236 réponses à ce sujet

[N172]

The father does matter genetically: http://www.youtube.c...=youtu.be&t=29s

[Valmar]

One of the Asari NPC's never knew her Salarian father, but she acts like a Salarian; talks fast, and is very judgmental about the "pureblood" mother and her dead children.

 

Not sure I can recall the one you're referring to. One of the two Asari talking about the pureblood on Illium? I don't remember anything about her having a salarian father. I remember an Asari with a batarian father, though. However, to be honest, it has been a while since I played ME2 and don't necessarily remember all the finer details.

 

I believe the father's DNA can have some effect on how the kid turns out but its still completely genetically the mother's DNA just being randomized. Think of it like the RNG in ME3's MP packs. All of it is random but different packs offer you a chance to get something different than the others. All while still being random. All the traits the mother pass to the daughter are things possible within the original Asari's dna - nothing new is added from the father.

 

Support for this is the fact that Asari born with a father vorcha are lactose intolerant. Not because they use the vorcha's DNA but because the random genetic map the vorcha make for the asari take them down the path of their own genetics that lead to being lactose intolerant. If that makes sense.

 

 

But isn't all DNA just dependent on selective coding anyway, hence why things like recessive genes exist, and why familial hereditary traits can skip generations? So, aspects of your own self are still used in creating the child, which makes the DNA question of Asari reproduction a little irrelevant, since Asari children can still "inherit" genetic traits from the "father".

 

I'm not a geneticist and I've not studied biology since I left school four years ago, so take what I say with a grain of salt. No idea if what I'm saying is legit or not.

 

This is probably too beyond my head to really understand but it is said that the Asari take nothing, genetically, from the father. It is always the mother's DNA that is used, its just being randomized to make the kid by using the partner as a roadmap for their own gene randomization. So they technically cannot inherit anything from the father because nothing of the father is being passed along. It's all from the mother. However you could argue that the mothers genes only randomized into the genes that they are because the father provided the map.

 

"An asari provides two copies of her own genes to her offspring, which is always an asari, regardless of the species or sex of the "father", and in the case that the offspring is of two asari, the father is the one who does not give birth. The second set of genes is altered in a unique process called melding, also known as the joining."

 

It is always the Asari genes being used, none of the father. I believe one way to describe it is that they use use other species as maps that lead their own genes to unlocking certain embedded potential within their own DNA. In a weird way the Asari that has the child is both the mother AND the father since her genes are what go into the kid, with one being altered to play the role of the father. If they were able to meld themselves I wonder if this would lead to a clone... probably not if the second gene randomizes itself even when its their own being used as the guideline. Or more likely they cannot map using their own which is what prevents them from giving themselves kids in the first place.

[General TSAR]

Like Sten bluntly states: "Disgusting."

[Reorte]

Not sure I can recall the one you're referring to. One of the two Asari talking about the pureblood on Illium? I don't remember anything about her having a salarian father. I remember an Asari with a batarian father, though. However, to be honest, it has been a while since I played ME2 and don't necessarily remember all the finer details.

There's an asari and salarian talking on Illium, and IIRC she calls him "dad" and they talk about her mother.

[Valmar]

Yes, I know about those two. However that doesn't fit with Myron's description. He said the Asari didn't know her salarian father and in the instance you just described its very clear the asari know's her salarian dad because she's talking to him. See what I mean?

 

I don't remember the one Myron is talking about. Any ideas?

[Voragoras]

This is probably too beyond my head to really understand but it is said that the Asari take nothing, genetically, from the father. It is always the mother's DNA that is used, its just being randomized to make the kid by using the partner as a roadmap for their own gene randomization. So they technically cannot inherit anything from the father because nothing of the father is being passed along. It's all from the mother. However you could argue that the mothers genes only randomized into the genes that they are because the father provided the map.

 

Yes, but my point is that DNA in general is just a set of switches, with only a select few being turned on for any one person, and, in gendered species, that's determined by the DNA of both parents. There can be a gene for blue eyes at the same time as being one for brown eyes, but any one person can obviously only have one eye colour at a time (heterochromia notwithstanding). The only reason we have both mother and father is because our reproductive systems only contain half of the required DNA on their own, so we need to combine.

 

Therefore, if Asari possess all of these switches on their own already, waiting to be selected, and the traits of the father determines which get turned on... What's the issue? It's still the same process, the father is still contributing to the DNA selection, but it's just that the mother already has the complete set.

 

Again, not a geneticist. These are imprecise and potentially inaccurate terms that I'm using to represent what I understand to be true.

[Valmar]

Yes, but my point is that DNA in general is just a set of switches, with only a select few being turned on for any one person, and, in gendered species, that's determined by the DNA of both parents. There can be a gene for blue eyes at the same time as being one for brown eyes, but any one person can obviously only have one eye colour at a time (heterochromia notwithstanding). The only reason we have both mother and father is because our reproductive systems only contain half of the required DNA on their own, so we need to combine.

 

Therefore, if Asari possess all of these switches on their own already, waiting to be selected, and the traits of the father determines which get turned on... What's the issue? It's still the same process, the father is still contributing to the DNA selection, but it's just that the mother already has the complete set.

 

Again, not a geneticist. These are imprecise and potentially inaccurate terms that I'm using to represent what I understand to be true.

 

An interesting perspective. Though the fact that the process is still random, for me, takes away from the illusion of the father DNA having anything special to do with the child.

 

Honestly, if not for the vorcha, I would completely mark out there being ANY influence from the father. Everything in the lore tells us they don't use anything from the father and its all randomized. Then they come around and make vorcha offspring allergic to dairy. Quite the curve ball. Though perhaps we're not meant to take Mordin's comment with such absolutism. Consider that the Adrat Yakshi only come from pureblood unions (asari-asari). It's a rare condition that only happens when the father is also asari yet never when it is alien. AY, however, is still rare regardless. I believe the wiki says its something like 1%.

 

It is possible that 'normally' Asari are never intolerant and the only thing that brings that along is being the offspring of a vorcha father yet at the sametime is not ALWAYS the case. Perhaps, just as AY only happens with other Asari (yet is rare), being allergic to dairy is only something that can happen to asari-vorcha offspring. Plus, if I recall correctly, the line that he says this in is him humming/singing a lyric to a song. Which adds to the credibility of the assumption that the statement shouldn't necessarily be viewed as an absolute outcome. A few liberties could be taken with the statement simply for the sake of making a verse, we could be taking it way too literally.

 

Personally, I prefer viewing it this way. Mainly because literally everything else in the lore tells us the mother's dna is randomized and no father DNA is used. Viewing the asari-vorcha thing literally, to me, seems to contradict the earlier lore. You then either have to view the lore about Asari mating in a different perspective with added speculation to explain it or, alternatively, view the offending line of dialogue in a different perspective. It's easier to make the asari-vorcha line work in the context of the mating lore than it is to make the mating lore fit into the asari-vorcha scenario, if that makes any sense.

[Voragoras]

An interesting perspective. Though the fact that the process is still random, for me, takes away from the illusion of the father DNA having anything special to do with the child.

 

But regular DNA is random anyway, in terms of what biological switches get turned on and which don't. There's some prioritisation in terms of some genes being stronger than others and overriding them, iirc, but there might be something like that with Asari as well, and the Codex/Lore doesn't go into enough detail to extrapolate whether or not this is true.

 

So, like the following example:

Human: Father and Mother have half the required DNA, then combine to make Child's DNA. Child's DNA determined by both.

Asari: Mother has full DNA, Father crates the paradigm in which the Child's DNA is generated. Child's DNA determined by both.

 

Not requiring two halves of DNA seems like a fairly arbitrary issue to have with Asari reproduction, especially when the process still works pretty much the same as our own does. (Again, not a geneticist.)

[Valmar]

It's more of a feeling than it is cold hard details. Few people are going to delve that deeply into it to. They're going to see that none of the DNA is theirs and thats that. You couldn't even prove who the 'father' is with Asari yet DNA is a dead giveaway for other species.

 

I'm still skeptical to the father having any significant relation to the outcome of the child. Daughters of Krogan definitely aren't going to pick up any of their physical traits. Daughters of hanar aren't going to pick up any traits. Yes, humans have more compatible bits that can be theoretically picked up (eyes, nose, facial structure) but we're given no reason to believe these types of things are passed on from the father. Instead we're told that they get nothing from the father and none of the DNA is used, period.

[Voragoras]

It's more of a feeling than it is cold hard details. Few people are going to delve that deeply into it to. They're going to see that none of the DNA is theirs and thats that. You couldn't even prove who the 'father' is with Asari yet DNA is a dead giveaway for other species.

 

I'm still skeptical to the father having any significant relation to the outcome of the child. Daughters of Krogan definitely aren't going to pick up any of their physical traits. Daughters of hanar aren't going to pick up any traits. Yes, humans have more compatible bits that can be theoretically picked up (eyes, nose, facial structure) but we're given no reason to believe these types of things are passed on from the father. Instead we're told that they get nothing from the father and none of the DNA is used, period.

 

But in the Mass Effect verse, the feeling is that the child is genetically theirs, hence all the rumours and misconceptions about fathering a child with one.

 

Also, that's the same with any cross-species reproduction. You can't have a kid with a Turian and then expect the kid to have human eyes in a Turian carapace, because it doesn't work like that (and tbh you probably couldn't have a kid with a Turian anyway). With an Asari, your DNA does take part in determining the DNA of the child, just the same as it does with another human, only your DNA is working from a different roadmap.

 

You could probably expect a Krogan/Asari child to have an Asari physiology, but be more violent/aggressive/temperamental, and their features to be more "Krogan-like", such as tougher skin/ridges and a deeper voice, whereas a Salarian/Asari child might have wider eyes and a narrower face.

 

It's the same, again. Your DNA affects your child's appearance, but you don't expect your child to be an identical clone of either you and the other parent

[Valmar]

But in the Mass Effect verse, the feeling is that the child is genetically theirs, hence all the rumours and misconceptions about fathering a child with one.

 

 

The reason people in ME feel the kid is genetically there's is merely a matter of the drastically different biology and cultural differences. It's the same reason we all associate the Asari as being female even though they don't actually have a concept of gender within their own society. We look at them from the perspective of our own species. For us to have a child with an Asari we just associate it with being genetically ours because that is how having kids works for us. It is how we perceive it. Which is fine, I don't care how people view their Asari kids, I was only speaking from a technical, scientific perspective. It is fact, in ME, that no DNA is taken from the father. It is not genetically theirs, it is always the mother's. How they choose to feel about it is an entirely different matter.

 

There's perhaps a big philosophical debate in there somewhere about what makes the kid yours, but thats not a subject I wanna touch. None of the DNA is that of the fathers, period. Even if the randomized Asari dna could give the offspring the father's eyes or nose, it still technically isn't the fathers DNA. For some reason this reminds of Miranda and her situation of being 'birthed' by solely her father's DNA. It wasn't entirely his DNA, since she isn't a clone, but it was still based around a modified version of it. Does that make her his daughter or an imperfect clone? Dun dun dun.

 

You could probably expect a Krogan/Asari child to have an Asari physiology, but be more violent/aggressive/temperamental, and their features to be more "Krogan-like", such as tougher skin/ridges and a deeper voice, whereas a Salarian/Asari child might have wider eyes and a narrower face.

 

It's still speculation, though. All we know for certain is that they don't use the DNA of the father and that its always randomized from the mother. We're assuming this could mean Salarian-Asari offspring could have wider eyes and narrow face. We're assuming krogan offspring have tougher skin or ridges. Its never indicated to be that way in the lore.

 

The only instance where we've seen that an Asari resembles a parent is with Morinth. Which means little since she looks like the mother, whom is the only one who provided any DNA for the birth in the first place. Unless we see otherwise I'm not convince the father plays any role in appearances. Infact you could argue that there is more circumstantial evidence pointing to this definitely not being the case when you factor in all the different ways the Asari have had children where physical traits COULDN'T pass down to offspring (hanar, elcor, raditation).

[TheMyron]

I was talking about the two asari conversing not far from the "pureblood" they were talking about; one of them is speaking very fast with an attitude to boot.

 

"They should be prohibited from breeding", were some of her words. Her friend is the one who reminded that her father was Salarian; hence why she supposes she never got to know him.

 

P.S. The Father/Daughter conversation with the Salarian and the Asari, was actually between a stepfather and daughter; the Asari's real Salarian father had already passed away.

[Han Shot First]

Asari children are 100% Asari, with all of their genetic code inherited from their mothers. The role of the 'father' is just in providing a genetic map that somehow helps randomize genetic sequences inherited from the mother to create a unique individual rather than a clone. If an Asari child inherits traits similar to her father, it is only because genes inherited from her mother mimicked something in the father's genes. The child doesn't actually inherit anything from the father, however. Liara for example is not Aethyta's biological child. Similarly, if Shepard has a child with Liara she will not be his or her biological child. 100% of her genes will be inherited from Liara with Shepard's function merely being to help introduce mutations to the genes inherited from Liara, so that the child isn't her clone.

[SporkFu]

Asari children are 100% Asari, with all of their genetic code inherited from their mothers. The role of the 'father' is just in providing a genetic map that somehow helps randomize genetic sequences inherited from the mother to create a unique individual rather than a clone. If an Asari child inherits traits similar to her father, it is only because genes inherited from her mother mimicked something in the father's genes. The child doesn't actually inherit anything from the father, however. Liara for example is not Aethyta's biological child. Similarly, if Shepard has a child with Liara she will not be his or her biological child. 100% of her genes will be inherited from Liara with Shepard's function merely being to help introduce mutations to the genes inherited from Liara, so that the child isn't her clone.

And just like that the magic is gone...

J/K

Biology isn't a make or break factor in parenthood as far as I'm concerned, anyway... and I'm not suggesting that's what you were saying at all; just my own feelings on the whole matter. I still think asari are kinda hot.

[Han Shot First]

Oh, I agree that a biological connection isn't necessary to be a good father or mother to a child. It's the relationship between them that is important, not shared genes. 

 

But if a player wants an Asari child to actually inherit biological traits from Shepard, they have to dip into head canon territory. Because that isn't how Asari reproduction works in the lore. Asari aren't actually part human, or part Turian, Salarian, ect, ect.

[Reorte]

Asari children are 100% Asari, with all of their genetic code inherited from their mothers. The role of the 'father' is just in providing a genetic map that somehow helps randomize genetic sequences inherited from the mother to create a unique individual rather than a clone. If an Asari child inherits traits similar to her father, it is only because genes inherited from her mother mimicked something in the father's genes.

Perhaps it's possible that the "randomisation" isn't truly random and that similarities in the father's DNA are more slightly more likely to be selected by whatever the process is. That would probably require quite a lot of work that's way beyond what I know of genetics to make convincing though.

[N172]

Didnt Javik say something about their hair being human-alike until they mated with lizards a few generations?

[SporkFu]

Javik also said the quarians were once considered very attractive. Pity they had to start hiding behind those masks... okay maybe not in those exact words, but he's trolling the primitives.

[Han Shot First]

Ancient Asari artwork in the temple of Athame depicts them in their familiar forms, so I also think Javik was just trolling. 

 

[Valmar]

P.S. The Father/Daughter conversation with the Salarian and the Asari, was actually between a stepfather and daughter; the Asari's real Salarian father had already passed away.

 

If you really wanted to be technical neither of them were her 'real' father due to the way Asari have children.

[KaiserShep]

Ancient Asari artwork in the temple of Athame depicts them in their familiar forms, so I also think Javik was just trolling. 

 

 

I must point out that the protheans had some kinky togas back then. I mean, look at that thing. It's practically a wardrobe malfunction.

[Antmarch456]

I must point out that the protheans had some kinky togas back then. I mean, look at that thing. It's practically a wardrobe malfunction.

I would like this, but apparently there's a limit to the amount of posts you like a day.

[TheMyron]

Aethyta did say: "I've had children with Hanar, don't tell me how Asari reproduction works."

 

Guess what, she too supports my favored idea that Asari inherent the "abstract traits" (attitude/personality, etc.) of the father, while still being 100% Asari.

[Valmar]

The difference being she is speculating where as the codex provides hard facts. Using this approach we could also say that Asari control the minds of others to make them perceive them as attractive, all because one group of drunks at a party offhandedly suggested it could be the case.

 

Everything needs to be taken within context to the situation. Aethyta believes the personalty is shaped based off the father because she herself has an aggressive streak and krogan mannerisms. I say, well of course she does. She was raised by a krogan father. Children often pick up personality traits and mannerisms of their parents regardless of sharing any biological connection. This isn't news in anyway and completely explains Aethyta's situation. Meanwhile nothing else supports it, nothing.

 

Doesn't Liara disagree with her about the whole thing? You're putting far too much faith in her mother being factually correct even though there already exists a real explanation for her situation that has nothing to do with what she's suggesting.

[Mordokai]

I still think asari are kinda hot.

 

Well, you'd be weird not to...

 

 

I mean, she's blue, she has head tentacles and... she blue.

 

Seriously, what's not to like?