1325 réponses à ce sujet

[Icy Magebane]

 

Fine, let's just drop it then. You keep the practice of making Templars addicts on a pedestal if you want, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. 

I never put anyone on a pedestal.  This whole time I've been saying that they fill a necessary and irreplaceable role, which is true, at least within the White Chantry nations...

 

Neither is you using more minor drugs to make your case that the two aren't related. 

 

No, they just have to be murderers. So much better. 

 

What on Earth are you talking about, and how does it relate to the Templar Order?

[Stronglav]

I'm not here to support the templars.I'm here to say:I hate them.

Brainwashed robots.Come and taste the fireball!!

[Hanako Ikezawa]

They certainly can, and may reach the point of drinking Lyrium to do so.

Yeah, Samson certainly seemed like he would be less stressed if he got some Lyrium. To the point he'd smuggle mage children away from Kirkwall to but some.

 

 

 

I never put anyone on a pedestal.  This whole time I've been saying that they fill a necessary and irreplaceable role, which is true, at least within the White Chantry nations...

Except they don't fit an irreplaceable role. I've explained alternatives and you brush them aside to defend your position.  

 

 

What on Earth are you talking about, and how does it relate to the Templar Order?

That was to the part involving Chevaliers, not Templars. Since part of the Chevalier's initiation is murdering a City Elf. 

[AresKeith]

 

Yeah, Samson certainly seemed like he would be less stressed if he got some Lyrium. To the point he'd smuggle mage children away from Kirkwall to but some.

 

Samson was also an ex-Templar

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Samson was also an ex-Templar

Doesn't matter. The addiction doesn't go away just because you leave the Templars. 

[Lulupab]

 

They deal physical yes. But you still fail to comprehend what Magic Resistance does. It LESSENS the duration of debuffs. Meaning that with 50% magic resistance, the debuff which lasts 2 seconds would only last 1 second. Hemorrhage does NOT remove Magic Resistance. Which means that a Templar will more quickly regain his defenses, meaning he can tank the spell more easily than others. You claim = DEBUNKED for bullshit.
 

 Which would mean you would bring a mediocre tank, miss out on a dual wield rogue dps, all for your vaunted DPSZOR fail warrior..... Great... You coutnered what exactly? I didn't say your build was impossible. On the other hand, you said that ALL other warrior builds were straight up unviable. Your claim = DEBUNKED for bullshit.

 

Yeah... No... They are not. It is basic math. ESPECIALLY in the party setup you just provided. Where half the stamina of the warrior would cosntatly have to be spent defensively just to keep him alive. Unless you want to spend all the mana of the amges on keeping him alive, and thus not dealing damage, thus lowering your overall damage output. Thus failing to achieve your vaunted max dps.

Again DEBUNKED for failure.

PS. I've tried ALL possible builds in DA2, I just strongly prefer the one with a warrior who can actually tank and CC, instead of pretend dps.
 

Uhm... Yeah some boss mobs are immune to silence? Guess what? Boss mobs are immune to MANY things, including half the cc a mage can provide. However, the Templar can STILL dispel all captains' auras, and tank enemy magic more easily. So the only thing you managed to coutner is, that a Tempalrs 100% chacne to silence doesn't work on some specific targets. Big woop I guess? And Tevinter Mages are not immune to silence, since they are not covered by the Slaver type enemy.

 

So in conclusion: The enemies that the Templar cannot silence, can all be dispelled for their AoE effects.

 

It has become redundant by now to explain the status of your claims.

 

You better be done, since you apparently got no grasp at all on the game mechanics...

 

And please, if you are going to use a "prima" guide for ANY advise regarding gaming, you might aswell not try to be an elitist scumbag, and jsut stop all together. Prima guides are not even worth wiping your ass with when it comes to theory crafting. There is ONE true and accepted way, and that is actually experimenting with it yourself.

 

 

So you couldn't bring anything new to the table, you change the topic to the duration of blood magic CC, something I didn't even talk about. I simply said Templar has zero protection against the damage and I was right. Something you've been doing this whole argument. 

 

Except Prima guide have been wrong about few plot points (outdated lore) and all of the things said about gameplay are absolutely correct. You are simply stretching against things proven as facts.

 

Here, watch this 4 minutes video and learn the true power of warrior. Tanking is irrelevant when enemies die in matter of seconds. Barriers do all the job, immune to damage for 7 seconds. That is like the duration of whole fights. Oh and its nightmare and as you see, she mostly uses the team combination I tell you which really doesn't need a tank.

 

[SmilesJA]

So you couldn't bring anything new to the table, you change the topic to the duration of blood magic CC, something I didn't even talk about. I simply said Templar has zero protection against the damage and I was right. Something you've been doing this whole argument. 

 

Except Prima guide have been wrong about few plot points (outdated lore) and all of the things said about gameplay are absolutely correct. You are simply stretching against things proven as facts.

 

Here, watch this 4 minutes video and learn the true power of warrior. Tanking is irrelevant when enemies die in matter of seconds. Barriers do all the job, immune to damage for 7 seconds. That is like the duration of whole fights.

 

 

And that's why I'll playing a DPS warrior for Inquisition.

[Icy Magebane]

Except they don't fit an irreplaceable role. I've explained alternatives and you brush them aside to defend your position.  

I'm not trying to be dismissive, I simply disagree that soldiers equipped with magical weapons and armor are equal to Templars who have access to the same equipment... like I said before, the Templars would have the advantage here because they would have all the benefits of enchanted gear as well as access to special abilities that specifically lock down mages.  The idea of using runes to contain mages seems like it would be a good way to supplement the Templars, but not replace them... I also think that you may be underestimating the cost of implementing such a change.  It seems like anti-magic wards would be a logical inclusion in the Circles' security measures but so far they have only been seen inscribed into the walls and door of the Phylactery Chamber in DA:O... it seems like this would be more widespread if it was a viable option, so there must be some reason why it's not used more often.

 

That was to the part involving Chevaliers, not Templars. Since part of the Chevalier's initiation is murdering a City Elf. 

I still don't see how Chevalier orientation is related to lyrium use by Templars... the Chevaliers could easily replace this practice with killing a wild animal while intoxicated.  It seems that this is more related to Orlesian culture than any specific need... maybe I'm missing something, but I don't think Chevaliers lose any of their fighting skill if they don't kill any elves before officially joining the order.

[Lulupab]

And that's why I'll playing a DPS warrior for Inquisition.

 

Its insane, she deals 450 damage WITH EACH ATTACK and crits for 1200 (on normal enemies). mage spells deal the same amount of damage, and they rarely crit due to mages not getting much crit chance.

[Icy Magebane]

And that's why I'll playing a DPS warrior for Inquisition.

I wouldn't count on having access to that much attack speed... hopefully I'm wrong, though.

[dragonflight288]

Thats the road to anullment right there. Templars keep mages safe by weeding out those unable to handle to temptations of the fade or the lure of forbidden magic. Scale back that supervision and its just a matter of time before abominations run wild.

 

It's not supervision that Lil Yonce is talking about, but governance. 

 

The original Nevarran Accord said that the mages would be governed by a council of senior magi and they would be free to practice their magic as they chose, and they would be supervised and watched by the templars. 

 

Over time, this has become subverted, and the templars became governors of circle affairs and mages had to jump through hoops set by the chantry and the templars. 

 

That is not the original agreement. 

 

As long as the Circle's existed, templars were there to take care of abominations and blood mages, as they were supervising, but they were never given the authority to actually govern the Circle's or set policy. The Nevarran Accord granted that right to the mages themselves so they could have a self-contained society within the circle's. 

[Lulupab]

Its the berserker, any enemy that dies grants 35% attack speed for 10 seconds. It stacks indefinitely.

[dragonflight288]

It's not like that at all... nobody is forcing people to join the Templars and they are made aware of the risks well in advance.  This isn't like the Grey Wardens where they don't tell you the Joining is potentially fatal until you're at the ceremony and don't bother to explain the side effects until after the new recruit is Tainted.  Drug dealers "make" people addicted for their own benefit, in order to make money... Templars subject themselves to lyrium addiction in order to fulfill a specific duty that cannot be efficiently done in any other way...  I'm afraid this is just a very poor comparison...

 

I'm not even sure what you are meaning to imply by pointing out the problems Templars have with blood magic... are you trying to say that because they have difficulty with blood magic, they should also give up their attempts to control the mages that their powers can effect?  Because that doesn't make much sense...  normal mages are still dangerous, and the Templar's powers have an effect on abominations regardless of whether or not the possessed mage knew anything about blood magic.  Normal warriors have no such advantages and thus would not be effective replacements...

 

I'm pretty sure that if it were possible to just build a huge ward to nullify magic, that would be incorporated into every circle already... over the course of several centuries, the Chantry would have figured this out if it was a viable alternative... even if they still wanted to have the Templars as a personal army, an invention like this would make their jobs a lot easier and lower Templar fatalities in the event of uprisings.  If this were possible, there is no reason why they wouldn't already be using such wards to supplement the Templars...

 

It is possible. Mage origin, the door into th phylactery chamber is warded to negate magic. 

[Lulupab]

It is possible. Mage origin, the door into th phylactery chamber is warded to negate magic. 

 

The question is, does it negate blood magic or fade entities too? I mean can it stop a pride demon from using magic?? I seriously doubt it. In fact if Wynne and Anders walked there they would be unaffected as they are immune to tranquility as well since their connection to the fade can never be cut when the have fade itself living inside them.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I'm not trying to be dismissive, I simply disagree that soldiers equipped with magical weapons and armor are equal to Templars who have access to the same equipment... like I said before, the Templars would have the advantage here because they would have all the benefits of enchanted gear as well as access to special abilities that specifically lock down mages.  The idea of using runes to contain mages seems like it would be a good way to supplement the Templars, but not replace them... I also think that you may be underestimating the cost of implementing such a change.  It seems like anti-magic wards would be a logical inclusion in the Circles' security measures but so far they have only been seen inscribed into the walls and door of the Phylactery Chamber in DA:O... it seems like this would be more widespread if it was a viable option, so there must be some reason why it's not used more often.

 

I still don't see how Chevalier orientation is related to lyrium use by Templars... the Chevaliers could easily replace this practice with killing a wild animal while intoxicated.  It seems that this is more related to Orlesian culture than any specific need... maybe I'm missing something, but I don't think Chevaliers lose any of their fighting skill if they don't kill any elves before officially joining the order.

I', not saying the Templars wouldn't be better. What I'm saying is that advantage is not worth all the costs that comes with it. But instead of seeking new and better solutions, the old practices just keep going. 

 

And as I said, the reason it isn't implemnted large scale is most likely because then there would be no problems with Circle mages and thus not a very interesting plot around them. So it was sacrificed for story. 

 

The Chavalier initiation was just a tangent in response to the "They don't have to be rapists" part of your post. 

[Icy Magebane]

It is possible. Mage origin, the door into th phylactery chamber is warded to negate magic. 

I'm not denying that.  I just think that if these warding runes were simple to create or easily available, they would be all over the place, not just the entrance to a high security area.  Why not prevent mages from casting spells throughout the Circle and limit them to practicing in a few designated areas?  Unless this is a plot hole, there must be some reason for it... it has been a thousand years, so... what's been stopping them from doing this?

 

And as I said, the reason it isn't implemnted large scale is most likely because then there would be no problems with Circle mages and thus not a very interesting plot around them. So it was sacrificed for story. 

That would be unfortunate... I don't expect DA to be Shakespeare, but the world should at least make logical sense...  I won't rule out that possibility though...

[dragonflight288]

The question is, does it negate blood magic or fade entities too? I mean can it stop a pride demon from using magic?? I seriously doubt it. In fact if Wynne and Anders walked there they would be unaffected as they are immune to tranquility as well since their connection to the fade can never be cut when the have fade itself living inside them.

 

That....I have no clue. Pharamond in Asunder was able to contain himself, but....yeah. 

 

I suppose it may be possible if the wards are formed with lyrium runes. As the tranquil at Ostagar says, any spell can be given permancy with enough lyrium and knowledge of runes. 

[dragonflight288]

I'm not denying that.  I just think that if these warding runes were simple to create or easily available, they would be all over the place, not just the entrance to a high security area.  Why not prevent mages from casting spells throughout the Circle and limit them to practicing in a few designated areas?  Unless this is a plot hole, there must be some reason for it... it has been a thousand years, so... what's been stopping them from doing this?

 

That would be unfortunate... I don't expect DA to be Shakespeare, but the world should at least make logical sense...

 

If the wards are made with lyrium, it would probably be way too expensive to ward entire buildings. 

[The Baconer]

Unless this is a plot hole, there must be some reason for it... it has been a thousand years, so... what's been stopping them from doing this?

 

Expenses from both the cost of Lyrium and labor (enchanters). There's also the fact that it seems a lot of the Circles weren't specifically built for that purpose (Gallows, Kinloch Hold), so there would probably be a lot of headaches with retrofitting all these enchantments to standing architecture.

[Icy Magebane]

If the wards are made with lyrium, it would probably be way too expensive to ward entire buildings. 

 

Expenses from both the cost of Lyrium and labor (enchanters). There's also the fact that it seems a lot of the Circles weren't specifically built for that purpose (Gallows, Kinloch Hold), so there would probably be a lot of headaches with retrofitting all these enchantments to standing architecture.

Sounds good to me...

[Hanako Ikezawa]

If the wards are made with lyrium, it would probably be way too expensive to ward entire buildings. 

And yet they can afford to constantly get enough Lyrium for all the magical rituals and supply the  Templars their fix? 

[SmilesJA]

Its the berserker, any enemy that dies grants 35% attack speed for 10 seconds. It stacks indefinitely.

 

Unfortunately, there'll be no berserkers in Inquistion. Hopefully the Reaver class will make up for it.

[raging_monkey]

And yet they can afford to constantly get enough Lyrium for all the magical rituals and supply the  Templars their fix?

allocation of resources mostl likly its cheaper to buy what is needed and not for extra secrutity

[EmperorSahlertz]

So you couldn't bring anything new to the table, you change the topic to the duration of blood magic CC, something I didn't even talk about. I simply said Templar has zero protection against the damage and I was right. Something you've been doing this whole argument. 

 

Except Prima guide have been wrong about few plot points (outdated lore) and all of the things said about gameplay are absolutely correct. You are simply stretching against things proven as facts.

 

Here, watch this 4 minutes video and learn the true power of warrior. Tanking is irrelevant when enemies die in matter of seconds. Barriers do all the job, immune to damage for 7 seconds. That is like the duration of whole fights. Oh and its nightmare and as you see, she mostly uses the team combination I tell you which really doesn't need a tank.

And it is here by confirmed.. You are just a fanboy.

 

Tankiness goes way beyond the ability to absorb the flat damage. I said, from the very get go, that by virtue of the increased magic resistance would be able to better withstand Blood Mages' spells. That is, no matter how much you boast and pose, true to the end of the day. The debuff recieved lasts for a shorter duration, meaning the Templar gets his resistances back before the end of the spell, meaning he can tank it. So no, you were not right. You were just cherry picking, and trying to define what being tanky meant, to better suit your percieved master build.

 

Oh, and that is certainly a nice little video. Your point? Rogues and Mages STILL deal more damage. That is the sad truth that you seem reluctant to accept. You can reach crits over 300k with DW rogues, far more easily than with a warrior.

At the end of the day any build is viable. And THAT is all I need to point out, to debunk your bullshit calim, that only a specific warrior build is viable. Yes. Your proposed built warrior deals more damage. So? You don't pick Templar for the DPS. You pick it for the control and the tank.

You prefer damage, more power to you. Don't you dare however, claim that other people's playthrough is unviable jsut because they play a way you dislike.

As I said, anything is viable. ESPECIALLY since the game to start with is pathetically easy, so that even on the hardest difficulty, you can solo it easily (with any class even).

[dragonflight288]

And yet they can afford to constantly get enough Lyrium for all the magical rituals and supply the  Templars their fix? 

 

The Chantry buys lyrium in bulk, but they really are only getting the leftovers that the dwarves don't use themselves. And then they have to supply the templars AND the mages across 14 circles throughout thedas. 

 

Add in templars addiction, some of them turning to smuggling to get more, the mages use for magical rituals, the required use of lyrium to turn a mage tranquil, the Harrowing, and supplying each and every templar, they likely only have enough to ward individual, high security rooms afterwards.