They're able to go out with templars nearby and not completely on their own, IIRC. And Finn is released into the Warden's custody and not permitted to go out simply because he asks either. Travel is fairly restricted.
Which is perfectly reasonable given the threat mages pose.
Wynne (or any such senior/high ranked mages like Irving or vivienne) would be completely non-dangerous living outside the circle. So are all Firsts and Keepers, so are Morrigan and Flemeth, so are a lot of warden mages, so was Anders (until a certain point), so are some Tevinters, so are the free ones in Nevarra, so were the Hawkes, the Warden mage and the Inquisitor mage can be perfectly ok if you make them so.
Most of the anti-circle mages are that way because they get desperate when templars pursue and kill them. Or when they're in a place like Kirkwall where the Veil is barely there, an ancient tevinter magister's evil influence seeps through nearby and the templars are even worse than elsewhere
Wynne (or any such senior/high ranked mages like Irving or vivienne) would be completely non-dangerous living outside the circle. So are all Firsts and Keepers, so are Morrigan and Flemeth, so are a lot of warden mages, so was Anders (until a certain point), so are some Tevinters, so are the free ones in Nevarra, so were the Hawkes, the Warden mage and the Inquisitor mage can be perfectly ok if you make them so.
Most of the anti-circle mages are that way because they get desperate when templars pursue and kill them. Or when they're in a place like Kirkwall where the Veil is barely there, an ancient tevinter magister's evil influence seeps through nearby and the templars are even worse than elsewhere
Wait Morrigan and Flemeth are non-dangerous? WHAT??? (not to mention neither are decidedly anti-circle.
The two keepers we have met have both been irresponsible imbeciles. One invited a demon to possess her whilst the other was dabbling in curses and dark arts, both lead (or were leading to) to the ruin of their respective clans.
Merrill was also putting everybody she knew in danger, dabbling in things she didn't understand, her actions also kead to the demise of her clan and put her own life and the lives of her companions in direct danger. This is despite everyone telling her what she was doing was incredibly dangerous. Even Flemeth of all people gave her a cryptic message that messing with the eluvian was a bad idea.
They are guilty of being exceptionally dangerous to the general public. A mage can burn a house down or succumb to demon possession without actually meaning to, or even wanting to. This is why the circle is more akin to a quarantine zone (albeit a quarantine zone where those inside invariably have far better living conditions than the general public,) it isn't so much a punishment, but a precaution.
The protection of the many must come before the good of the few.
I disagree that mages are this dangerous after completing their apprenticeship. If all were, Wynne, Finn, Ines, etc. should never be let out of their towers. Especially not Wynne, in fact, because she has a spirit passenger. And its easy to read that last line as "the oppression of the few serves the many."
Wait Morrigan and Flemeth are non-dangerous? WHAT??? (not to mention neither are decidedly anti-circle.
The two keepers we have met have both been irresponsible imbeciles. One invited a demon to possess her whilst the other was dabbling in curses and dark arts, both lead (or were leading to) to the ruin of their respective clans.
Merrill was also putting everybody she knew in danger, dabbling in things she didn't understand, her actions also kead to the demise of her clan and put her own life and the lives of her companions in direct danger. This is despite everyone telling her what she was doing was incredibly dangerous. Even Flemeth of all people gave her a cryptic message that messing with the eluvian was a bad idea.
Her actions led to nothing bad whatsoever. It was everyone else's overreactions to them that actually caused harm.
As for protecting mages from demons... I agree, that should be a priority, and the Circle should be based around that. With the templars not ruling over the mages, with mages having fair representation within the Chantry's government if the Chantry will still be governing them, with the removal of Annulment and involuntary Tranquility, and with Harrowings not having fatal consequences for failure.
I disagree that mages are this dangerous after completing their apprenticeship. If all were, Wynne, Finn, Ines, etc. should never be let of their towers. Especially not Wynne, in fact, because she has a spirit passenger. And its easy to read that last line as "the oppression of the few serves the many."
It's been stated that even a seasoned mage can fall to a demon's temptation or be tricked into possession from even just a moment of weakness.
Just because the almighty PC can say " No demon, screw you!" whenever they want doesn't mean that it is true for all mages.
Mages that pass their harrowing aren't suddenly immune from demon possession any more than someone who has passed their driving test are immune from crashing.
The harrowing just gives mages the knowledge and experience to fend a demon off should they have to deal with one in the future.
They are guilty of being exceptionally dangerous to the general public. A mage can burn a house down or succumb to demon possession without actually meaning to, or even wanting to. This is why the circle is more akin to a quarantine zone (albeit a quarantine zone where those inside invariably have far better living conditions than the general public,) it isn't so much a punishment, but a precaution.
The protection of the many must come before the good of the few
That's why mages will never be free, Wynne told you about it in Awakening. The only thing that you can do is to make yourself trustworthy or else be turned tranquil. You contracting yourself that any mage who can control themselves can live outside the Circle since you can't guarantee that they control themselves. Wynne is an abomination who can be a threat, Wilheim is a political advisor who will use his power to get what he wanted and the Warden could potentially be a blood mage.
I agree with magic schools, just not prisons for non-criminals that call themselves schools. Flemeth may not be anti-circle (though she likes killing templars apparently) but she's definitely pro-freedom for at least herself and her daughters. Morrigan is definitely anti-circle, she's in favor of purging the circle tower because she finds that people who accept captivity don't deserve freedom and should thus die, or something like that
That's why mages will never be free, Wynne told you about it in Awakening. The only thing that you can do is to make yourself trustworthy or else be turned tranquil. You contracting yourself that any mage who can control themselves can live outside the Circle since you can't guarantee that they control themselves. Wynne is an abomination who can be a threat, Wilheim is a political advisor who will use his power to get what he wanted and the Warden could potentially be a blood mage.
Of course there's no guarantee that anybody anywhere is trustworthy, but there are ways to build up people's trust in you. Ultimately Wynne and Wilhelm WEREN'T trustworthy, but they had both earned enough goodwill from their actions in the past to be considered so. This proves that even here there is a loophole that mages can exploit.
problems? Whats the worse xan happen thedas is already crap so why not let it happen.... men dont fear swords.... they fear monstersThat's why mages will never be free, Wynne told you about it in Awakening. The only thing that you can do is to make yourself trustworthy or else be turned tranquil. You contracting yourself that any mage who can control themselves can live outside the Circle since you can't guarantee that they control themselves. Wynne is an abomination who can be a threat, Wilheim is a political advisor who will use his power to get what he wanted and the Warden could potentially be a blood mage.
It's been stated that even a seasoned mage can fall to a demon's temptation or be tricked into possession from even just a moment of weakness.
Just because the almighty PC can say " No demon, screw you!" whenever they want doesn't mean that it is true for all mages.
Mages that pass their harrowing aren't suddenly immune from demon possession any more than someone who has passed their driving test are immune from crashing.
The harrowing just gives mages the knowledge and experience to fend a demon off should they have to deal with one in the future.
I don't think this argues what I posted. If even seasoned mages like Wynne, Ines, Wilhem, Finn, Irving, Rhys, Adrian, etc. can be possessed at any time, why are they ever let out of their towers? I can only see it that either the threat of possession isn't actually that great, or that the usefulness of their abilities outweigh the threat of possession, and if their abilities outweigh threat of possession, all harrowed mages should be allowed to travel unrestricted.
I don't think this argues what I posted. If even seasoned mages like Wynne, Ines, Wilhem, Finn, Irving, Rhys, Adrian, etc. can be possessed at any time, why are they ever let out of their towers? I can only see it that either the threat of possession isn't actually that great, or that the usefulness of their abilities outweigh the threat of possession, and if their abilities outweigh threat of possession, all harrowed mages should be allowed to travel unrestricted.
How... black and white. Unfortunately I tend to go by the lore, instead of headcannoning things that support what I want to believe. It's been stated over and over that the threat of possession IS that great, and yes, the more powerful the mage the less likely they are to succumb to possession but that doesn't mean it isn't there.
And yes it was a direct argument to what you wrote, you were saying that mages cease to be dangerous to after they pass their harrowing, I was saying otherwise.
Anders, Orsino, Grace, Quentin and Uldred also tend to disprove your point.
Tevinter has no abomination disasters in it's history and the mages there are treated like students who learn at the circle and most of them have homes, titles and families.
How... black and white. Unfortunately I tend to go by the lore, instead of headcannoning things that support what I want to believe. It's been stated over and over that the threat of possession IS that great, and yes, the more powerful the mage the less likely they are to succumb to possession but that doesn't mean it isn't there.
And yes it was a direct argument to what you wrote, you were saying that mages cease to be dangerous to after they pass their harrowing, I was saying otherwise.
Anders, Orsino, Grace, Quentin and Uldred also tend to disprove your point.
I haven't headcanoned anything. I said there were only two reasons I could see that any mages are let out of their towers. I didn't mention subscribing to one belief or the other. And I never said all threat ceases after the harrowing. Also, if power negates threat of possession, which I've never heard and would like a citation for, that conflicts with your point that all mages regardless of training can be possessed at basically any time. And the wretchedness of circle conditions contributed significantly to the possession of four of the five mages you listed at the end. If their lives were not so restricted, perhaps they never would have turned to demons. Actually, I don't think Quentin was possessed at all. So four of four.
Modifié par lil yonce, 10 octobre 2014 - 10:20 .
while i think tevinter has it right on magic/magi to say there are no abomination diasters is a strechTevinter has no abomination disasters in it's history and the mages there are treated like students who learn at the circle and most of them have homes, titles and families.
Tevinter has no abomination disasters in it's history and the mages there are treated like students who learn at the circle and most of them have homes, titles and families.
Lots of them are slavers too, some might say. But I reply, which they would still be if they weren't mages. I'd bet at least a few slimy politicians somewhere wishes they were a mage so they could mind control others by sacrificing people
while i think tevinter has it right on magic/magi to say there are no abomination diasters is a strech
I said disaster, not incident. Mages might turn into abomination but maybe its quite rare and handled very well.
ah now i see your pointI said disaster, not incident. Mages might turn into abomination but maybe its quite rare and handled very well.
The "cannibal" part is a concept gesture. He does not intentionally cut human meat and eat it. The blood of his enemy splashes into his mouth and it tastes like honey. Do you see the connect between "blood of my enemy" and Vengeance? Ironically in the game Anders has talent named "blood of my enemy" and he is healed when he kills an enemy. Its not Cannibalism, its Vengeance. The pure satisfaction he gets when he gets his revenge, blood is not even the issue.
Fenris openly insults him for 8 years and tells him he should be locked up for 8 years. When Hawke sells Fenris (which is all the credit) Anders is like "good riddance, now you are locked up". He does nothing to send Fenris to slavery, he laughs at the notion of Fenris getting a taste of his own medicine.
Almost every single nation has committed terrorism or more than that in name of independence and greater good of nation. For example Americans used many of those tactics against Brits in their independence war. Its very easy to get on a high horse and condemn revolutionaries who used extreme methods, isn't it? But lets not forget being able to take the high road and condemn the actions of murderous freedom fighters is, sometimes, not recognized for what it is: a luxury that we would NOT HAVE if not for those murderers giving the rest of the world something to rally around. While Self righteous but also selfless since he literally singed his own death with it, what he did opened the mage's eyes. They realized they are not safe and nothing is stopping them from getting unjustly annulled for crimes they had nothing to with and they are forever at Chantry and Templar's mercy, naturally it caused great anger and with just a little bit of heat from Asunder rebellion was launched.
A mentally unstable abomination being apprehended?! Oh the horror. Circle quarantine equal slavery right? Oh wait Tevinter and the Qunari shows us something different.
Replay the game. He stated that he removed the chance for compromise because there is no compromise. That's nihlism. He wanted the Kirkwall's mages to be martyrs for his war. Even Fiona criticized him. But continue the whitewashing and romanticisation of his character.
well i dont agree with anders at all but if the mundanes see magi as monsters that should be locked up an forgitten.... why not become monsters.A mentally unstable abomination being apprehended?! Oh the horror. Circle quarantine equal slavery right? Oh wait Tevinter and the Qunari shows us something different.
Replay the game. He stated that he removed the chance for compromise because there is no compromise. That's nihlism. He wanted the Kirkwall's mages to be martyrs for his war. Even Fiona criticized him. But continue the whitewashing and romanticisation of his character.
Wynne (or any such senior/high ranked mages like Irving or vivienne) would be completely non-dangerous living outside the circle.
Are you going to include Uldred on that group?
Adrian?
Well there is Tevinter already so I would say very plausible. I would expect them to give us the choice in this actually, no matter what, in DA 2 you could not kill all the templars but you sure could kill all the mages, I always found that kinda strange if you side with Orsino.
Either way I have this strange feeling that somehow we are gonna to end up like Andraste, which means even if we are mages that want to eradicate injustice, people still associate us with "religion". So ya "The herald of Andraste" tittle is a little **** up if my character is a Lucrosian, hates the Chantry and want a magocracy.
Tevinter has no abomination disasters in it's history and the mages there are treated like students who learn at the circle and most of them have homes, titles and families.
And the main event at parties tends to be the ritual mutilation of eight year old boys.
In Orlais, they hunt Wyverns and ****. We can clearly see which nation is manlier.
Well there is Tevinter already so I would say very plausible. I would expect them to give us the choice in this actually, no matter what, in DA 2 you could not kill all the templars but you sure could kill all the mages, I always found that kinda strange if you side with Orsino.
Either way I have this strange feeling that somehow we are gonna to end up like Andraste, which means even if we are mages that want to eradicate injustice, people still associate us with "religion". So ya "The herald of Andraste" tittle is a little **** up if my character is a Lucrosians, hates the Chantry and want a magocracy.
Ya I hope we can voice displeasure to being called that in-game and tell them to stuff it
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