359 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

The mage/templar conflict has always reminded me of the X-men universe, and I recall when watching the first film, which was my first contact with the universe, I thought that the position that war is inevitable is not one I could dismiss out of hand.

 

Usually, unless other considerations interfere I'm drawn towards the idealistic position first in my stories when it's about the possibility of co-existence, and my first Inquisitor will follow that tradition, but that doesn't mean I don't find the alternative one somewhat convincing. So, if you honestly believe that peaceful co-existence between the mageborn and everyone else is ultimately impossible, and given the perfectly natural assumption that you don't want to lose as a mage, what else is left but the attempt to win, and to gain power over anyone who would control your fate?

 

The odd thing about this is that it would also validate the pro-Templar position, since naturally neither do they want to lose. This is not about who is right or wrong, but about the plausibility of a political position based on the assumption that war is inevitable, and about the changed philosophical landscape resulting from such an assumption. 

 

What do you think about this? 

[smoke and mirrors]

I would like to know if you can not pick a side . If i RP as an Elven Mage what do i care for either side . So a " peaceful co-existence " or i just kill both sides .

[Br3admax]

Fun fact, most mages will die against peasants with pitch forks in an all out fight. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

There can be peace if mages are under 100 % non-mages control and locked so they couldn't escape and then we will have peace. 

 

If you seek rather lets to be honest naive hug-hug kiss-kiss solution good luck with that simple 1 have to dominate or destroy other or there will be war that is pretty much how life works.

 

If you are mage best solution would be search for more power then dominate everyone but then you pretty much don't want other mages around for various reasons.     

[BloodKaiden]

I mean at the end of the day it is always about survival, if you are mageborn and war breaks out against your kind its only natural that they would fight for their lives.

[KainD]

This game won't allow for radical positions, because that's not the story bioware wants to tell.. 

 

Other than that I totally think that mages and non-mages can't co-exist peacefully unless one faction is dominated by the other. 

[KoorahUK]

If your Inquisitor believes war is inevitable, and that the only way to avoid it is to acheive total dominance, then yes its a completely plausible political position to take.

 

I guess its up to you how far you push finding a resolution before you come to that conclusion. 

[lordsaren101]

There can be no peace. Non-Mages only want to cage and enslave mages, out of fear and jealousy. Mage supremacy is the only logical and rightful outcome of a long brewing conflict. Hail hydra...grr wrong universe..Hail Tevinter!

[Xilizhra]

Well, I certainly don't see anything about a magocracy that's inherently worse than monarchy/aristocratic oligarchy.

[Br3admax]

Being brutalized in supernatural as well as natural ways doesn't seem worse to you? 

[lordsaren101]

Being brutalized in supernatural as well as natural ways doesn't seem worse to you? 

Magical ability does not dictate automatic brutality. The strong rule the weak, is that not the practice your chantry has been hiding behind a thinly hooded veil for the past millenia?

[Ieldra]

Being brutalized in supernatural as well as natural ways doesn't seem worse to you? 

Magic is a perfectly natural force in Thedas. Apart from that, not intrinsically, no. It all depends on how exactly you're treated. There is a slight difference between, say, the existence as a mind-controlled slave and having your mind read if you enter the ruler's palace to ensure you're not causing trouble.

 

In both kinds of goverment, it's perfectly plausible that you'll be be left alone as long as you pay your taxes and don't interfere with politics. In both kinds of government, you may suffer from being bullied by people with friends in high places. It's just the mages in one case and the nobles in the other.

[lordsaren101]

Magic is a perfectly natural force in Thedas. Apart from that, not intrinsically, no. It all depends on how exactly you're treated. There is a slight difference between, say, the existence as a mind-controlled slave and having your mind read if you enter the ruler's palace to ensure you're not causing trouble.

 

In both kinds of goverment, it's perfectly plausible that you'll be be left alone as long as you pay your taxes and don't interfere with politics. In both kinds of government, you may suffer from being bullied by people with friends in high places. It's just the mages in one case and the nobles in the other.

Someone gets it. (claps hands) 

[TheKomandorShepard]

Last i checked mages empire almost destroyed world mages are danger to entire world their society even more but in terms society being oppresive there is little difference but yet some society need to reach tevinter level in that. 

 

So while magocracy is great for individuals in charge (read some mages) it is bad for rest of human kind.

[The Ascendant]

My human mage inquisitor will usurp the Elder One's position and all of Thedas will bow before it's one and only god. Other mages will be the ruling class and Thedas shall be divided into provinces and ruled by native magi. They will be free to rule at their discretion so long as they honour and worship the God Emperor, the Supreme Mage, Lord of Thedas and the Fade, Rodrigo Trevelyan.
Bow before your new god and spared.

[lordsaren101]

Last i checked mages empire almost destroyed world mages are danger to entire world their society even more but in terms society being oppresive there is little difference but yet some society need to reach tevinter level in that. 
 
So while magocracy is great for individuals in charge (read some mages) it is bad for rest of human kind.

Mages should rule. When Tevinter ruled the world was united, not the tribal mess that brews today.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Mages should rule. When Tevinter ruled the world was united, not the tribal mess that brews today.

Yeah and they almost destroyed that world because of their power hunger not mention creating dystopia truly great achievement.

If i will want to go with unity and stability from all groups it would be qunari.

[lordsaren101]

Yeah and they almost destroyed that world because of their power hunger not mention creating dystopia truly great achievement.
If i will want to go with unity and stability from all groups it would be qunari.

Dystopia exists in every society in every universe. Those who have power bully those that have not. It is the natural order. Is it fair? Nope, but it is the way of the world Thedas or not. The chantry has been doing the same if not worse.

Make the world Tevinter. Thedas = Imperium Tevinterum.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Dystopia exists in every society in every universe. Those who have power bully those that have not. It is the natural order. Is it fair? Nope, but it is the way of the world Thedas or not. The chantry has been doing the same if not worse.

Make the world Tevinter. Thedas = Imperium Tevinterum.

LoL not rly i don't even know from where you have such idea... I guess you are bullied and abused by goverment then? And i too and everyone else save for those in power? Not well then you don't live in dystopia same for peoples in thedas.And what chantry does please tell me i didn't saw chantry to abuse their residents save for perhaps city elves and in rare cases some mages .

[Ieldra]

Mages should rule. When Tevinter ruled the world was united, not the tribal mess that brews today.

That has always been the appeal of empire. As opposed to what people tend to believe, there is no intrinsic cost of freedom since the alternative - the nation state - can be just as oppressive as an empire. In modern times, evidence appears to indicate that the nation-state is a more efficient political entity since there are fewer factions to integrate, but there is an intrinsic price to pay in "mess", so to speak. In any case, an empire is not intrinsically worse than the alternatives, and in the context of Thedas, it's worth thinking about.

 

The big game-changer, however, is magical mind control and blood sacrifice. I would not support Tevinter without a change in its internal policy. Rather, I'd make my own brand of mage supremacism which would try to eradicate the practice.    

[lordsaren101]

LoL not rly i don't even know from where you have such idea... I guess you are bullied and abused by goverment then? And i too and everyone else save for those in power? Not well then you don't live in dystopia same for peoples in thedas.And what chantry does please tell me i didn't saw chantry to abuse their residents save for perhaps city elves and in rare cases some mages .

Every single person in thedas is bullied by the nobility. Where have you been? The entire nation of Orlais opresses its citizens. Chevaliers have a legal right to rape and murder. Gimme a break. In Tevinter no excuses are made.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Every single person in thedas is bullied by the nobility. Where have you been? The entire nation of Orlais opresses its citizens. Chevaliers have a legal right to rape and murder. Gimme a break. In Tevinter no excuses are made.

Haha where did hawke and his family was oppressed by nobility , were peoples opressed in lothering ,were peoples opressed in redcliff , were peoples opressed in denerim?All you could is point orlais that in fact is one of most corrupted societies in thedas.Most peoples in ferelden didn't had that bad save for problems with blight and well even in kirkwall it wasn't very bad for most perhaps save for refugees.

 

  

[Yinello]

I think it's plausible to believe that war is inevitable. However it's not plausible to think that the world suddenly becomes better for whoever is the victor. Whoever wins can set down new rules - but if done wrong, they will be met with anger and frustration and may lead to another war (basically why WWII followed quicky after WWI). The war can set forward change but truly changing the world for the better of Mages is best done in the aftermath together with the Templars with logic, reason and understanding.

[lordsaren101]

No Ferelden is super awesome(sarcasm intended) it is impoverished backwater. The people are peasants, the land is ugly and wild. The nobility tortures the elves and keeps the common folk very common. They fought for freedom from oppression by orlais and traded it for poverty and Loghain...now Alistair, and hes an idiot.