1325 réponses à ce sujet

[Daerog]

That's not the Imperial model, since templars are still on top under it. 

 

Well, Thrask and Evangeline were pretty much working more for the Circle than the Templar Order with what they chose to do. So, they would probably be more for the Imperial model with the Templars working more for the mages than being neutral enforcers of the rules laid down by the Order and the Chantry.

 

Keran is just a recruit, he can go either way.

 

I just find the Templars that go rogue to be dangerous for the whole system, that includes super anti-mage Templars and super pro-mage Templars.

[Daerog]

 

As for me, I find Emerick to be a model templar. There is no indication whatsoever that he abuses his charges at all. He is concerned about the safety of mages, and when one of them disappeared, as he looked into it he noticed several other women were also disappearing under similar circumstances, and tried investigating the source, despite being hindered by his own superiors and the city guard, he held public safety as priority number one.

 

Ser Otto is also a model templar. He volunteers to track down what is rumored to be a maleficar, finds no evidence, but knows something is going on and wants to help the alienage, and it's his instincts that lead the Warden to discovering the weak veil in the alienage now overrun with demons. 

 

Personally, I feel most templars have forgotten that their primary duty includes protecting mages, not just protecting the world from mages, but there are exceptions, Evangeline, Emerick, Otto, Bryant and such. 

 

 

I liked Emerick and Otto as well. However, I didn't like that they were solo. Seemed very unprofessional... unless you're Cullen, then your fan-armor can let you do anything. Although, they were going beyond their orders in doing what they did, so...

[Xilizhra]

From years of debates and such, I know Xil has strong feelings on templars. She doesn't think all templars are bad, but she does think the entire system, and many in the templar order itself, is corrupt and far too prone to abuse of power. She also doesn't support mages ruling. She does call for mage freedoms from templars and Chantry oversight as she feels they've lost the trust to have it.

Conveniently, the Chantry/Order split has now left me feeling pretty confident that everyone who still holds allegiance to the Templar Order is bad.

 

 

Except he actually does his duty, and not abuse it

Again, such is the problem. It's inherent in the system, not in the corruption of individuals.

[dragonflight288]

Well, Thrask and Evangeline were pretty much working more for the Circle than the Templar Order with what they chose to do. So, they would probably be more for the Imperial model with the Templars working more for the mages than being neutral enforcers of the rules laid down by the Order and the Chantry.

 

Keran is just a recruit, he can go either way.

 

I just find the Templars that go rogue to be dangerous for the whole system, that includes super anti-mage Templars and super pro-mage Templars.

 

Thrask wasn't really working for the Circle, but rather was working to depose Meredith as he felt she was showing herself unfit to rule by interfering with Kirkwall's politics and giving templars far too much power, and was working with individual templars and mages. If he was working for the Circle, it would have been sanctioned, or at least Orsino would have known about it. 

 

Evangeline was working for the principles on what being a templar is all about. Serving the greater good. Protecting the world from mages, but also protecting mages from the world. The templars under Lambert didn't even bother consider protecting mages from anything, least of all themselves. 

 

You're right about Keran. 

 

And yes, templars going rogue is dangerous, especially when you take into account their lyrium addiction. Shame most of them HAVE gone rogue over idealistic reasons on what they want mages to do and not what the Nevarran Accord actually promised what mages could have (Mages governing their lives in Circles, while only supervised and watched by templars, but mages chose the path of their own insular societies. History of the Circle Codex)

[dragonflight288]

I liked Emerick and Otto as well. However, I didn't like that they were solo. Seemed very unprofessional... unless you're Cullen, then your fan-armor can let you do anything. Although, they were going beyond their orders in doing what they did, so...

 

Otto volunteered, and I think he says in dialogue that there were others who abandoned the search after finding no evidence, but he kept up the investigation. Emerick was actively hindered by his superiors AND the city guard, despite finding evidence. Yes, he was given orders no to keep investigating, but he was ultimately right.

 

Considering that in Act 1 that a bunch of demons and shades fight Hawke, a man leaves the scene, and a bag of human bones are discovered, I would expect nothing less than a full squad of templars searching the foundry top to bottom based on that evidence. Instead, Aveline dismisses it despite possibly being there, Meredith sucks up to the nobles, and Emerick is forced to rely on outside help. 

 

To me, the actions followed up on after the evidence is gathered, and the actions actually required in the face of such evidence, are an utter failure on both the parts of the guard and the templars. 

[Daerog]

Well, I've voiced my support for the Three Party System controlling the Circles. Templars, Seekers, and Enchanters. Enchanters can join Seekers if Senior Templars unanimously (or large majority) approve, and Templars can join Seekers if Senior Enchanters unanimously (or large majority) approve. Templars enforce, police, and hunt. Enchanters run local Circles. Seekers set overall policy and control the Circle as a whole, taking care of larger matters or policing the Enchanters and Templars.

 

However, such discussion has been for many old threads. Back on topic... *ahem* Yay! Go Magic Police, Go! (I may be leaning more towards the Imperial Chantry recently, but I still like supporting the Templars in mage vs templar debates...)

[dragonflight288]

Conveniently, the Chantry/Order split has now left me feeling pretty confident that everyone who still holds allegiance to the Templar Order is bad.

 

 

 

Out of curiosity, do you see allegiance to the Divine after Lambert's split for the few templars that didn't leave the Chantry as good ones?

[raging_monkey]

Well, I've voiced my support for the Three Party System controlling the Circles. Templars, Seekers, and Enchanters. Enchanters can join Seekers if Senior Templars unanimously (or large majority) approve, and Templars can join Seekers if Senior Enchanters unanimously (or large majority) approve. Templars enforce, police, and hunt. Enchanters run local Circles. Seekers set overall policy and control the Circle as a whole, taking care of larger matters or policing the Enchanters and Templars.
 
However, such discussion has been for many old threads. Back on topic... *ahem* Yay! Go Magic Police, Go! (I may be leaning more towards the Imperial Chantry recently, but I still like supporting the Templars in mage vs templar debates...)

im curious to know more of your system. I side with the isolationists nowadays and i personally think its viable.

[Daerog]

Out of curiosity, do you see allegiance to the Divine after Lambert's split for the few templars that didn't leave the Chantry as good ones?

 

You are forgetting the ones who joined the mages. The Templars have many options to side with in this fight... mages, not so much.

[Star fury]

Greagoir was still an *******. Summary executions and mind rape ahoy...

Examples of "summary executions" and "mind rape" under Greagoir?

[Xilizhra]

Out of curiosity, do you see allegiance to the Divine after Lambert's split for the few templars that didn't leave the Chantry as good ones?

I'm tentatively open to rapprochement with them.

[Xilizhra]

Examples of "summary executions" and "mind rape" under Gregoir?

Well, more attempts to do so with Jowan. But also for every other Tranquil in the tower who wasn't voluntary.

[Daerog]

im curious to know more of your system. I side with the isolationists nowadays and i personally think its viable.

 

Isolationist may be good for individual mages, but not for an overall system, as you would have to constantly ship mages to some land that will give birth to non mage and mage children and it would just be another Thedas. The idea I proposed (wouldn't call it my own) is a more secular form of governing since some people have issues with the Chantry, and this (hopefully) allows the purpose of the Circle to remain intact (so it wouldn't be like the Imperial Circles... although, like I said, I'm more leaning towards Tevinter currently, at least for rp purposes) while also having mundanes and mages work more closely together since both will fill the ranks of the Seekers and will also break this "Mage against x" kind of mentality since it will be mages and mundanes policing and hunting rogue mages.

 

However, this is more for Circle threads... but this is a Templar thread...

 

The templars are necessary (even for Tevinter I would argue), and The Templar Order should not include mages, just like Enchanters should not include mundanes, just so priorities can be maintained within their separate duties, but Seekers will include both so neither would feel unfairly oppressed by the other... a balanced system... hopefully...

[Star fury]

Well, more attempts to do so with Jowan. But also for every other Tranquil in the tower who wasn't voluntary.

I hope you do know that Jowan was a blood mage and maleficar with his execution being totally justified. Do you have a proof of mages who were made tranquil nonvoluntary in Ferelden Circle? That was the thing of bedlam house under Meredith in Kirkwall.

[Inquisitor Julianos]

this sounds alot like the argument of "The Chantry is Evil"

[Master Warder Z_]

Evangeline is a traitor to the Order.

A living insult to the Templars.

[AresKeith]

Well, more attempts to do so with Jowan. But also for every other Tranquil in the tower who wasn't voluntary.

 

Jowan is literally the worst example, and hurts your own argument

 

And where's your proof for the tranquil part other than people who don't do there Harrowing

[Xilizhra]

I hope you do know that Jowan was a blood mage and maleficar with his execution totally justified. Do you have a proof of mages who were made tranquil nonvoluntary in Ferelden Circle? That was the thing of bedlam house under Meredith in Kirkwall.

I don't believe in the death penalty, especially one without a fair trial.

 

And Kirkwall's unique thing was making Harrowed mages Tranquil. It's totally legal to force apprentices into Tranquility, and this was done in Ferelden.

[Daerog]

I hope you do know that Jowan was a blood mage and maleficar with his with his execution totally justified. Do you have a proof of mages who were made tranquil nonvoluntary in Ferelden Circle? That was the thing of bedlam house under Meredith in Kirkwall.

 

Well, technically Jowan would have been a nonvoluntary Tranquil. Xil is against the whole Tranquil thing it seems and is against the death penalty (which is respectable, besides that one woman who did blood magic and was responsible for killing Templars was given isolated imprisonment and not put to death, and she found faith, so why not Jowan? Kind of funny that she was given a cell and not Tranquilized in a place that was doing illegal Tranquilizations, but Jowan was made Tranquil if given over to the Circle, which my mage warden did).

[Inquisitor Julianos]

The Templars perform a service much needed to Thedas, and if People dont like it "F**K you buddy" Magic is Dangerous, no matter who the hell you are, Wynne said it best, No One is Free from Demon Posession, from the newest initiate to the most seasoned Enchanter. Mages, yes they should decide how they do things, but They should not be left to their own devices when with one tempertantrum, they start a cataclysmic war, "im Lookin at you Anders" *Dramatic Point*.

 

That Being said, i argued the chantry wasd corrupted from its Base Ideals, its impossible for a global organization NOT to be corrupted over centuries and millenia with the changing of hands and people who only have a life span of MAYBE 70 years (it is a medieval setting, healthcare sucks).

[raging_monkey]

Isolationist may be good for individual mages, but not for an overall system, as you would have to constantly ship mages to some land that will give birth to non mage and mage children and it would just be another Thedas. The idea I proposed (wouldn't call it my own) is a more secular form of governing since some people have issues with the Chantry, and this (hopefully) allows the purpose of the Circle to remain intact (so it wouldn't be like the Imperial Circles... although, like I said, I'm more leaning towards Tevinter currently, at least for rp purposes) while also having mundanes and mages work more closely together since both will fill the ranks of the Seekers and will also break this "Mage against x" kind of mentality since it will be mages and mundanes policing and hunting rogue mages.
 
However, this is more for Circle threads... but this is a Templar thread...
 
The templars are necessary (even for Tevinter I would argue), and The Templar Order should not include mages, just like Enchanters should not include mundanes, just so priorities can be maintained within their separate duties, but Seekers will include both so neither would feel unfairly oppressed by the other... a balanced system... hopefully...

interesting thank you

[Inquisitor Julianos]

*takes the templars, throws em into a pot, takes the mages, throws them into the same pot, takes the Seekers, in a Pot, Elves? Pot. Dwarves? Pot, Qunari? Pot. Everybody Else? Pot.* "aaaaaand thats the Inquisition for you, dont worry Thedas? we got everyone covered" *aaaaaaaaand Now were playing Warhammer 40k*

[Star fury]

I don't believe in the death penalty, especially one without a fair trial.

And Kirkwall's unique thing was making Harrowed mages Tranquil. It's totally legal to force apprentices into Tranquility, and this was done in Ferelden.

Let me explain to you that DA setting is not a XXI century with a secular democracy, Thedas is medieval with very harsh laws. Your modern ideals are out of touch with a setting. People will be executed, and Jowan's execution is totally justified and realistic. Sparing him with a modern humanism is not.

Do you have a proof that mages were made tranquil without their consent in the Ferelden Circle under Greagoir?

[In Exile]

Well, Thrask and Evangeline were pretty much working more for the Circle than the Templar Order with what they chose to do. So, they would probably be more for the Imperial model with the Templars working more for the mages than being neutral enforcers of the rules laid down by the Order and the Chantry.

Keran is just a recruit, he can go either way.

I just find the Templars that go rogue to be dangerous for the whole system, that includes super anti-mage Templars and super pro-mage Templars.

Doing things for the benefit of the Circle against templar orthodoxies is a pretty far cry from joining Tevinter. In that case templars are armed thugs for bloodmages.

[In Exile]

Let me explain to you that DA setting is not a XXI century with a secular democracy, Thedas is medieval with very harsh laws. Your modern ideals are out of touch with a setting. People will be executed, and Jowan's execution is totally justified and realistic. Sparing him with a modern humanism is not.

Do you have a proof that mages were made tranquil without their consent in the Ferelden Circle under Greagoir?

Umm... Jowan? He was going to be made tranquil without his consent.