359 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

Let's say that you can be of a mage supremacist mindset in the game. Why should BioWare be inclined to reward such behavior in your character?

They let a templar-siding Hawke become viscount, didn't they?

[raging_monkey]

They let a templar-siding Hawke become viscount, didn't they?

idk if that was supremacy might have been a dubious action at best but no supremacy correlation imo

[nightscrawl]

Let's say that you can be of a mage supremacist mindset in the game. Why should BioWare be inclined to reward such behavior in your character?

 

I don't see what they should "reward" either viewpoint. You have your dialog options, you take them, and there is some result. Whether you consider the result as a reward or a penalty is entirely up to you.

 

Now, we can certainly enter into discussion about "perfect" scenarios like the third Connor/Isolde choice, but I would argue that it is only seen as perfect with meta knowledge. When playing the game for the very first time you don't know that everything will turn out. You could have very well gotten back to Redcliffe, discovered that you took too long slogging through the tower, and everyone is dead.

 

Your question presupposes that such options will have good and bad results, instead of Bad Result A or Bad Result B. The Orzammar choice is one such example, and completely depends on your worldview while playing that portion of the game.

 

Finally, some choices are there solely to allow you to roleplay. Your character doesn't benefit in any way from the result of say, giving Bella money to start a new life. You may like the resultant story outcome of her opening a brewery, but it's not a reward in the sense that it had no impact on your own gameplay, in fact you lost money while making it.

[Ieldra]

I'm pretty sure they were both there first.

 

The PC doesn't scrape together his buddies and found the Inquistion from scratch. The Divine's agents formed a proto-Inquisition already before  you show up.

 

Which is why I roll my eyes when ya'll talk about making them into a Pro-Tevinter army or whatever. They are there to deal with the Breach, not serve your personal vendettas. You get to direct them, but they aren't your mindless slaves.

I am certainly not going to work for the Chantry if I can at all avoid it. If the threat makes it necessary, I'll deal with them as realpolitik would suggest as an untrusted but unfortunately necessary ally. If the game forces me to go beyond that, it will adversely affect my enjoyment of it. Signfiicantly. That's why I was - and still am - suspicious of the whole setup as a player when information about all this came out.

 

Also....*sigh*....this thread was never and is not a support thread for anyone or anything. I am exploring a political position I do not usually take in order to evaluate how plausibly I could play an Inquisitor with that mindset.

[KC_Prototype]

I like mages more than I like templars, sooooo....MAGES FTW!!!

[Doominike]

I'll just do as usual and remove the most things I don't like from the world that the game will allow me too. What I can't kill (or at least condemn to a really sucky fate) I'll be very mean to out of spite

[Helios969]

Ieldra:  I think you can roleplay anyway you want so long as you can come up with a plausible rationale to support the position.  What is your character's background and motivations to adopt a mage-supremacist attitude?  Of course there will always be constraints in the writing that will keep you in check.  I always like to write brief little backstories to help me establish the way I am going to do a playthrough.  This is the one I came up with for my Qunari mage.

 

Paneesh is Tal Vashoth, a female Qunari mage who understands nothing of her kin far to the north other than the fearful glances she elicits among the peoples of Thedas.  She has never even seen another Qunari.  She is highly loyal to the Valo-Kas mercenary troupe as they have embraced her as one of their own.  When her magic began to manifest when still quite young she was sent to be safely trained with an apostate named Ingres; a withered woman half blind and permanently hunched over who lived alone deep in the Planasene Forest.  Despite her decrepit appearance the old woman was powerfully dangerous with tenacious control over her connection to the fade.  Only alive now in Paneesh’s memory, the old woman serves as an example of why the Circle should be abolished and mages should be free.  Freedom is an important ideal to Paneesh.

[Ieldra]

@Helios:
It was more the problem of making a rational rationale to support the position. You can always say "Mages are superior and deserve to rule", but non sequiturs like this I won't demean myself into adopting. However, "Mages need to rule if they don't want to be oppressed", that can be a rational position since it's supported by history. Mages have either been politically (Tevinter) or culturally (Rivain) dominant or they ended up oppressed. The idealist believes we should try for non-dominating co-existence anyway, and the cynic says it's a waste of time and suggests isolation or dominance if possible. Neither position is inconsistent or irrational.

Nice concept btw..

[EmperorSahlertz]

They let a templar-siding Hawke become viscount, didn't they?

Which had nothing to do with supremacism. So that is an invalid point.

[raging_monkey]

I believe magi should be in in higher office it works for rivian and nevaraa and tevinter. Not every mage is bat crazy would stoop to evil most are peaceful its fearcand ignorace that restrict magi not a unconfirmed god and the words of a madwoman

[Helios969]

Ieldra: Sounds to me like you already have a well thought out rationale to govern your playthrough.  As to "not stooping" I understand where you're coming from, though I'd say self-delusion is as real a human condition as there is and therefore a valid approach.  Personally I find it more fun to have only a general ideological framework because often my perception of what I believe to be some sort of absolute truth ends up altered...sometimes quite radically.

[lordsaren101]

A magister needs no rationale. Mages should rule, there is no other viability.

[Xilizhra]

Which had nothing to do with supremacism. So that is an invalid point.

Well, I wouldn't call supremacism worse than genocide (or, if you prefer, mass murder), so I certainly don't see less of a reason to reward it.

[raging_monkey]

A magister needs no rationale. Mages should rule, there is no other viability.

if they cant get get along with non magi step aside ant our nation be

[Bizantura]

Since 99% percent of the worlds population think in dualistic terms and in a closed system to boot it would rather be strange this game would not reflect that.  Even the president of the strongest/mightiest country in the world has put that in the simplest terms possible, you are either with us or against us.  Wouldn't want people to get creative now would we, that might lead to all sorts of odd places beyond controll!!  

 

So the best to hope for is that the game allows you to leave strong opposite fractions alive in the aftermath but eventually they will duke it out for supremacy with or without you.  I bet they even will want to kill you despite you're the hero who saved all there butts if you are not willing to join there faction.

[Super Drone]

A magister needs no rationale. Mages should rule, there is no other viability.

 

 

I dunno. I heard about this one idea, where you make an army of dudes who have anti-magic powers and send them out to kill rogue mages, and then collect all the mages who didn't want to fight and sequester them in places where they can't harm or dominate regular people, and those regular people can't harm them.

 

Seems pretty legit.

[Master Warder Z_]

They let a templar-siding Hawke become viscount, didn't they?

Because they just put down a circle rebellion.

[Aolbain]

This thread is a wonderful example of why the mainstream position towards mages is justified.

[raging_monkey]

This thread is a wonderful example of why the mainstream position towards mages is justified.

is it these are fringe groups at best so they are at best benign. And templar supremism is better cause the have numbers and a religion backimg them?

[Stronglav]

Mages should rule you say?You just reminded me of someone.

 

Quote:With a move of my hand I can achieve more in a second then templar can achieve in a lifetime.

And yet they rule us?Absurd.

 

You by any chance don't remember who said that do you?

 

[raging_monkey]

Mages should rule you say?You just reminded me of someone.
 
Quote:With a move of my hand I can achieve more in a second then templar can achieve in a lifetime.
And yet they rule us?Absurd.
 
You by any chance don't remember who said that do you?

tahrone but she was crazy. Supremiscy isnt always bad (most times oh yes) but itsvthe templars who brand us monsters... why not become what we are feared since you'd never believe otherwise

[Stronglav]

why not become what we are feared since you'd never believe otherwise

 

Simply facepalm.

I am on the mages side because I saw too much in the game how tje templars abuse them.

One girl became an abomination because she was surrounded by slavers and had no other way to save herself(DA2)

And there is also the crazy ones:powa!!unlimited powa!!

But most mages not monsters.

[raging_monkey]

Simply facepalm.
I am on the mages side because I saw too much in the game how tje templars abuse them.
One girl became an abomination because she was surrounded by slavers and had no other way to save herself(DA2)
And there is also the crazy ones:powa!!unlimited powa!!
But most mages not monsters.

im on the side of magi too but after years of playing and talking with fellow fans i admit my idealisms been tempered by cynicism. Im aware they are not monsters and are regular people but its becoming clear that BW wants to have us choose a side. Apologies if i offended

[Stronglav]

None taken.I choose mages.Templars are just brainwashed killers.

 

But anyway there is a bad sheep in any flok.

Thank you for blowing up the Chantry Anders!!You crazy psycho.

You started a war in which millions will die.Hope you burn in hell.

[raging_monkey]

None taken.I choose mages.Templars are just brainwashed killers.
 
But anyway there is a bad sheep in any flok.
Thank you for blowing up the Chantry Anders!!You crazy psycho.
You started a war in which millions will die.Hope you burn in hell.

yeah ****ed it up for everybody.... but templars being brainwashed is a strech definatly zealous