57 réponses à ce sujet

[Elfyoth]

Do you think our Inquisitor will have a chance to make the Dales an Independent state? Becouse of the Orlisean civil war and the mage-templar war and the Breach, In my opinnion the Dalish for example cant win Orlais when its united, but now? Now I think its the perfect time for the Elves to use the chaos to create an Elven independent state, I think it will be about who we side in the civil war, as a deal.

[Who Knows]

Hopefully, although I could see them waiting for another game in the series to more specifically center around elven stuff. In the same way that I expect qunari conflict with mainland Thedas to be the center of a game later, rather than Inquisition.

[BronzTrooper]

tbh, I'm not sure if the Dalish could keep land for themselves for long without an alliance with an Andrastian nation (most likely Ferelden, especially with Alistair as king).  If not Ferelden, then maybe Nevarra or Rivain.  imo, the best options for an alliance would be Nevarra or Ferelden considering how neither has any love for Orlais and the Dalish claiming the Dales for themselves would be a serious black-eye to Orlais, something Ferelden and Nevarra could get behind.

 

That does get me thinking about the boon to the Dalish at the end of DA:O.  Is there anything saying what exactly happened to the land Alistair/Anora granted the Dalish?  I mean, it should still be there, right?

[Who Knows]

tbh, I'm not sure if the Dalish could keep land for themselves for long without an alliance with an Andrastian nation (most likely Ferelden, especially with Alistair as king).  If not Ferelden, then maybe Nevarra or Rivain.  imo, the best options for an alliance would be Nevarra or Ferelden considering how neither has any love for Orlais and the Dalish claiming the Dales for themselves would be a serious black-eye to Orlais, something Ferelden and Nevarra could get behind.
 
That does get me thinking about the boon to the Dalish at the end of DA:O.  Is there anything saying what exactly happened to the land Alistair/Anora granted the Dalish?  I mean, it should still be there, right?

https://www.youtube....fP2gaFU&t=1m40s

 
Apparently things didn't go well, but Alistair wants to makes up for it. I doubt Anora would do the same thing...

[Elfyoth]

SPOILER!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In the Masked Empire I think Celene have offerd the Dalish clan to get her past the forest in exchange to Dales independence, most likely she was liyng but.. who knows?

[BronzTrooper]

https://www.youtube....fP2gaFU&t=1m40s

 
Apparently things didn't go well, but Alistair wants to makes up for it. I doubt Anora would do the same thing...

 

Hmm... he's pretty vague about it... I wonder why... 

[Who Knows]

Hmm... he's pretty vague about it... I wonder why... 

Maybe it'll be revealed in DA:I with a dalish warden...although let's just say there's reason to think the boon selected in DA:O won't matter.

[Elfyoth]

Or maybe you'll be able to remake the boon...

[TheLittleBird]

tbh, I'm not sure if the Dalish could keep land for themselves for long without an alliance with an Andrastian nation (most likely Ferelden, especially with Alistair as king).  If not Ferelden, then maybe Nevarra or Rivain.  imo, the best options for an alliance would be Nevarra or Ferelden considering how neither has any love for Orlais and the Dalish claiming the Dales for themselves would be a serious black-eye to Orlais, something Ferelden and Nevarra could get behind.

 

 

That's what I was thinking. Suppose the conflict in Orlais gives us the chance to support the Dalish and get them their own independent land in the Dales... when things settle down in human nations, I can foresee them hitting the Dales and reclaiming it for their own. So I'd prefer to give the Dalish their own land with support from someone else, which would likely have to be the Ferelden king or queen or Empress Celene, if she's still up for that after The Masked Empire (I think she is, though), over granting them independence through the use of violence.

[Elfyoth]

Imo there are some ways for the Elves to retake the Dales

 

 

1) Signing a treaty with the Dales by preasure from Fereldan  and other nations that don't like Orlais and wish it to be weakend, Fereldan especially if Alistar is on the throne, and more especially if the Warden is a Dalish, this forging of an alliance will weaken Orlais and not just that will bring to a situation that Orlais don't border with Fereldan which means less fear of another Orlesiean occopation of Fereldan, or a war but not within Fereldan's borders.

 

2) Creating a powerful alliance that will take the Dales by force think how much power will be an Elven-Mage Alliance if only the mages and templars are tearing the world apart, this will be an opotunity for the Elves to retake the Dales, or even more powerful Alliance Elven-Mage-Fereldan Alliance will be so powerful that it'd be able to even bring an end to the Orlesian Empire.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I've always been against retaking the Dales by force. I think it's totally impractical in the long term (and probably the short term too). An elven state should be somewhere else.

[LobselVith8]

That does get me thinking about the boon to the Dalish at the end of DA:O.  Is there anything saying what exactly happened to the land Alistair/Anora granted the Dalish?  I mean, it should still be there, right?

 

In addition to what was previously stated, Mike Laidlaw mentioned on twitter that the Hinterlands won't be any different post-Dalish Boon; it seems like it'll be the same, in essence run and populated by humans as a part of Redcliffe territory.

 

As for the Dales, I'd like to see an option available to help the elves reclaim their kingdom, particularly given the inclusion to play as an elven Inquisitor. TME made a point of addressing that the majority of the population is elven, Asunder addressed most humans are leaving it en mass due to the civil war, and the concept of elven sovereignty over the Dales was brought up in TME.

 

I think it would be realistic if the elven main character could help the elves dislodge the Orlesians from power.

[Just My Moniker]

Definitely want to see the Dales as an independent kingdom, ruled by the Dalish! And not just a stagnant kingdom, but actively conquering the rest of Orlais  (Unrealistic? Maybe, but think of the MAYHEEEEEEEEEMMMMM! )

[Jedi Master of Orion]

But "the Dales" in the present day is just Halamshiral and nearby land. The Dales that used to be an independent elven kingdom seemed to take up much more territory. Even elves could defeat Orleasian armies around that one city, their state would still be completely encircled by Orlais.

[CapivaRasgor]

As much as I would love to see this, I think it is as likely as having an independent Circle of Magi, which is unlikely. I think the closer we'll get is having the Dales as a protectorate or vassal duchy/arling of Orlais/Ferelden, which could be seen as a step up for them. Besides this whole issue can potentially turn into a Thedosian version of the "Palestine belongs to arabs or jews." as the Dales previously belonged to the elves, if giving the lands back to them comes into play than what do we do with the humans who have lived there for centuries and now also call the land home? Now, I know this isn't a perfect comparison since the Dales elven population tops the human one (I think), but I believe I've made a valid point.

[Roamingmachine]

Might makes right in both our world and in Thedas. An elven state established by treaties and promises will face an invasion the moment it becomes convenient for its human neighbours to do so. The elves need to give the human nations such a forceful kick between the legs that they will be feeling it for generations and the chaos of the demon invasion is the perfect time to do so. Yes, the humans will still outnumber the elves afterwards but they will think long and hard of the cost before starting a fight again.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Might makes right in both our world and in Thedas. An elven state established by treaties and promises will face an invasion the moment it becomes convenient for its human neighbours to do so. The elves need to give the human nations such a forceful kick between the legs that they will be feeling it for generations and the chaos of the demon invasion is the perfect time to do so. Yes, the humans will still outnumber the elves afterwards but they will think long and hard of the cost before starting a fight again.

 

Even if that weren't kind of immoral, all that would do is bring much greater human retaliation back down on the elves. Elves simply can't muster the kind of strength humans can. They have neither the numbers nor the military might for it.

[Elfyoth]

What about Arlathan? It's unpopulated by humans only a forest..

[Elfyoth]

Although if it's Arlathan I guess it'll be 100% in future DA games.

[LobselVith8]

As much as I would love to see this, I think it is as likely as having an independent Circle of Magi, which is unlikely. I think the closer we'll get is having the Dales as a protectorate or vassal duchy/arling of Orlais/Ferelden, which could be seen as a step up for them. Besides this whole issue can potentially turn into a Thedosian version of the "Palestine belongs to arabs or jews." as the Dales previously belonged to the elves, if giving the lands back to them comes into play than what do we do with the humans who have lived there for centuries and now also call the land home? Now, I know this isn't a perfect comparison since the Dales elven population tops the human one (I think), but I believe I've made a valid point.

 

Cameron Lee said the player can side with the mages or the templars, and help win the war for that side. In essence, the Inquisitor siding with the mages fighting for their autonomy from the Chantry and the templars would be supporting an independent Circle. I don't see why it's unlikely - otherwise, making a choice in the Mage-Templar War would be pointless if it simply lead to the same outcome.

 

Specifically, Lee said, "You can bring an end to the conflict between the mages and the templars once and for all very early on in the game. You can align with one of those." 1:40 mark.

 

 

As far as the issue goes, I think it's more about giving the elves a place where they can worship their gods freely without persecution (in the case of the Dalish) or live without worrying about being purged down to the defenseless men, women, and children (as in the case of the Denerim Alienage, where even the orphanage was sacked, or the thousands killed in Halamshiral).

 

Interestingly, since Gisharel's historical entry addresses the Dales was the land south of modern day Orlais, that would mean it's territory would lead to the entrance to Orzammar in the Frostback Mountains (close to Halamshiral) - the source of lyrium, which would be invaluable to the Inquisition once the templars or mages become part of the new militant arm of the organization. A mutually beneficial arrangement could be brokered that would be in the best interests of both parties, especially if there is a Dalish presence in an autonomous Dales.

[CapivaRasgor]

Cameron Lee said the player can side with the mages or the templars, and help win the war for that side. In essence, the Inquisitor siding with the mages fighting for their autonomy from the Chantry and the templars would be supporting an independent Circle. I don't see why it's unlikely - otherwise, making a choice in the Mage-Templar War would be pointless if it simply lead to the same outcome.

Specifically, Lee said, "You can bring an end to the conflict between the mages and the templars once and for all very early on in the game. You can align with one of those." 1:40 mark.




As far as the issue goes, I think it's more about giving the elves a place where they can worship their gods freely without persecution (in the case of the Dalish) or live without worrying about being purged down to the defenseless men, women, and children (as in the case of the Denerim Alienage, where even the orphanage was sacked, or the thousands killed in Halamshiral).

Interestingly, since Gisharel's historical entry addresses the Dales was the land south of modern day Orlais, that would mean it's territory would lead to the entrance to Orzammar in the Frostback Mountains (close to Halamshiral) - the source of lyrium, which would be invaluable to the Inquisition once the templars or mages become part of the new militant arm of the organization. A mutually beneficial arrangement could be brokered that would be in the best interests of both parties, especially if there is a Dalish presence in an autonomous Dales.

For the record, when I said independent I meant as in not attached to a faction. I remember Cameron mentions bringing one of both groups into the Inquisition, which is hardly the same as an idependent Circle as they would still be tied to the Inquisition.. but thats me, I'm actually hoping to be proved wrong.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

What about Arlathan? It's unpopulated by humans only a forest..

 

It's A) Tevinter territory and directly in the path of a hypothetical Qunari invasion. There are potentially decent places in the north of Thedas, but any elven state there would all be living on borrowed time.

[LobselVith8]

For the record, when I said independent I meant as in not attached to a faction. I remember Cameron mentions bringing one of both groups into the Inquisition, which is hardly the same as an idependent Circle as they would still be tied to the Inquisition.. but thats me, I'm actually hoping to be proved wrong.

 

I understand. I think there's hope for a positive outcome. Generally speaking, the Circle being aligned with the Inquisition doesn't necessarily mean that the Inquisition governs the Circle, and I don't think it would make sense for the mages to be fighting for their autonomy, only to side with the Inquisitor on the condition of becoming subservient once again.

[Elfyoth]

@Jedi, I know it's in the Tevinter Imperium, and a lot of pepole prefer Elves than Tevinters... Even Orlais.

[Icy Magebane]

The only way I see the elves retaking the Dales is if they form an alliance with Ferelden.  While it's true that Ferelden would benefit from having a large buffer zone between their own nation and Orlais, there is no guarantee that they would agree to this... it seems likely, but it might depend on the ruler.  I imagine that having Ferelden soldiers stationed on the western border of the Dales would be a valuable addition to the Dalish forces and a deterrent to any attempts by Orlais to retake the province.  But again, this depends on whether they agree to such an alliance in the first place... it sounds like a great idea to me, but I'm not on the writing staff... xD 

 

We'll see what happens in Inquisition.