359 réponses à ce sujet

[AlexiaRevan]

 

Mage supremacism - a plausible position to adopt?

I think so..at least at the beginning . It's how I will play the rest of the game . 

[TheKomandorShepard]

No Ferelden is super awesome(sarcasm intended) it is impoverished backwater. The people are peasants, the land is ugly and wild. The nobility tortures the elves and keeps the common folk very common. They fought for freedom from oppression by orlais and traded it for poverty and Loghain...now Alistair, and hes an idiot.

Eee no it isn't super awsome and it isn't about being perfect because it would be utopia and it isn't bad for most as i said show me please that oppression and how peoples are opressed only group i would say had it bad were pretty much city elves.

As it was said by some characters ferelden gives commoners much more freedom and that was pointed by orlesian. 

Well like alistair ot not it is said in epilogue that he is pretty much very liked by folks it doesn't look like terror.

So no not being utopia doesn't mean dystopia.   

[Br3admax]

Magic is a perfectly natural force in Thedas. Apart from that, not intrinsically, no. It all depends on how exactly you're treated. There is a slight difference between, say, the existence as a mind-controlled slave and having your mind read if you enter the ruler's palace to ensure you're not causing trouble.

Supernatural doesn't mean unnatural. The fact is magic by its very definition is beyond the mundane. 

 

 

In both kinds of goverment, it's perfectly plausible that you'll be be left alone as long as you pay your taxes and don't interfere with politics. In both kinds of government, you may suffer from being bullied by people with friends in high places. It's just the mages in one case and the nobles in the other.

But in only one can a magister come to your home and turn you into a battery on the whim that he wants to duel his rival that afternoon. Don't pretend being a under mage rule is similar to being under a mundane. All the problems of being a mage are compounded on all the problems of being a ruler. It's worse by the definition of worse. 

[lordsaren101]

Supernatural doesn't mean unnatural. The fact is magic by its very definition is beyond the mundane. 

But in only one can a magister come to your home and turn you into a battery on the whim that he wants to duel his rival that afternoon. Don't pretend being a under mage rule is similar to being under a mundane. All the problems of being a mage are compounded on all the problems of having a ruler. It's worse by the definition of worse.

A magister can do as he likes. I assure you we do not kidnap loyal tevi ters in the night. Thats why we have an abundance of slaves and cow people POWs.

[Gustave Flowbert]

It would be interesting if we pull a Buffy in DAI and "slay magic". Severing the material world completely from the Fade would be very interesting. Presumably this would make all mages Tranquil but would this effect the emotional well being of humans, elves, and qunari? We know the Dwarves would be fine but I'm curious if we have really solid lore/canon backing on how deeply the Fade effects the dreams of non-mage, non-Dwarves?

[Br3admax]

A magister can do as he likes. I assure you we do not kidnap loyal tevi ters in the night. Thats why we have an abundance of slaves and cow people POWs.

You have a ton of slaves because you hire people to go to other nations and get more.

[Icy Magebane]

I think it will be entirely possible to make "mage supremacist" remarks and quest decisions in DA:I.  I don't see any reason why this wouldn't be the case... they did say that our classes would have more of an impact this time, so I would assume that extends to class-specific dialogue options.  I guess technically a rogue or warrior could also be a mage supremacist, but that would be... odd.

[Incantrix]

My Dalish elf secretly thinks magic is superiority. However, he also believes mages shouldn't lead with iron fists like the Tevinter, but lead with compassion and wisdom. Like Keepers of Dalish tribes. 

[Bayonet Hipshot]

No.

 

I do not want to be in charge simply because I am a mage / I can draw powers from the Fade.

 

To rule you need to qualify as one. Not born as one. 

 

Magic powers =/= leadership skills.

 

So while I am in support of mages who are qualified and capable leaders to rule over people, I am totally against mage supremacy. 

[TheJediSaint]

That would be a weird outlook for a warrior.

[Ieldra]

No.

 

I do not want to be in charge simply because I am a mage / I can draw powers from the Fade.

 

To rule you need to qualify as one. Not born as one. 

 

Magic powers =/= leadership skills.

 

So while I am in support of mages who are qualified and capable leaders to rule over people, I am totally against mage supremacy. 

That was not the question. The question is rather if there is a *need* for the mageborn to rule if they don't want to be enslaved by the non-mageborn. Power-mad mages are often painted as the cause of the problem, forgetting that the fear non-mageborn have of the mageborn often makes them support policies of enslavement. If the problem can't be solved by co-existence, there is no state of things where one side is not ascendant, and if that's so, it's natural for the mageborn to not want to be the second-class citizens. That individuals may not want to rule does not change the fact that anyone would rather be part of the dominant faction.

[HaHa365]

As with any group with power, it is plausible. As for peace, I don't forsee that ever coming into fruition, unless there are no mundanes or there are no magic users. Otherwise the mundanes will always fear what they don't understand and what they can't control.

As much as other nations would have you believe, none offer a perfect solution. There will always be nobles looking down on the poor and there will always be those with power and those with none.

[Tevinter Soldier]

Just look at this thread, There can be no Equality, No Accord, No negotiations. 

 

Mundane barbarians can never be trusted with Equality, Every step they try to bend Mages (their superiors) to their will, Enslave them, Torture them, Murder them, Rape isn't even out of question!

 

And for no reason other than their irrational hatred and fears.

 

Magi must rule not just to protect Magi, but to protect the mundane from itself. To educate them, Teach them their proper place.

The mundane is a blight seeking to spread death and destruction wherever it goes.

 

Peace can only be achieved through Magi rule, Only Magi can educate the Mundane bring them enlightenment.

But they must never rule, Their ego's, Their greed, Their self righteous indignation! Lead them to covet everything and that they cannot posses they will destroy. 

[Xilizhra]

But in only one can a magister come to your home and turn you into a battery on the whim that he wants to duel his rival that afternoon. Don't pretend being a under mage rule is similar to being under a mundane. All the problems of being a mage are compounded on all the problems of being a ruler. It's worse by the definition of worse. 

 

I'm actually pretty sure they can't. They can do that to their own slaves, yes, thanks to the system of slavery that exists independent of the concept of magocracy in Tevinter, but randomly murdering free citizens that I don't think anyone is allowed to do (and doing so to other peoples' slaves means you have to pay reparations).

[Super Drone]

Pro-mage Freedom? probably. Mage Supremicist? not in any way that is not empty posturing (*cough*likethisthread*cough*). The story's about leading an organization that is saving the world from a apocalyptic event. It's not an open-world excuse to play out antisocial pwer fantasies.

[Elfyoth]

There can be peace if the mages live like any other person in Thedas and there is in every village a person who is acting like a mage doctor, to see any problems with mages and the fade and he can try to heal them, SPOILER!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Like we CAN do with Connor.

[Br3admax]

I'm actually pretty sure they can't. They can do that to their own slaves, yes, thanks to the system of slavery that exists independent of the concept of magocracy in Tevinter, but randomly murdering free citizens that I don't think anyone is allowed to do (and doing so to other peoples' slaves means you have to pay reparations).

I was talking about slaves. And while I'm sure a magister technically can't do that, when has a magister ever cared about the law? Certainly not more than any other noble. Finally, that still doesn't change the fact that the problems of being a mage and the problems of being a ruler are compounded. It's worse. For all involved. 

[Tevinter Soldier]

It would be interesting if we pull a Buffy in DAI and "slay magic". Severing the material world completely from the Fade would be very interesting. Presumably this would make all mages Tranquil but would this effect the emotional well being of humans, elves, and qunari? We know the Dwarves would be fine but I'm curious if we have really solid lore/canon backing on how deeply the Fade effects the dreams of non-mage, non-Dwarves?

 

except then you would make everyone tranquil not just mages.

All beings elves and humans especially are connected to the fade.

 

Mages simply have a stronger connection through mana that allows them to draw upon the power of the fade to manipulate and manifest physical reality.

 

Severing the fade connection in a mundane would have the same effect as it has on a mage. 

[Ieldra]

As with any group with power, it is plausible. As for peace, I don't forsee that ever coming into fruition, unless there are no mundanes or there are no magic users. Otherwise the mundanes will always fear what they don't understand and what they can't control.

As much as other nations would have you believe, none offer a perfect solution. There will always be nobles looking down on the poor and there will always be those with power and those with none.

The idealistic counterclaim is, of course this: that there isn't a perfect solution doesn't mean that there can't be a state of things with less internal tension and injustice than making one side dominant, and if that's so, we are obliged to try to bring it about.

 

I'm very curious about the options we'll be offered in DAI. They've said the mage/templar war will be dealt with early in the story, but DA has always been realistic or dystopian in things like this, so I very much doubt there's an ideal outcome.

[Icy Magebane]

except then you would make everyone tranquil not just mages.

All beings elves and humans especially are connected to the fade.

 

Mages simply have a stronger connection through mana that allows them to draw upon the power of the fade to manipulate and manifest physical reality.

 

Severing the fade connection in a mundane would have the same effect as it has on a mage. 

I don't think normal people can be made Tranquil... are there any examples of this?  In a novel or World of Thedas, perhaps?

[Br3admax]

I don't see why you wouldn't be able to. Or why you would try. 

[Xilizhra]

I was talking about slaves. And while I'm sure a magister technically can't do that, when has a magister ever cared about the law? Certainly not more than any other noble. Finally, that still doesn't change the fact that the problems of being a mage and the problems of being a ruler are compounded. It's worse. For all involved. 

I'm not seeing how, given that Rome had a similar law about being able to do whatever you wanted to your own slaves, and corruption of the ruling class exists literally everywhere while having nothing to do with magic.

[Medhia_Nox]

I believe mages can co-exist - but that it take a specific type of mage which does not consider him/herself superior based on the ability to do magic.  It also requires those mages to defend mundanes against such type of mages.

 

Otherwise - let the a-hole mage farm.  Why do you think Tevinter has slaves?  Because a bunch of pompous a-hole mages would never do menial chores.  The same - if Felassan is to be believed - of Arlathan.   Mages MUST keep slaves - they're too pompous and self-righteous to belittle themselves as they are "studying such important arcane lore" to do anything but have their heads up their magical asses.  

 

That I hardly seem to see mage players who don't consider themselves either intellectually or genetically superior to their lessers on the boards - I don't think it would be accurate to depict a large population of Thedosian mages who would want to actually "Serve man and not rule over him." 

 

As a mage - that means if the mages are not to going to police themselves - then I must assist the mundanes in policing them.  

  

[Xilizhra]

I believe mages can co-exist - but that it take a specific type of mage which does not consider him/herself superior based on the ability to do magic.  It also requires those mages to defend mundanes against such type of mages.

 

Otherwise - let the a-hole mage farm.  Why do you think Tevinter has slaves?  Because a bunch of pompous a-hole mages would never do menial chores.  The same - if Felassan is to be believed - of Arlathan.  

 

That I hardly seem to see mage players who don't consider themselves either intellectually or genetically superior to their lessers on the boards - I don't think it would be accurate to depict a large population of Thedosian mages who would want to actually "Serve man and not rule over him." 

 

As a mage - that means if the mages are not to going to police themselves - then I must assist the mundanes in policing them.  

Nobles never do menial chores regardless; that has nothing to do with magic. And the logical conclusion of your statement would require you to also police those of noble blood who'd also consider themselves superior; effectively you'd need to launch a populist revolution at the same time if you wanted any semblance of ethical consistency.

[lordsaren101]

You have a ton of slaves because you hire people to go to other nations and get more.

Yes and other nations are more than happy to oblige. Big money business.