge from those who were hurt in your quest for vengeance.  I understand the desire, sometimes the need for vengeance, but I also understand its consequences and the horribleness of it.

 

Zatharan didn't, and his clan payed the price for it.

[pengwin21]

Attempt to contact the Dalish clan as a whole. Barring the outstanding luck of running into a Grey Warden who'd be willing to talk, it's the most likely method to actually work; killing members of Zathrian's clan will only make Zathrian want even more revenge, and it solves nothing (except, again, by outstanding luck thanks to the Blight happening at the same time).

 

This sounds implausible. The Keeper of the clan makes the decisions and Zathrian would say that either the werewolves are lying or deserved what they got. Do you think the clan would side with their Keeper or a random group of wolves that seem like savage beasts?

[Xilizhra]

If you can forgive the dalish for resenting humans, I'm sure you can forgive the werewolves for resenting the dalish. After all, after being told no, I won't stop the constant burning pain and mind shredding rage I've afflicted you with cause my feelings were hurt, I'm pretty sure anyone would snap and go to the greatests extremes to seek revenge.

 

I personally hold that revenge is one of the most petty things you can do, for it is cyclical and will create more suffering in its wake to propagate more revenge from those who were hurt in your quest for vengeance.  I understand the desire, sometimes the need for vengeance, but I also understand its consequences and the horribleness of it.

 

Zatharan didn't, and his clan payed the price for it.

Indeed. The werewolves succumbed to revenge in exactly the same way that Zathrian did, but wind up paying no price for it. I think what bugs me the most is that it's not even just something that's spiritually similar to what Zathrian did; it's identical to what Zathrian did.

[Drasanil]

This sounds implausible. The Keeper of the clan makes the decisions and Zathrian would say that either the werewolves are lying or deserved what they got. Do you think the clan would side with their Keeper or a random group of wolves that seem like savage beasts?

 

 

In this case who knows, Zathrian had been coning his own clan into believing he had regained the elves' ancient immortality. They might be quite horrified to discover just how he did it and that he was peddling false hope. 

[TK514]

In this case who knows, Zathrian had been coning his own clan into believing he had regained the elves' ancient immortality. They might be quite horrified to discover just how he did it and that he was peddling false hope. 

 

Hmm, I don't actually remember their reaction when they found out.  Just that his apprentice took over and the Clan said they'd help.

[Drasanil]

Hmm, I don't actually remember their reaction when they found out.  Just that his apprentice took over and the Clan said they'd help.

 

Its quite possible Lanaya kept it quiet. IIRC we didn't exactly run around giving everyone in the clan a detailed summary of what happened.

[pengwin21]

If the werewolves primarily motivation was revenge against all the Dalish, wouldn't they have attacked them directly rather than just biting a few hunters? Biting the hunters was to force Zathrian to end the curse to save his own people.

[Drasanil]

If the werewolves primarily motivation was revenge against all the Dalish, wouldn't they have attacked them directly rather than just biting a few hunters? Biting the hunters was to force Zathrian to end the curse to save his own people.

 

The werewolves ambushed the dalish as they moved into the region, that means they pretty much did attack the whole clan. 

[Steelcan]

The werewolves ambushed the dalish as they moved into the region, that means they pretty much did attack the whole clan. 

because they were trying to force Zathrian to cure them in order to save his own people

 

If you want them to full on slaughter the dalish you have to prod them to it

[Drasanil]

because they were trying to force Zathrian to cure them in order to save his own people

 

If you want them to full on slaughter the dalish you have to prod them to it

 

True. I'm still dubious as to the whole prospect of the werewolves' plan since it seems that for a fluke warden showing up it's exactly where it was going to go any ways. Zathrian didn't seem like he was about to budge and, barring the Lady of the Forest, the Werewolves seemed to be at the point of willing to just go in and kill everyone any ways. After all they only stopped to talk once you slaughtered your way through most of them.  

[pengwin21]

True. I'm still dubious as to the whole prospect of the werewolves' plan since it seems that for a fluke warden showing up it's exactly where it was going to go any ways. Zathrian didn't seem like he was about to budge and, barring the Lady of the Forest, the Werewolves seemed to be at the point of willing to just go in and kill everyone any ways. After all they only stopped to talk once you slaughtered your way through most of them.  

 

The Lady expected Zathrian would want to end the curse to save his own people at least, but apparently he valued revenge against random humans over his clan. Of all the crappy Keepers we've seen so far, he's probably still the worst.

[Steelcan]

The Lady expected Zathrian would want to end the curse to save his own people at least, but apparently he valued revenge against random humans over his clan. Of all the crappy Keepers we've seen so far, he's probably still the worst.

idk.... he didn't let a pride demon possess him in order to save a blood mage three IQ points from drooling

[Drasanil]

idk.... he didn't let a pride demon possess him in order to save a blood mage three IQ points from drooling

 

Zathrian was probably willing to write off the hunters as 'acceptable losses' and just not ever go back to the Bercilian. 

[TK514]

True. I'm still dubious as to the whole prospect of the werewolves' plan since it seems that for a fluke warden showing up it's exactly where it was going to go any ways. Zathrian didn't seem like he was about to budge and, barring the Lady of the Forest, the Werewolves seemed to be at the point of willing to just go in and kill everyone any ways. After all they only stopped to talk once you slaughtered your way through most of them.  

 

Hardly the werewolves fault, since bestial rage and violence was their default state thanks to the curse.  Zathrian deserves the entire blame for everything in that situation after the original crime against his children.

 

Zathrian was probably willing to write off the hunters as 'acceptable losses' and just not ever go back to the Bercilian. 

 

I've never understood why he kept going back.

[Drasanil]

 

Hardly the werewolves fault, since bestial rage and violence was their default state thanks to the curse.  Zathrian deserves the entire blame for everything in that situation after the original crime against his children.

 

Well... you could also blame the Lady for making the werewolves sentient instead of just leaving well enough alone   

 

I've never understood why he kept going back.

 

Pride? Ignorance? Pure Dickishness? Pick your poison.

[LobselVith8]

I wonder how they'll feel about Lavellan working with the Inquisition. I bet it will be mixed...seems like it puts them in a really good position to learn things and influence people, but it's also, yaknow, working with both hands of the Divine, a Tevinter mage, etc etc. So I can see them being wary, but interested in the opportunities it presents. 

 

Well, the Inquisitor is working as the head of the Inquisition, and Multiplayer indicates at least one clan (Clan Ralaferin) sends an 'emissary' (Neria, mistakenly labelled 'the Keeper' when she's actually the First) to make certain that Dalish interests aren't negated in this new organization. I can see Lavellan being viewed as the potential for positive change for the People, particularly as he (or she) could use his military might to protect the Dalish from persecution over their religious beliefs, or their free mages, or even emancipate the Dales from Orlesian control.

[LOLandStuff]

Didn't the Lady say they tried to contact Zathrian each time he passed by with the clan but was ignored so they resorted to attacking them until he showed up?

[Xilizhra]

Hardly the werewolves fault, since bestial rage and violence was their default state thanks to the curse.  Zathrian deserves the entire blame for everything in that situation after the original crime against his children.

The Lady of the Forest organized the attack after restoring their minds, and they went along with it.

 

 

Well, the Inquisitor is working as the head of the Inquisition, and Multiplayer indicates at least one clan (Clan Ralaferin) sends an 'emissary' (Neria, mistakenly labelled 'the Keeper' when she's actually the First) to make certain that Dalish interests aren't negated in this new organization. I can see Lavellan being viewed as the potential for positive change for the People, particularly as he (or she) could use his military might to protect the Dalish from persecution over their religious beliefs, or their free mages, or even emancipate the Dales from Orlesian control.

The Dalish having any stake in liberating the Dales would require them to be interested in reacquiring that piece of land... and after some thought, literally the only thing that makes it attractive is arguably its high city elf population. It's very awkwardly sandwiched between Orlais and Ferelden. I personally would prefer Arlathan, which is between Antiva (which has no standing army and is more interested in money than land) and Tevinter (which is both universally disliked and tied up with fighting the qunari; I doubt that many members of Andrastian Thedas would actively side with Tevinter over the Dalish, and some might even tacitly support a Dalish endeavor to reclaim Arlathan).

[Drasanil]

Didn't the Lady say they tried to contact Zathrian each time he passed by with the clan but was ignored so they resorted to attacking them until he showed up?

 

Yup. Not quite sure how given none of the elves seem to know about it, unless Zathrian had a habit of wandering off into the woods all on his own for no apparent reason. In which case why not just capture him and force him to undo the curse? 

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

The Lady expected Zathrian would want to end the curse to save his own people at least, but apparently he valued revenge against random humans over his clan. Of all the crappy Keepers we've seen so far, he's probably still the worst.

Id say it was a mix of petty revenge & a desire to keep his eternal life since ending the curse also kills him