18 réponses à ce sujet

[PracticalKat]

I love bards, because you can combine spell-casting with melee capability AND have some skills, so you don't have to choose  But I battle to hit things with a pure bard, so I'm trying a bard / barbarian in the OC.  

 

Race is human, and stats are:

Str:     16

Dex:   10

Con:   14

Wis:    10

Int:      14

Char:  14

 

I've just been through the Ruins with the lizardlings, and this toon takes much more damage than a bard / fighter with similar stats except 14 Dex, 12 Con and 8 Wis.  Both were wearing scale mail.

 

Is a Barbarian with less than 14 Dex just a bad idea and should I reroll?  Or is it just a matter of toughing it out, and buying decent armour and a shield? 

[Arkalezth]

It's mostly a matter of levelling up. Combat at low levels is a pain in the ass because numbers are low and it's all pretty random. A warrior type in full plate is going to have an easier time than most other classes, but things even out once you get some levels under your belt.

Eventually, bard becomes one of the toughest classes in the game. With the attributes you listed, I'd suggest a fighter level (though barbarian works too if you prefer it) and the feat battle caster. If you go pure bard, you may want a higher (~14) dexterity, since you'll be restricted to light armour. Other than that, yeah, just keep at it, level up and look out for better gear, and remember that you have fighter type companions that can take the front line until you toughen up.

[PracticalKat]

Agree about Fighter being more effective for that stat spread.  The reason I went Barb and not Fighter was that I've been looking at a NWN 1 build that synergises the Cha in Bard and Barbarian like so:

http://home.comcast....uild211862.html

 

I wanted to see how it might play at lower levels, and tweaked Str up and Cha down.  I'm coming to the conclusion that I need to max Dex with gear for it to be much fun.  

[Arkalezth]

NWN 1 build that synergises the Cha in Bard and Barbarian

How so? Terrifying rage? I don't see any other use for CHA on a barbarian, and that feat isn't available in NWN2.

Either way, a single barbarian level allows you to use basic rage. The greater version needs 10 more levels and is not that "greater", so I'd focus mostly on bard. Maybe something along these lines: http://nwn2db.com/build/?29643

If you're gonna reach epic levels, you could try something like 16-18 bard/11 barbarian, but don't expect the extra barbarian levels to make a great difference.

Regarding DEX, as I said, the heavier the armour, the less DEX you need. A couple of points of AC become mostly irrelevant once you have Mirror Image, Displacement, etc.

[PracticalKat]

Yes, Terrifying Rage was the aim.  Didn't know that it was gone in NWN2.  Cha also drives Taunt and Intimidate, and I've never used them much so wanted to give it a spin.   

 

OK, just had a look at your build and it makes sense to bring in Ftr early for the feat and Barb when Bard has pushed up effective AC. Disappointed that Barb doesn't have more of a distinctive "flavour".

 

Thanks!  

[Arkalezth]

By the way.



(The image looks a bit too big. Can the size be adjusted?).

[Dann-J]

One of the first characters I took through the OC was a 'bardbarian', created with a view to making him a Red Dragon Disciple. He was more barbarian than bard though, and had more dexterity and less intelligence than the stats mentioned in the first post.

 

I generally avoid scalemail as a medium armour option (along with hide armour). With a DEX of 10 you might as well be wearing a chain shirt - it provides the same amount of protection as scailmail, with only half the armour check penalty. A breastplate is also a better option than scailmail.

[PracticalKat]

@Ark:         

 

@Dann: Quite agree about the armour - scale was the only one available at the time.  And a chain shirt also doesn't cause spell failure!

[Dann-J]

@Ark:         

 

@Dann: Quite agree about the armour - scale was the only one available at the time.  And a chain shirt also doesn't cause spell failure!

 

Spell failure in medium armour can be avoided by taking the Battle Caster feat if you're a bard or warlock. Once you get your hands on some mithral fullplate and a mithral heavy shield, you should be tanked up nicely AND have no spell failure.

[GCoyote]

Spell failure in medium armour can be avoided by taking the Battle Caster feat if you're a bard or warlock. Once you get your hands on some mithral fullplate and a mithral heavy shield, you should be tanked up nicely AND have no spell failure.

What he said.

NWN2 rewards thoughtful crafting and this is especially true for Bards and mithral. Sand can make you some very nice gear if you plan a bit. And IIRC the user crafted mithral heavy shield has a better arcane spell failure stat that the ones you can buy. Or the memory could be playing tricks on me but that is what save games are for. 

 

Hope that helps,

Have fun.

[Jfoxtail]

I have always loved this combo of classes.

 

In the old days (2nd ed. Baldurs Gate)  there was a Skald kit for Bards which was most everyone's favorite I would suggest. It amounted to about the same thing in my opinion : Bard Barbarian. Norse 

 

Depending upon what your want for your character role play - More handsome Wulfgar with a singing voice so to speak. Or Ossian of heroic fame is my role play model. I usually select a background "description" from the Icewind Dales to further flush out the concept.

 

Every time I play this multi-class I usually take 5 Bard 5 Barbarian in sequence... just till I get Improved Uncanny Dodge as I recall (great feat)

 

Then I go heavy Bard and Red Dragon Disciple. 

 

There are many great suggestions above but I too would add (my preferences):

 

(I like the stat spread indicated, although many others may indicate to minimize Wis to pad other stats).

 

1) Increase Dex by

 

2) Dropping Str to say 14

 

3) You will get Bulls Str as a spell soon enough with your Bard Levels so you can buff...

 

4) ...and as you add RDD levels you  will get Str boosts through progressions...

 

5) .. you can then decide to build STR or CHA (or potentially both) as you progress - Str for more melee orientated Cha for more caster flavour.

 

 

In the "early" Official Campaign allow Bevil or Khelgar to rush ahead while you pause to sing for a second... then attack as the secondary suprise damage dealer.

 

Later on as you build your Str... with RDD, buffs and gear and a two handed weapon ... you will deliver a lot of damage

[Naeryna]

I think best idea will be go archer bard/bard, with longsword just in case enemy get pass your tanks.

 

 

I once strongly believed in bard with longsword, not anymore.

[Loki_999]

I love the Skald concept (Barb/Bard) but its hard to make something viable, although for the official campaigns you can generally get away with almost anything.

 

However, if you ever want to see some fun NWN2 Barb options (including Terrifying Rage and an improved Thundering Rage), come visit our server (Sigil: City of Doors).

 

I created two paths for Barbarians to take (background feat - need to take Barb at level 1 as well to get the option).  Totem Barb and Tribal Barb. They open up some new feats.  The Tribal Barb gets access to Terrifying Rage, combined with Thundering Rage and pumping Intimidate (both feats work off this skill) and with some Bard levels, that could make a nice Skald.

 

More info here: http://sigil-nwn2.wi.../wiki/Barbarian

[Arkalezth]

You can complete the OC with anything, play whatever you find fun, blah blah. That said:

Mechanically, the best type of bard is nearly pure, melee (which benefits party members too, as you and your inspirations will be usually closer to them) STR based and with just enough CHA to cast spells (no need for more than 16). Caster may be viable (emphasis on "may", as it depends on what enemies you're facing, etc.), but far worse overall. RDD cuts spellcasting and song progressions so it's generally not such a good idea.

This may be useful: http://nwn2db.com/build/?164142

Uncanny dodge is bugged and doesn't work, at all, though it's fixed on a few servers.

[Loki_999]

I once went all out on CHA and made a pure caster/summoner bard (with Augment Summoning naturally).  Pumped plenty of points into heal as well so didn't waste spells on healing.  It worked ok in a PW setting as long as you have a party, and probably would work ok for the campaigns as well.

[Arkalezth]

Well, the OC has a lot of undead, and those are usually immune to mind-affecting effects. Since many bard spells are mind-affecting, that doesn't leave a lot of offensive spells to cast.

Now, can you complete the OC with a caster bard? Absolutely. Like I said above, you can also complete it with a commoner, but melee bards are still way better overall.

[Dann-J]

Well, the OC has a lot of undead, and those are usually immune to mind-affecting effects. Since many bard spells are mind-affecting, that doesn't leave a lot of offensive spells to cast.
 

 

You can always heal them to death.

[Dann-J]

Now, can you complete the OC with a caster bard? Absolutely. Like I said above, you can also complete it with a commoner...

 

That actually sounds like it might be a fun challenge:

http://www.giantitp....mmoner-Handbook

[Arkalezth]

The PW Dragoncoast has a commoner class:

http://dragoncoast.o...20.html#msg8120