359 réponses à ce sujet

[Steelcan]

Only in very early Rome, in later years slaves were partially protected by law, could file complaints against their masters, vote, hold land and of course be freed from/by their masters. While they themselves wouldn't (Libertini had no right to run for office), a freed slave's children would be counted as full citizens with full rights.

Slavery in ancient Rome was a very different institution than what most people, particularly Americans, imagine it as.

 

Probably because we are more familiar with plantation culture slavery

[lil yonce]

Wait, what? You want to take away the right of some men (the majority in fact) to preserve the right of other men?

 

That's okay because.... what, Mages are teh awes0me?

Well, its not okay to do the reverse, she's a mage, has no allegiance to mundanes, and this is if she has to choose between the two.

[Br3admax]

Only if you see the style of individual acts of brutality as being more significant than the existence of the concept, which I don't.

1. Demons

2. Blood Magic

3. Dreamers

4. Weakening of Veil, especially in political institutions, all magic does this

5. Using magic as a status symbol doesn't select for those politically adept

 

There are many more, but I really don't feel like that's necessary. 

[Medhia_Nox]

@lil yonce:  Has no allegiances to mundanes?  

 

Well - here's Example Zero as to why mage should be policed. 

[Hellion Rex]

Yay, magic!!! This is a thread I can get behind.

[Br3admax]

You don't want to be my enemy, Eluvianus. My power is greater than yours. 

[lil yonce]

@lil yonce:  Has no allegiances to mundanes?  

 

Well - here's Example Zero as to why mage should be policed. 

Well that's a bit too general, Pia has no allegiance to human beings at all despite being one herself. And certainly, mundanes have no allegiance to mages, so I don't know why she'd be singled out for that bias anyway. And don't take her for 'all mages would be horrible people like this'. Ieldra's mage inquisitor couldn't be more different. It benefits no one to live in a world where these things happen, where one group dominates another, and she would recognize that, but if its a choice between the two, she'd make it in favor of herself.

[Incantrix]

Slavery in ancient Rome was a very different institution than what most people, particularly Americans, imagine it as.

 

Probably because we are more familiar with plantation culture slavery

 

Tbh Slavery from most parts of the world was a different story from plantation slavery. 

 

For example. In western Africa, slaves weren't mistreated and typically were considered part of the family. They were less "slaves" and more indentured servants. They weren't always freed by their masters but were at least living comfortably and were given food and a place to sleep. 

 

Tis why when slaves were traded between Africa and America, the slave owners had no idea what they were doing and that American slavery was not what they had in mind. 

[Ryzaki]

Ugh hell no.

 

If they want to live in a society where mages rule they can take their asses to Tevinter.

[Hellion Rex]

You don't want to be my enemy, Eluvianus. My power is greater than yours. 

You have no power here...

[Incantrix]

Ugh hell no.

 

If they want to live in a society where mages rule they can take their asses to Tevinter.

 

How about this. You let the tower mages have their own society and you leave them alone. Capiche?

 

In fact. How about we all just ship the mages off to somewhere else and let them build their own (most likely superior) society? No mage wants to go to Tevinter because:

 

1)Magisters still hold the power

2)Mages can still be slaves

3)Tevinter doesn't really accept circle mages much anyway. Unless they have particular ability like being a dreamer.

[Steelcan]

How about we don't do that, and avoid another sundering of the veil and round of demonic possessions

[The Baconer]

In fact. How about we all just ship the mages off to somewhere else and let them build their own (most likely superior) society? No mage wants to go to Tevinter because:

 

They'd never do that. Mages are too useful.

[Ryzaki]

How about this. You let the tower mages have their own society and you leave them alone. Capiche?

 

In fact. How about we all just ship the mages off to somewhere else and let them build their own (most likely superior) society? No mage wants to go to Tevinter because:

 

1)Magisters still hold the power

2)Mages can still be slaves

3)Tevinter doesn't really accept circle mages much anyway. Unless they have particular ability like being a dreamer.

 

Nope not as long as they're near us. If they want to move their rears far away then by all means. 

 

Also lol at most likely superior. And if you think there won't end up being a class system in a mage run society you're fooling yourself.

[Ieldra]

How about we all just ship the mages off to somewhere else and let them build their own (most likely superior) society?

A mage society can go bad as easily as any other, but I would promote that, except that mageborn children are born to non-mageborn parents and vice versa. What are you going to do in these cases?

[Br3admax]

How about we don't do that, and avoid another sundering of the veil and round of demonic possessions

I think there's something you should know....

[ComedicSociopathy]

I don't like oppression. I don't mages oppressing mundanes and I don't like mundanes oppressing mages. Nobles oppressing the peasantry also doesn't rank very highly on my list of favorite things. So yeah, I'm not in favor of mage supremacism of any kind. It's wrong, it's ugly and it's already been shown to not work that well in Thedas. Mages aren't inherently better leaders then normal people. Their just more powerful, and having more physical power then most other people doesn't make you destined to lead. If that were case then jocks and gun-nuts would be the emperors of the world. 

 

Also, and I hope what I'm about to say doesn't come off as an attack on some of the people in the forum, I think that some of the people here who are in favor of mage supremacism aren't seeing things from the perspectives of the ovcerwhelming majority of people who would be slaves or second-class citizens in this type of governance. You seriously can't believe that you would be ok with living in a society that would outright deny you the ability to seek political power or equal rights just because you can't shoot lightning from your finger tips. 

[ComedicSociopathy]

A mage society can go bad as easily as any other, but I would promote that, except that mageborn children are born to non-mageborn parents and vice versa. What are you going to do in these cases?

 

Dealing with non-mage children would be a major problem for such a exclusive mage society to be sure. Also, I really don't see why it would be impossible for mages to integrate into Thedas as respected equals with useful abilities that could enrich everybody's lives. The Avvar, Dalish and Rivaini have managed to do it and with time, co-operation, goodwill and luck the rest of Thedas could accomplish such a society as well.

 

Co-existence isn't overly idealistic or improbable. It can exist in the world. 

[Icy Magebane]

A mage society can go bad as easily as any other, but I would promote that, except that mageborn children are born to non-mageborn parents and vice versa. What are you going to do in these cases?

I would assume that something similar to the Tevinter system would arise in time... the only thing I'm skeptical about is the idea that this new society will necessarily become as brutal and oppressive as Tevinter is in some cases.  The Tevinter Imperium is an ancient nation that has practiced slavery for thousands of years... oppression of the weak is deeply ingrained into their cultural identity, but there is no guarantee that all countries run by mages would fall prey to the same vices and immoral behaviors.  So while I think it is inevitable that mages would rule, I don't think that this is necessarily a bad thing... as you say, it could go either way.  If the mages can manage to escape from the White Chantry nations, I have no problem with them forming a nation... assuming they can get all of this set up without being hunted down by multiple Exalted Marches, of course...

[Magister Caedus]

I don't like oppression. I don't mages oppressing mundanes and I don't like mundanes oppressing mages. Nobles oppressing the peasantry also doesn't rank very highly on my list of favorite things. So yeah, I'm not in favor of mage supremacism of any kind. It's wrong, it's ugly and it's already been shown to not work that well in Thedas. Mages aren't inherently better leaders then normal people. Their just more powerful, and having more physical power then most other people doesn't make you destined to lead. If that were case then jocks and gun-nuts would be the emperors of the world. 

 

Also, and I hope what I'm about to say doesn't come off as an attack on some of the people in the forum, I think that some of the people here who are in favor of mage supremacism aren't seeing things from the perspectives of the ovcerwhelming majority of people who would be slaves or second-class citizens in this type of governance. You seriously can't believe that you would be ok with living in a society that would outright deny you the ability to seek political power or equal rights just because you can't shoot lightning from your finger tips. 

(objective mode)

Supremacy isn't about them being better leaders or better people, but simply the better creature. Would not a soldier find his job easier if he could "shoot lightning from his fingertips"? Wouldn't it be simpler for a smith if he could produce his own flame? 

As far as a mage-supremacist society being innately oppressive - just because Tevinter is oppressive of mundanes does not mean all such societies would be the same. Some could see it as their duty to shepherd the more unfortunate, taking pity upon them.

(/objective mode)

(opinion)

And jocks and gun-nuts... really? Would that not be the intellectuals and philosophers? Not only would they be more likely to support such a society, but actually be able to create it. I, for one would support a great Philosopher-King.

(/opinion)

[RobRam10]

Mundanes need to be enslave so that the true masters of this world can properly rule.

[Uccio]

There can be peace if mages are under 100 % non-mages control and locked so they couldn't escape and then we will have peace. 

 

If you seek rather lets to be honest naive hug-hug kiss-kiss solution good luck with that simple 1 have to dominate or destroy other or there will be war that is pretty much how life works.

 

If you are mage best solution would be search for more power then dominate everyone but then you pretty much don't want other mages around for various reasons.   

 

Mages and templars will have peace, when templars and all their works have perished-and the works of their dark master Chantry whom templars would deliver us mages.

 

We shall have peace.

 

We shall have peace when templars answer for the annulment of the Kirkwall Circle, and the children that lie dead there. When the lives of the mages, whose bodies lay dead in the circle and the city are avenged! When Divine hangs from a gibbet, for the sport of her own crows, we shall have peace.

 

 

 

 

 

[Dean_the_Young]

Replace magic with wealth, and you've described every other nation in Thedas.

 

Replace one thing with another thing that only loosely has the same properties, and you can describe almost anything anywhere at any time.
 

[Br3admax]

Not true, Dean. Bill Gates is planning to attack hurricanes as we speak. It's only a matter of time until he opens up the wormhole to the realm of bankers, loansharks, and capital.  

[StrangeStrategy]

There can be no peace. Non-Mages only want to cage and enslave mages, out of fear and jealousy. Mage supremacy is the only logical and rightful outcome of a long brewing conflict. Hail hydra...grr wrong universe..Hail Tevinter!

 

Fear, not jealously. You think people are jealous of mages? Only in Tevinter do people envy mages. You know, the land of "sacrifice the servant child to entertain my guests will Blood Magic".