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Mage supremacism - a plausible position to adopt?


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#251
Ieldra

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Ieldra: Sounds to me like you already have a well thought out rationale to govern your playthrough.  As to "not stooping" I understand where you're coming from, though I'd say self-delusion is as real a human condition as there is and therefore a valid approach.  Personally I find it more fun to have only a general ideological framework because often my perception of what I believe to be some sort of absolute truth ends up altered...sometimes quite radically.

If people weren't prone to self-delusion, some ideologies wouldn't exist. I'm not willing to roleplay all permutations of such though. For instance, I have no trouble playing a power-hungry bastard, of the "I do this because I can" type. Even if I do, though, I'll never be able to play one who believes they're more deserving of that power than others. That's because "deserving" implies a judgment and the idea that there are absolute grounds for such judgment is as alien to my mindset as the idea of faith in a higher power.  So, my power-hungry bastards will be aware of the fact that their aspirations are existentially arbitrary. Not that this will stop them... 

 

For the same reason, the same limitation applies to the "good" side: I can roleplay a full archetypal hero who accepts a duty to save the world and sacrifices their lives for it, but I am unwilling to play one who believes he's on a divine mission. They may accept duties presented to them by someone else, even a deity, but they will always know that even a deity's will is arbitrary and there is no absolute righteousness.

 

I should say that it's odd how this puts me at odds with both the typical supremacist mindset as well as a typical religious one. Maybe that's why I've always felt they have something in common: the certainty about their own existential importance I find myself unable to adopt if I want to keep at least some identification with my character.



#252
Exaltation

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Just kill Mages at birth,seems useless having the Circle of Magi if every Mage's fate in the end is death/tranquility lol.

But i guess they need Mages to combat Darkspawn,cuz for some reason the Maker doesn't give awesome powers to the "righteous".



#253
raging_monkey

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Just kill Mages at birth,seems useless having the Circle of Magi if every Mage's fate in the end is death/tranquility lol.
But i guess they need Mages to combat Darkspawn,cuz for some reason the Maker doesn't give awesome powers to the "righteous".

and so it begins

#254
Stronglav

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Just kill Mages at birth,seems useless having the Circle of Magi if every Mage's fate in the end is death/tranquility lol.

But i guess they need Mages to combat Darkspawn,cuz for some reason the Maker doesn't give awesome powers to the "righteous".

 

You're mage.And I will kill you now as a child.Why?Because fate in the end is death/tranquility lol.



#255
Exaltation

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Well maybe you prefer giving false hope and control/use people lol.

Also it would help the economy,no Circle of Magi full of Mages that need to be fed and dressed and watched over all the time.

Sad fact: you will still have your corrupted non-Mage politicians,thieves,murderers,etc.



#256
Stronglav

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You are so wrong I won't even argue.Double epic facepalm.



#257
Doominike

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Btw, am I the only one who's totes backing Anders ?



#258
Incantrix

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Btw, am I the only one who's totes backing Anders ?

I did. Reluctantly but I did. 

 

Change doesn't come with small talk. Especially not with magic being evil that's so ingrained into peoples mind that change may never happen peacefully. Sometimes, you need a push to make them listen. I'm glad Anders did what he did and my hawke backs him 100%. 

 

I have people who rely on passivity being a good option. We're all not Martin Luther King so 9/10 it's not. (Oh, and btw, we all know what happened to him because he got too comfortable being "peaceful" around the demons who wanted him dead)



#259
SolNebula

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My Dalish Mage will certainly be a Mage supremacist.



#260
Ieldra

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Btw, am I the only one who's totes backing Anders ?

I don't know the expression, but my main Hawke backed Anders. She also romanced him, then killed him to make him a martyr as he appeared to want. I like their story. A tragic love among mage revolutionaries.

#261
Doominike

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Totes is just short for totally



#262
HaHa365

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Btw, am I the only one who's totes backing Anders ?

I backed anders because of his beliefs....and then martyred him.



#263
Doominike

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By "totes backing" I meant like, if he told you the plan you'd still have helped him set it up, or even done it yourself



#264
Br3admax

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I'd be surprised that people think terrorism is an efficient, non-hypocritical, and just way to get their points across, but this is BSN. 


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#265
raging_monkey

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I'd be surprised that people think terrorism is an efficient, non-hypocritical, and just way to get their points across, but this is BSN.

hpocrisy is a virtue here

#266
Dark Helmet

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I'd be surprised that people think terrorism is an efficient, non-hypocritical, and just way to get their points across, but this is BSN. 

 

But it only counts as terrorism if you disagree with the stated goal...

 

...



#267
Doominike

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It's not terrorism just because a building blew up. Terrorism means using terror as a weapon, that's not why he did it. He said "I remove the chance of compromise because there can be no compromise" not "fear mages bitches"



#268
Br3admax

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It's not terrorism just because a building blew up. Terrorism means using terror as a weapon, that's not why he did it. He said "I remove the chance of compromise because there can be no compromise" not "fear mages bitches"

You're posting here, so I know you have access to Google: 
 
ter·ror·ism
ˈterəˌrizəm/
noun
noun: terrorism
the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.
 

 

 

 



#269
Doominike

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All wars are terrorism by that definition



#270
Ieldra

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I'd be surprised that people think terrorism is an efficient, non-hypocritical, and just way to get their points across, but this is BSN.

If you hadn't noticed, we are talking about characters in a roleplaying game. Sometimes....just sometimes, they do things we wouldn't do in RL.

Apart from that, well, one person's terrorist is the next one's freedom fighter. The point of terrorism, when not used in an ongoing war, is not efficiency, but visibility, to tell the world that there's a problem in a way it can't just ignore, as people are prone to do if the problem isn't brought home to them. Unfortunately, large-scale disasters, mass murder of innocents and destruction of highly symbolic and famous structures (which is what Anders did) are about the only thing guaranteed to get everyone's attention.

Whether that ever achieves anything is a different question. Ask a specialist on the matter. I'm not one. Just this: that it's morally reprehensible has no bearing on the answer.

#271
Exaltation

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Blowing the Chantry was pointless,Elthina anyway didn't do anything for "compromise" lol.
She was just sending Orsino/Meredith back to their work without providing a long-term/permanent solution,delaying the inevitable.
Anyway by that time the Mages/Templars looked up to Hawke to solve the problem,while Elthina was in the Chantry waiting for some miracle to solve Orsino's/Meredith's problems,tho Anders' bomb acted faster than the Maker lol.

2col8vm.jpg

#272
SgtSteel91

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Ander's tricked my Hawke (who was friends with) into getting his bomb materials and setting up the bomb. Even though my Hawke sided with the Mages (mostly to protect his sister), he killed Anders in a desperate attempt to call of the Annulment by brining the head of the Mage who destroyed the Chantry to Meredith.



#273
Doominike

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He was needlessly secretive in my case



#274
Br3admax

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If you hadn't noticed, we are talking about characters in a roleplaying game. Sometimes....just sometimes, they do things we wouldn't do in RL.

Doesn't really matter when you, or anyone for that matter, uses their real life morals to justify the actions and condemn the ones of others in the same setting. Even if it did, it doesn't change my point 

Apart from that, well, one person's terrorist is the next one's freedom fighter. The point of terrorism is not efficiency, but visibility, to tell the world that there's a problem in a way it can't just ignore, as people are prone to do if the problem isn't brought home to them. Unfortunately, large-scale disasters, mass murder of innocents and destruction of highly symbolic and famous structures (which is what Anders did) are about the only thing guaranteed to get everyone's attention.

Like right here, for instance, you just said that the only way to get the point across was to kill a bunch of people. I don't care about the semantics of "freedom fighters" which even by your own admission is just a euphemism for terrorist. A rose by any other name. But let's ignore all that. Let's ignore that the current head of the Chantry was the most in favor of reform in its history. Let's ignore that no one agreed with Anders, at least no one sane agreed with the plan. Let's ignore that Anders himself didn't agree with it. Let's ignore all the innocents killed in the process. Let's ignore that it had the complete opposite effect. Did it actually accomplish any of those goals for wanting change? Was change actually the goal? Not really, the only point given was that magic is dangerous and that peace can't exist between mundanes and mages. But considering that is the message Anders/Vengeance wanted to get across, I guess that's a mission accomplished. 

 

 

Whether that ever achieves anything is a different question. Ask a specialist on the matter. I'm not one. Just this: that it's morally reprehensible has no bearing on the answer.

Does that really matter to the point I was making? Not really. 


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#275
Noviere

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The magocracy is inevitable.