359 réponses à ce sujet

[Icy Magebane]

I don't see why you wouldn't be able to. Or why you would try. 

As a more gruesome punishment than death?  That's a common reason for wanting to use it on certain mages...

[Medhia_Nox]

@Xilizhra:  I'm not a noble - why would I police nobles?  What about magic would make you at all worthy of distinction?  I would expect other nobles to police their fellows.

You know what happened when nobles DIDN'T police their fellows in our world?  Well - just ask the useless figurehead sitting on the throne of England.

 

I'm simply saying how I would act on Thedas.  As a mage - I'd fight any mage that sought to abuse mundanes because my unique talents (I would devote all my time to anti-magic - mana manipulation - healing - etc) would be specifically grounded in combating such threats.

 

Whether you think that's right or not - is actually not relevant. 

 

But if these boards are an indicator of the common mage mentality - I think there could be no peace between mage and mundanes.

[Steelcan]

In both kinds of goverment, it's perfectly plausible that you'll be be left alone as long as you pay your taxes and don't interfere with politics.

Until the mages need a few thousand people for a massive blood sacrifice

[lordsaren101]

Until the mages need a few thousand people for a massive blood sacrifice

Such is the lot of lesser beings. We each serve our place. Some rule and others serve. Sometimes that service is in sacrifice to something greater.

[Steelcan]

Putting a group into power because they are believed to be inherently superior is always a recipe for disaster

[lordsaren101]

Putting a group into power because they are believed to be inherently superior is always a recipe for disaster

That would depend on to whom the power rests. A wise ruler brings prosperity ( Augustus) a fool brings chaos (caligula).

[Medhia_Nox]

@Steelcan:  And where the Thedas mages are concerned - factually ignorant. 

 

They are clearly uneducated even in their own craft - let alone ANYTHING else.  They are simply mutants with a high opinion of themselves.  

 

There is a reason they're called "mages" and not "wizards" on Thedas - there's absolutely nothing wise or superior about them. 

 

That they act so is what causes the fear that causes them to feel ostracized.  Of course, then they act like innocent lambs.

 

@Lordsaren101: Prosperity for whom exactly?  

[Steelcan]

That would depend on to whom the power rests. A wise ruler brings prosperity ( Augustus) a fool brings chaos (caligula).

and that's why absolute monarchies have been mostly replaced by democracies and republics, the potential for abuse of the system is much reduced

[Xilizhra]

@Xilizhra:  I'm not a noble - why would I police nobles?  What about magic would make you at all worthy of distinction?  I would expect other nobles to police their fellows.

You know what happened when nobles DIDN'T police their fellows in our world?  Well - just ask the useless figurehead sitting on the throne of England.

 

I'm simply saying how I would act on Thedas.  As a mage - I'd fight any mage that sought to abuse mundanes because my unique talents (I would devote all my time to anti-magic - mana manipulation - healing - etc) would be specifically grounded in combating such threats.

 

Whether you think that's right or not - is actually not relevant. 

 

But if these boards are an indicator of the common mage mentality - I think there could be no peace between mage and mundanes.

My point isn't that magocracy is good, it's that it's not worse than anything else Thedas has to offer. If they ever figure out democracy, we can talk about that then.

[Steelcan]

My point isn't that magocracy is good, it's that it's not worse than anything else Thedas has to offer. If they ever figure out democracy, we can talk about that then.

it clearly isn't, unless you are going to point to Tevinter or Arlathan as a better form of government than say Ferelden's more limited monarchy

[lordsaren101]

and that's why absolute monarchies have been mostly replaced by democracies and republics, the potential for abuse of the system is much reduced

Democracies are just as bad. Elected officials abuse power just as badly, and in the end the elite still remain the elite. They just hide it behind alot of rhetoric.

[Xilizhra]

it clearly isn't, unless you are going to point to Tevinter or Arlathan as a better form of government than say Ferelden's more limited monarchy

Ferelden, too, sucks ass, and it's just as easy (and legal) to abuse the underclass there.

[lordsaren101]

A magocracy...let me rephrase Tevinter magicracy is the only way to go.

[Steelcan]

Democracies are just as bad. Elected officials abuse power just as badly, and in the end the elite still remain the elite. They just hide it behind alot of rhetoric.

Say what you will about democracies and republics, but the heads of states aren't allowed to rape their underlings wives in full view of everyone else, then seize the assets and property of those wronged if they raise objection.

 

Wall Street favoritism is a far cry from the abuses of Caligula, Elgalbalus, and such

[TheJediSaint]

it clearly isn't, unless you are going to point to Tevinter or Arlathan as a better form of government than say Ferelden's more limited monarchy

Ferelden seems to be one of the few counties where the monarchy can be held accountable.

[Xilizhra]

Say what you will about democracies and republics, but the heads of states aren't allowed to rape their underlings wives in full view of everyone else, then seize the assets and property of those wronged if they raise objection.

 

Wall Street favoritism is a far cry from the abuses of Caligula, Elgalbalus, and such

Yes... unlike the latter two, the former actually exists.

 

A great deal of Roman history is utter fabrication, and you can frequently spot it by recognizing exactly who angered the people who were writing said history, i.e. the upper class.

[Steelcan]

Ferelden, too, sucks ass, and it's just as easy (and legal) to abuse the underclass there.

Its still better than say Tevinter Magocracy

 

slavery is illegal (it may be practiced de facto by serfdom), the landowners such as the Bannorn are entitled to rights (ie Magna Carta) and there is a body of the government that the monarchy cannot act without

 

Its not a modern liberal democracy of course, but its easily the most progressive system we see in Thedas.

[Xilizhra]

Its still better than say Tevinter Magocracy

 

slavery is illegal (it may be practiced de facto by serfdom), the landowners such as the Bannorn are entitled to rights (ie Magna Carta) and there is a body of the government that the monarchy cannot act without

 

Its not a modern liberal democracy of course, but its easily the most progressive system we see in Thedas.

Ah, yes, I'm so glad to see that rich aristocrats are ensured their rights... not that Tevinter exactly seems like an absolute dictatorship, given that the archon still clearly needs to listen to the Senate consisting of the Imperium's own rich aristocrats.

 

If I was an elf mundane, I'd pretty much see it as six of one, half a dozen of the other. If I was an elf mage, I'd vastly prefer Tevinter.

[Steelcan]

A great deal of Roman history is utter fabrication, and you can frequently spot it by recognizing exactly who angered the people who were writing said history, i.e. the upper class

Most romans who wrote history weren't romans

 

Greeks had a near monopoly on history writing, rhetoric teaching, etc...

 

Of course its important to analyze bias in historical documents, which is why Nero probably wasn't as "let's burn Rome" as his critics said, but there is little reason to doubt the extent of Caligula's debauchery, or Claudius's wife behavior, forget her name Melissa or something.

[Xilizhra]

Most romans who wrote history weren't romans

 

Greeks had a near monopoly on history writing, rhetoric teaching, etc...

 

Of course its important to analyze bias in historical documents, which is why Nero probably wasn't as "let's burn Rome" as his critics said, but there is little reason to doubt the extent of Caligula's debauchery, or Claudius's wife behavior, forget her name Melissa or something.

True, I should have said "commissioned history." Caligula, however, angered the Senate a great deal with his policies that had nothing to do with his more absurd alleged debaucheries.

[TheJediSaint]

Greeks had a near monopoly on history writing, rhetoric teaching, etc...

 

Josephus Flavius would like a word.

[Steelcan]

Ah, yes, I'm so glad to see that rich aristocrats are ensured their rights... not that Tevinter exactly seems like an absolute dictatorship, given that the archon still clearly needs to listen to the Senate consisting of the Imperium's own rich aristocrats.

 

If I was an elf mundane, I'd pretty much see it as six of one, half a dozen of the other. If I was an elf mage, I'd vastly prefer Tevinter.

I didn't say it was on par with our modern enjoyment of rights, it isn't.

 

Tevinter's senate seems to be much of the same as the Imperial Roman senate, a bunch of people congratulating themselves on how great they are and using the body as tool to advance their own careers.  We have yet to hear of any tensions or war between the Tevinter Senate and the Archon.

 

meanwhile in Ferelden the Bannorn started a civil war against Loghain

[Steelcan]

Josephus Flavius would like a word.

near

[Xilizhra]

I didn't say it was on par with our modern enjoyment of rights, it isn't.

 

Tevinter's senate seems to be much of the same as the Imperial Roman senate, a bunch of people congratulating themselves on how great they are and using the body as tool to advance their own careers.  We have yet to hear of any tensions or war between the Tevinter Senate and the Archon.

 

meanwhile in Ferelden the Bannorn started a civil war against Loghain

Aside from that one time where other magisters had the archon killed? Or the long series of fights over who'd get to claim the site that would eventually become Kirkwall?

[Steelcan]

True, I should have said "commissioned history." Caligula, however, angered the Senate a great deal with his policies that had nothing to do with his more absurd alleged debaucheries.

Appointing his horse Consul and commissioning a marble stable for him speaks volumes for his sanity.

 

There is little "alleged" about his debauchery.  His outrageous behavior didn't win anyone over, but there is little reason to doubt many of the accounts.  Especially since the earlier accounts during his reign were so sympathetic because of his family history