195 réponses à ce sujet

[AresKeith]

idk.... he didn't let a pride demon possess him in order to save a blood mage three IQ points from drooling

 

Compared to Zathrian atleast her reason made sense to me

[Br3admax]

How is cold, just revenge less sensical than being possessed by a demon your ancestors thought could take on the Imperium? 

[LOLandStuff]

Perhaps the fact that he let it drag out this long.

[Drasanil]

Perhaps the fact that he let it drag out this long.

 

No, even that made sense from a vengeful point of view. What's really baffling, as someone else mentioned, is that Zathrian kept putting his clan in danger despite knowing the werewolves were there and not totally mindless anymore.

[Dasaed]

Hmm, I don't actually remember their reaction when they found out.  Just that his apprentice took over and the Clan said they'd help.

I don't think they really found out, Zathrian's first, Lanaya, suspected it. I don't believe she told the rest of the clan.

[LOLandStuff]

No, even that made sense from a vengeful point of view. What's really baffling, as someone else mentioned, is that Zathrian kept putting his clan in danger despite knowing the werewolves were there and not totally mindless anymore.

 

Stupid pride perhaps. And it's obviously the humans' fault and shouldn't put up with their s**t. And maybe to justify his actions. Elves die, humans deserve it even more.

And Dalish do have a bad habit of blaming those dirty shems for their problems.

[LobselVith8]

The Lady of the Forest organized the attack after restoring their minds, and they went along with it.

 

 

The Dalish having any stake in liberating the Dales would require them to be interested in reacquiring that piece of land... and after some thought, literally the only thing that makes it attractive is arguably its high city elf population. It's very awkwardly sandwiched between Orlais and Ferelden. I personally would prefer Arlathan, which is between Antiva (which has no standing army and is more interested in money than land) and Tevinter (which is both universally disliked and tied up with fighting the qunari; I doubt that many members of Andrastian Thedas would actively side with Tevinter over the Dalish, and some might even tacitly support a Dalish endeavor to reclaim Arlathan).

 

I address it more as a possible path to pursue in Inquisition, rather than an ideal solution overall. Given that TME went out of it's way to address that the elves are the majority of the Dales, Asunder mentioned that humans are leaving en mass, Briala is making plans to help all the elves, and even Celene brought up the prospect of the Dalish having lordship over Dales, I think it's within the realm of possibility that Orlesian occupied Dales could be emancipated, with the assistance of the Inquisition.

[Xilizhra]

I address it more as a possible path to pursue in Inquisition, rather than an ideal solution overall. Given that TME went out of it's way to address that the elves are the majority of the Dales, Asunder mentioned that humans are leaving en mass, Briala is making plans to help all the elves, and even Celene brought up the prospect of the Dalish having lordship over Dales, I think it's within the realm of possibility that Orlesian occupied Dales could be emancipated, with the assistance of the Inquisition.

If Briala still sees herself as Orlesian, the optimal solution would strike me as the Dales existing as an autonomous region within Orlais, governed possibly by Briala and having its own laws that could be more protective of elves. It'd be a good beginning, at least.

[The Baconer]

If Briala still sees herself as Orlesian, the optimal solution would strike me as the Dales existing as an autonomous region within Orlais, governed possibly by Briala and having its own laws that could be more protective of elves. It'd be a good beginning, at least.

 

It wouldn't be progress, because it's a mega-alienage. One that exists at the behest of greater powers.

[Xilizhra]

It wouldn't be progress, because it's a mega-alienage. One that exists at the behest of greater powers.

It's what Briala's plan is likely to lead to, as she and many followers see themselves as still being Orlesian, and not wanting to create a separate elven nation. So if there are enough elves to do that and they can actually secure the Dales, then Briala would either have to be persuaded or removed.

[Steelcan]

It's what Briala's plan is likely to lead to, as she and many followers see themselves as still being Orlesian, and not wanting to create a separate elven nation. So if there are enough elves to do that and they can actually secure the Dales, then Briala would either have to be persuaded or removed.

.............

 

what

[dragonflight288]

Attempt to contact the Dalish clan as a whole. Barring the outstanding luck of running into a Grey Warden who'd be willing to talk, it's the most likely method to actually work; killing members of Zathrian's clan will only make Zathrian want even more revenge, and it solves nothing (except, again, by outstanding luck thanks to the Blight happening at the same time).

 

According to the Lady of the Forest, they DID try to contact Zathrian. Every time his clan was there, they tried sending messages and he ignored them time and again. They spread the curse to his people to force his hand and make him lift the curse entirely because he was blaming the innocent offspring and those who were turned over the centuries for the crimes of the long-dead. 

 

I'm not defending them, because I feel they are guilty of the same thing Zathrian is, but I'm pointing out that what you suggested, according to the Lady, was tried multiple times, and Zathrian wanted nothing to do with them because he wanted to punish them eternally because he let his grief go too far. So they forced his hand.

[AresKeith]

.............

 

what

 

I don't even know

[Xilizhra]

According to the Lady of the Forest, they DID try to contact Zathrian. Every time his clan was there, they tried sending messages and he ignored them time and again. They spread the curse to his people to force his hand and make him lift the curse entirely because he was blaming the innocent offspring and those who were turned over the centuries for the crimes of the long-dead. 

 

I'm not defending them, because I feel they are guilty of the same thing Zathrian is, but I'm pointing out that what you suggested, according to the Lady, was tried multiple times, and Zathrian wanted nothing to do with them because he wanted to punish them eternally because he let his grief go too far. So they forced his hand.

Not contacting Zathrian, contacting the rest of the clan independent of Zathrian.

[The Baconer]

It's what Briala's plan is likely to lead to, as she and many followers see themselves as still being Orlesian, and not wanting to create a separate elven nation. So if there are enough elves to do that and they can actually secure the Dales, then Briala would either have to be persuaded or removed.

 

Doesn't matter whether it's founded as a separate elven nation or not, it's a mega-alienage, little better than a client state.

 

Beyond that, we don't even know if an elven state is actually Briala's plan.

[Xilizhra]

Doesn't matter whether it's founded as a separate elven nation or not, it's a mega-alienage, little better than a client state.

 

Beyond that, we don't even know if an elven state is actually Briala's plan.

True. We barely know anything at all, really.

[Tielis]

she's was been modified by the encounter with Zathrian (she talks about how he created her), so its probably impossible to say for sure

 

but I imagine she's probably a desire demon of some sort

 

I believe that the Lady is a benevolent spirit, like Wynne's, who is twisted by the binding to an earthly body, just like Anders/Vengeance.

[dragonflight288]

I believe that the Lady is a benevolent spirit, like Wynne's, who is twisted by the binding to an earthly body, just like Anders/Vengeance.

 

This is far more likely than her being a Desire Demon. Nothing at all suggests she is a demon at all. Heck, she wants to be FREED of her mortal coil, whereas other demons all want to experience what the mortal word has. 

[LobselVith8]

This is far more likely than her being a Desire Demon. Nothing at all suggests she is a demon at all. Heck, she wants to be FREED of her mortal coil, whereas other demons all want to experience what the mortal word has. 

 

The Grand Oak Tree makes reference to the disappearance of the spirit of the forest, which I suspect was the spirit who became the Lady of the Forest. I wonder if there are spirits in Dales who still reside within the wilderness.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Indeed. The werewolves succumbed to revenge in exactly the same way that Zathrian did, but wind up paying no price for it. I think what bugs me the most is that it's not even just something that's spiritually similar to what Zathrian did; it's identical to what Zathrian did.

What do you mean? Their entire existence is punishment, one created by zatharian to be inflicted upon them. They are the direct result of his vengeance, and they are the instrument by which karmatic vengeance is delivered upon him.

And besides that, most of them get slaughtered brutally by the warden and company, so their losses probably number those of zatharians clan twice over.

[Xilizhra]

What do you mean? Their entire existence is punishment, one created by zatharian to be inflicted upon them. They are the direct result of his vengeance, and they are the instrument by which karmatic vengeance is delivered upon him.

Only because that makes the fight laughably easy...

 

Seriously, I don't know of any other fights that can be literally won with a single spell (Cleanse Area/Dispel Magic).

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The Grand Oak Tree makes reference to the disappearance of the spirit of the forest, which I suspect was the spirit who became the Lady of the Forest. I wonder if there are spirits in Dales who still reside within the wilderness.

Didn't one of the devs say that there are other Dryads? If so, it would be cool to see another one, though hopefully they are as friendly as the Lady of the Forest was. 

[TK514]

The Dalish having any stake in liberating the Dales would require them to be interested in reacquiring that piece of land... and after some thought, literally the only thing that makes it attractive is arguably its high city elf population. It's very awkwardly sandwiched between Orlais and Ferelden. I personally would prefer Arlathan, which is between Antiva (which has no standing army and is more interested in money than land) and Tevinter (which is both universally disliked and tied up with fighting the qunari; I doubt that many members of Andrastian Thedas would actively side with Tevinter over the Dalish, and some might even tacitly support a Dalish endeavor to reclaim Arlathan).

 

I agree.  I think Arlathan Forest makes vastly more sense than trying to reoccupy the Dales, and for all the reasons you mention.  It has the added benefit of being considerably closer to a potential population source in the form of escaped elven slaves.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Arlathan Forest is better than the Dales territory wise for an elven state but it's still within Tevinter territory. The Imperium is weak but not so weak that minor powers can get away with carving out swaths of their land for themselves. And also when the Qunari attack, they will run right into it. If that happens it may not even last half as long as the Dales.